Bioware: FF13 is not an RPG
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By prefacing his statement with an 'OOH, this is gonna cause controversy', it seems like this guy is aware that what he is saying is sort of wrong. I get the point: his view (Biowares view) of RPGs are about choice and consequence of action, not about having numbers dictate how strong you are. This would be great if your choices didn't come down to being a completely loyal wimp, or a total douche-ba...er "renegade" like in Mass Effect. So if Bioware is going to try to reinforce this point that role playing is about making choices in a role and not just leveling up, I'd like to see them make a game first that doesn't involve either leveling up your asshole(renegade) points, or leveling up your wuss(paragon) points.
I'm still confused as to why you seem to be under the impression that the amount of skills to keep track of determines how much of an RPG a game is.Onyx Oblivion said:
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, GTA is indeed more of an RPG than most games. It's certainly not because of stats or skills, though. It's for the same reason FF isn't much of an RPG: You actually get to play your character, rather than just watching a movie that asks you to take care of the combat every now and then.
You don't change classes or raise stats in Final Fantasy XIII, can I watch you try and beat the first boss after you access paradigms and crystarium, because it'll be hilarious if you haven't raised your stats and even more so if you don't change classesMatParker116 said:
We can argue until we're blue in the face...but the fact is...Diablo doesn't have that shit, and it's considered an RPG. Same with MMORPGs. Just suck it up and admit defeat. YOU can call them what YOU want, but you'll be wrong the whole damn time.Hurr Durr Derp said:
The real problem is that both Western RPGs AND Eastern RPGs both kind of suck at trying to be RPGs. Western ones at least try and give the illusion of freedom, but it's all smoke and mirrors. The genre has been stagnant on both sides of the pond for a while now, and everyone seems to be too scared to try and move it forward.
Except for the name for the genre itself. Role Playing Game. Nowhere in that title does it refer to statistics, instead it refers to playing a role, probably of the main character. And by 'playing the role' it presumably means making choices outside of combat, something which FF 13 doesn't let you do.Onyx Oblivion said:
That's a fair point. But you have to keep in mind that DA:O and ME are good examples of where RPGs should go to actually become RPGs in their truest form. They can't see all ends at this current point in time. We may see a game that is a true RPG in our lifetime but due to current limitations that we have on story and such it's a little much to ask a developer to come up with a video game that is capable of changing to actually become a true RPG.rsacks said:
But you are absolutely correct with your stance.
I don't know if this speculation is true at all, but i have a theory that the Japanese word for RPG (that they use for what we call JRPGs) probably has nothing to do with role-playing. If i remember correctly, earlier Japanese games had terrible translations ("All ur base r belong to us", and so on), so its not inconceivable that at the time the west didnt have any games that fit the role of these games. Instead they had D & D which fit the formula of Experience leveling, endlessly changing equipment, and "dungeons" separated from more social areas.
Its just a theory, but i wouldnt be surprised if its completely true. Personally i agree that JRPGs are not RPGs because there is no role being played, but rather a story being told through a game medium (which i personally enjoy very much). I dont agree fully with Bioware though, they seem to be promoting their "choices" a bit much, rather than simply making the point that RPGs need a role plying element to qualify. Choices are important, but not as important as the role you are playing, like creating a character from scratch, the choices simply ensure that you can maintain true to the character you have created in your mind as you guide their actions in the game. So important, and Bioware are making the greatest steps in implementing meaningful choices in games, but its not the main aspect of an RPG.
Its just a theory, but i wouldnt be surprised if its completely true. Personally i agree that JRPGs are not RPGs because there is no role being played, but rather a story being told through a game medium (which i personally enjoy very much). I dont agree fully with Bioware though, they seem to be promoting their "choices" a bit much, rather than simply making the point that RPGs need a role plying element to qualify. Choices are important, but not as important as the role you are playing, like creating a character from scratch, the choices simply ensure that you can maintain true to the character you have created in your mind as you guide their actions in the game. So important, and Bioware are making the greatest steps in implementing meaningful choices in games, but its not the main aspect of an RPG.
Bioware and Bethesda have greatly changed what I and many others expect from RPG's. I enjoy the fact that my choices affect the world around me and the fact that I can choose the path the story takes. The combat I expect to be involving and engaging and instantaneous. FF13 feels confusing, oblique, unintuitive and basically feels like it's telling to fuck off I can handle this at many points.
Why does everyone say that FFXIII is turn-based combat? It's not.
The Final Fantasy games haven't run on a Turn-based system in more than a decade. Since FFVII, and maybe even earlier, the FF series battle system has been an Active-Time Battle system. Watch, you go play FFXIII and don't make any selections in battle. The enemies, and the other characters will continue to fight without you, thus, it is not turn-based.
If it were turn-based, you could take as long as you like in selecting your actions, and the enemies would wait until you were done selecting before making any action.
The Final Fantasy games haven't run on a Turn-based system in more than a decade. Since FFVII, and maybe even earlier, the FF series battle system has been an Active-Time Battle system. Watch, you go play FFXIII and don't make any selections in battle. The enemies, and the other characters will continue to fight without you, thus, it is not turn-based.
If it were turn-based, you could take as long as you like in selecting your actions, and the enemies would wait until you were done selecting before making any action.
I must wonder whether or not the folks at Bioware would consider Persona 3 and 4 to be "RPG's"... Granted you have NO hand in actually creating your character in said games and at the end of the day the story is pretty linear but at the same time you have a lot of freedom to define and control your character through your interactions with others.
Lets just look at mass effect. You level up, you pick your party members who in turn level up. You go through an intresting story and well thats it theres not much in customization or anything if its an rpg its a dumbed down rpg I still love the game forgive me if i got upset but it just bugs me when people hate on one of my favorite games. FF13 you level up improve your characters get a choice of a party they all have 6 roles each that you can level up you even get a choice of weapons that all have there special abilties and even secreat syntheisis abilties you can upgrade your weapons as well. You also even have accsessories that effect everything from health to magic resitance you can also level these up and they have secreat properties when combined with certain other accesories both of wich Mass effect does not have. There both RPGS i'd say Mass effect wait let me reiterate. Mass effect 2 feels like a shooter with RPG elements thats my opinion but in all honesty there both RPGS FF13 and mass effect.Hurr Durr Derp said:
Finally some official dude says what I've been arguing for years. The liberal use of the RPG tag pisses me the hell off. It made me waste money on Borderlands because I actually believed them when they spent so much money telling everyone it was an FPS-RPG. At least they taught me to stop buying games just because they have a marketing department without a conscience.
You play the role in combat. They weren't talking about role playing in the sense that you are, but when RPGs started out, there weren't a lot of games like them, with deep combat mechanics. Most were one trick ponies, with one way to defeat enemies.Geo Da Sponge said: