Bioware forums explode as Mass Effect 3 ending details are leaked. *MINOR SPOILERS*

[Kahunaburger]

Spoiler

All the possible endings are depressing because they are depressing (anticlimaxes like the universe getting destroyed etc) or depressing because they're just bad?

Spoiler

Neither, really. I'd describe the average ending as "pyrrhic victory." People are just mad that they don't end up with their space waifus.

 

[boag]

*This thread contains minor spoilers about the end. I intended it contain none, but people have been posting minor spoilers anyway.*

The Mass Effect 3 ending details have been data mined due to leaks/early copies and the results are not good at all. The majority of the members on the bioware forums have gone up in flames and are outraged. It's not pretty.

How far can Bioware/EA go to completely alienate their fans?

The fallout from Dragon Age 2 was bad enough. Then Mass Effect 3 DLC controversy was even worse. This looks like it could be the killer.

I don't want to include spoilers in this thread, but if you really want to know, go to the Bioware forums and look at the Mass Effect 3 spoiler thread. You can't miss it.

For those who are fine with very vague spoilers, but don't want to know the actual details:

Spoiler: Unspecific spoiler about endings

All of the possible endings are incredibly depressing and the sense of purpose from the two previous games are destroyed.

Whilst not everyone is outraged at this, this could be enough to really hurt Bioware and force them into some strange DLC fix situation. From the looks of things, people aren't going to live this down.

For discussion:

What are your thoughts on Bioware? Why have they had their foot stuck in knee deep controversy for the last few years? Do you think the reaction to the endings will do serious damage?

Spoiler

All the possible endings are depressing because they are depressing (anticlimaxes like the universe getting destroyed etc) or depressing because they're just bad?

Its not that they are all depressing endings, its just that the illusion of choice matters very little in the actions you took, because of a single event that overrides all other consequences in the story appears in all the different endings.

 

[BaronIveagh]

Spoiler

Neither, really. I'd describe the average ending as "pyrrhic victory." People are just mad that they don't end up with their space waifus.

If the info we have is to be believed, all the endings are one of those.

Spoiler

I men, seriously, who wants to play a game where the main character get the choice of 'Commit Genocide of all life in the galaxy' 'Commit Genocide of all synthetic life in the galaxy, but kill your enemies too, while plunging the universe into a new dark age and guaranteeing many characters end up dying horrifically after the game, most likely including Garrus and Tali' or 'Force all living and non-living things into being transformed into cybernetic coleslaw people' (which we all know would never be the canon ending if there's a ME4).

I'm sorry, but my Shep would have been going 'There's got to be another way to do this...'

 

[boag]

Spoiler

Neither, really. I'd describe the average ending as "pyrrhic victory." People are just mad that they don't end up with their space waifus.

If the info we have is to be believed, all the endings are one of those.

Spoiler

I men, seriously, who wants to play a game where the main character get the choice of 'Commit Genocide of all life in the galaxy' 'Commit Genocide of all synthetic life in the galaxy, but kill your enemies too, while plunging the universe into a new dark age and guaranteeing many characters end up dying horrifically after the game, most likely including Garrus and Tali' or 'Force all living and non-living things into being transformed into cybernetic coleslaw people' (which we all know would never be the canon ending if there's a ME4).

I'm sorry, but my Shep would have been going 'There's got to be another way to do this...'

the canon ending will probably end up being

Spoiler

the Controller ending]/spoiler]

Still, if bioware is really going to set a ME sequel in a Universe after the collapse, and a time skip of 1000+ years, then I might give the sequel a shot.

As it stands im afraid they might just make a prequel based around the First Contact war, which I would rather see be adapted as a film.

 

[PingoBlack]

It just feels like closing the book entirely.

If mass relays are really destroyed, there is nothing left. I doubt you can expect any world in ME universe to be self-sufficient enough to remain thriving. Except perhaps the Rachni ...

As far as some people mentioning prequels? Oh please, no more prequels!

If I just think about all the prequels we have seen in last decade, how many are considered a fine example of how you improve a good franchise?
Exactly, none, they are all famous for sucking badly due to lame attempt to manipulate fan's nostalgia nerve. Just think about Star Wars, Star Trek, The Terminator ... Need I go on?

 

[PingoBlack]

Still, if bioware is really going to set a ME sequel in a Universe after the collapse, and a time skip of 1000+ years, then I might give the sequel a shot.

1000 years would be too short for any kind of reasonable story, unless they "invent" relay-less long distance FTL travel.

It's more realistic to use 50.000 years time frame they use in game for galactic cycle ... Perhaps this time even longer, as that cycle was depending on precursor technology being found.
But 50.000 years would mean absolutely no relation is left to the original universe.

Sorry, I'm afraid its either prequel (Gah!) or something completely unlike this universe.

 

[boag]

It just feels like closing the book entirely.

If mass relays are really destroyed, there is nothing left. I doubt you can expect any world in ME universe to be self-sufficient enough to remain thriving. Except perhaps the Rachni ...

As far as some people mentioning prequels? Oh please, no more prequels!

If I just think about all the prequels we have seen in last decade, how many are considered a fine example of how you improve a good franchise?
Exactly, none, they are all famous for sucking badly due to lame attempt to manipulate fan's nostalgia nerve. Just think about Star Wars, Star Trek, The Terminator ... Need I go on?

I agree, I am also sick of prequels, its a cheap way to cash in on an idea by trying to put a new spin on it, but it ultimately just becomes a rehash of the original.

Still, if bioware is really going to set a ME sequel in a Universe after the collapse, and a time skip of 1000+ years, then I might give the sequel a shot.

1000 years would be too short for any kind of reasonable story, unless they "invent" relay-less long distance FTL travel.

It's more realistic to use 50.000 years time frame they use in game for galactic cycle ... Perhaps this time even longer, as that cycle was depending on precursor technology being found.
But 50.000 years would mean absolutely no relation is left to the original universe.

Sorry, I'm afraid its either prequel (Gah!) or something completely unlike this universe.

well, not necessarily 50k, let me provide 2 solutions.

1.- not all of them get wiped out, this would be a bit of a retcon, but with the knowledge that the Citadel Council didnt open up all Mass relays, there could be a loophole where the end event leaves these untouched.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

 

[Rinshan Kaihou]

I dunno. There is no way civilization would be able to recover in 50k years, because there are no Mass Relays anymore =|. It would take 50k years travelling at FTL speeds just to reach halfway across the galaxy.

I hadn't considered that the extranet network was a seperate entity from the relay network, that could be feasible I suppose. But either way, I'm still hoping the day 1 patch includes an actual "good" ending. Honestly I don't care that you know people are dead an all that, because you expect it.But what we weren't expecting was all the Mass Relays to suddenly you know, KABOOM. That kind of throws a wrench the size of VY Canis Majoris into the galactic economy and society.

 

[PingoBlack]

well, not necessarily 50k, let me provide 2 solutions.

1.- not all of them get wiped out, this would be a bit of a retcon, but with the knowledge that the Citadel Council didnt open up all Mass relays, there could be a loophole where the end event leaves these untouched.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

Good point, this can be pulled off by small retcon or just flat out denial that relays were ever destroyed ... Of course, BioWare owns the IP. Dammit!

I'm not sure though about parallel FTL comm system. This would of course solve everything, provided the comm system was not based on relay themselves ... In the case of working FTL comm you only need your Prothean buddy (yay DLC) to survive and help you build a copy of mini-relay, so you can email blueprints under GPL licence.

Sadly, I seriously doubt BioWare are actually interested in it at this point. They quite purposefully decided to destroy everything, prolly cause it was cheap 'n easy.

 

[BaronIveagh]

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

 

[PingoBlack]

And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

After the reason for Liara's return was DLC only?
You better believe it! There is nothing I don't expect BioWare to pull at this point.

Only sad bit is I highly doubt anything they pull would be positive ...

 

[boag]

well, not necessarily 50k, let me provide 2 solutions.

1.- not all of them get wiped out, this would be a bit of a retcon, but with the knowledge that the Citadel Council didnt open up all Mass relays, there could be a loophole where the end event leaves these untouched.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

Good point, this can be pulled off by small retcon or just flat out denial that relays were ever destroyed ... Of course, BioWare owns the IP. Dammit!

I'm not sure though about parallel FTL comm system. This would of course solve everything, provided the comm system was not based on relay themselves ... In the case of working FTL comm you only need your Prothean buddy (yay DLC) to survive and help you build a copy of mini-relay, so you can email blueprints under GPL licence.

Sadly, I seriously doubt BioWare are actually interested in it at this point. They quite purposefully decided to destroy everything, prolly cause it was cheap 'n easy.

Possibly, but its one of the less stupid ways of actually using an in universe mechanic that has been referenced to fix the problem.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

After the reason for Liara's return was DLC only?
You better believe it! There is nothing I don't expect BioWare to pull at this point.

Only sad bit is I highly doubt anything they pull would be positive ...

I wouldnt put much faith in the DLC Prothean, for all intents and purposes the dude is kal Reager 2.0

 

[SoD_Timber_Wolf]

And so the shitstorm begins...

I have no problem with such types of ending, but I can understand people being unhappy about it. I will still play my renegade shepard till the end, I'd just love an ending where you can join the reaper instead...

 

[SajuukKhar]

And the point I see in these threads usually consists of

"I WANT RPGS TO FIT INTO MY NARROW MINDED AND ANTIQUATED DEFINITION BASED OFF OF GAMES FROM AGES PAST THAT I LET MYSELF BELIEVE ARE SO MUCH BETTER THEN THEY EVER ACTUALLY WERE AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME DOESN'T LIKE TRUE RPGS WAAAAAAA"

I don't find that to be remotely helpful.

Those people don't want anything new, they don't want anything innovative, they want Baldur's Gate 3 to be exactly like BG2 was in every way, and anything less is unacceptable.

You must not be reading those threads very carefully, then. When you have time, check them out without bringing your pre-conceptions to the table. They're the closest thing the BSN has to good content.

Lol that opinion was made AFTER I read their threads, not before.

Maybe you should stop bringing your preconceptions to the BSN so you can see how most of this "thoughtful/Intelligent" discussion is mostly BG nostalgia crying.

Its not that they are all depressing endings, its just that the illusion of choice matters very little in the actions you took, because of a single event that overrides all other consequences in the story appears in all the different endings.

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

And people worship those as games with great choice, because getting told everything you did in the last game is being overwritten because the Devs felt like it such a great thing.

1000 years would be too short for any kind of reasonable story, unless they "invent" relay-less long distance FTL travel.

It's more realistic to use 50.000 years time frame they use in game for galactic cycle ... Perhaps this time even longer, as that cycle was depending on precursor technology being found.
But 50.000 years would mean absolutely no relation is left to the original universe.

Sorry, I'm afraid its either prequel (Gah!) or something completely unlike this universe.

Humanity and other races don't just magically lose all the FTL drives they had, and all the research that some had done into the Mass relays.

It wouldn't take anywhere near 50,000 years.

 

[Kahunaburger]

And the point I see in these threads usually consists of

"I WANT RPGS TO FIT INTO MY NARROW MINDED AND ANTIQUATED DEFINITION BASED OFF OF GAMES FROM AGES PAST THAT I LET MYSELF BELIEVE ARE SO MUCH BETTER THEN THEY EVER ACTUALLY WERE AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME DOESN'T LIKE TRUE RPGS WAAAAAAA"

I don't find that to be remotely helpful.

Those people don't want anything new, they don't want anything innovative, they want Baldur's Gate 3 to be exactly like BG2 was in every way, and anything less is unacceptable.

You must not be reading those threads very carefully, then. When you have time, check them out without bringing your pre-conceptions to the table. They're the closest thing the BSN has to good content.

Lol that opinion was made AFTER I read their threads, not before.

Maybe you should stop bringing your preconceptions to the BSN so you can see how most of this "thoughtful/Intelligent" discussion is mostly BG nostalgia crying.

If you had formed your opinion based on what people actually post in those threads, you'd have a different opinion. TBH I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reaction from you in general, so it's not too surprising.

 

[SajuukKhar]

If you had formed your opinion based on what people actually post in those threads, you'd have a different opinion. TBH I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reaction from you in general, so it's not too surprising.

Ahh yes the

"If you had really done what I said you WOULD share my opinion, and the fact that you dont share my opinion shows you must not have" argument.

We have dismissed those claims

Because really that argument doesn't work. It's just as flawed as the "bioware made a optional character DLC that MUST mean they are going to start selling you critical plot points as DLC" argument, aka the slippery slope argument.

Two people can go into something with no preconceived notions of it and come out with two diffrent opinions.

 

[BaronIveagh]

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

Yes, because Baldur's gate didn't have...what was it, 30+ endings, based on if you became the Lord of Murder or not?

Not a fan of NWN, so don't know.


Fallout: and you might notice they decided the ending was SO BAD they retconned it with DLC?

 

[SajuukKhar]

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

Yes, because Baldur's gate didn't have...what was it, 30+ endings, based on if you became the Lord of Murder or not?

Not a fan of NWN, so don't know.


Fallout: and you might notice they decided the ending was SO BAD they retconned it with DLC?

Yes because Bauldr's Gate 2, didn't totally invalidate a good chuck of the possible BG1 endings?

And almost all of Fallout 1's choices were invalidated by Fallout 2, and most of Fallout 2's choises were invalidated by New vegas, and most of New vega's choices will be invalided by some next game.

same with NWN and NWN 2.

 

[BaronIveagh]

Ahh yes the

"If you had really done what I said you WOULD share my opinion, and the fact that you dont share my opinion shows you must not have" argument.

Ah yes, the 'Sajuukkhar is not a troll.' defense.

We have dismissed those claims.


Since you clearly are not bothering to engage brain when I wrote 'Based on if you decide to kill the Lord of Murder'.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Ah yes, the 'Sajuukkhar is not a troll.' defense.

We have dismissed those claims.

Because anyone who doesn't hate everything Bioware does must be a troll right?