Birthers become 'Deathers'
- Thread starter brodie21
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These people are silly. If you want question it don't question whether he is actually dead question whether he was killed years ago and they only just officially retired him.
Pointless sensationalism crossed with a low competency rate.brodie21 said:
Here's how it is. Obama is President, and you're not getting rid of him that easily. Osama is dead unless someone who's actually a terrorist can offer proof otherwise.
Anything else is a waste of time.
There is a certain kind of personality that gravitates toward conspiracy theories. It's really nothing special.
And if anyone in the government came out and said nope he died years ago it would ruin his chancesEwyx said:
I believe that this whole business is going to be a major vote draw, and the timing is kinda funny. However, I don't think there's a conspiracy, a lot of funny coincidences at best. Though I hate that we're not given any information about it, like why was his wife shot in the leg (unarmed), why was Osama killed (unarmed), well that actually makes it into an execution. Why didn't they bring him to court etc.Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
I don't think the American government is capable of orchestrating a good conspiracy.
The way elections work in the US, the whole process begins much much earlier than a few weeks. If they manage to drill this into the minds of the US citizens, even the more conservative parts will think that he's protecting them from terrorists. (Which is bullshit, because terrorism already won... America is in terror... hence, terrorism won)snark said:
Also, if I'm not mistaken, candidates are popping up and already claiming they're going to ru for office.
Oh come on! It's obvious he's still alive! The CIA must've brainwashed his daughter and wife to say those things, right? There's also a secret agreement between Al Qaeda and the American Government to pretend he's dead! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!
Honestly though, it's good to be cautious about what you hear in the media, but this is pushing it. It undoubtedly will bring a ton of good publicity towards the Obama administrator, which is probably why these people are spewing this drivel (there's also the minority that believe it).
I still want to see a body, by the way.
Honestly though, it's good to be cautious about what you hear in the media, but this is pushing it. It undoubtedly will bring a ton of good publicity towards the Obama administrator, which is probably why these people are spewing this drivel (there's also the minority that believe it).
I still want to see a body, by the way.
I, , do hereby solemnly swear and affirm that on the day of 1 May 2011 at GMT, did shoot one Osama Bin-Laden in the face. Furthermore, at GMT, myself along with threw the deceased's sorry ass into the ocean.
well folks, there's your death certificate. or at least as close to one as anybody'll ever get.
well folks, there's your death certificate. or at least as close to one as anybody'll ever get.
The timing is absolutely not funny. The field of Republican candidates in completely chaotic. The impact of Bin Laden can and will fade almost completely by election day. This could have only swayed the election in any large way if it occurred late in the campaign.Ewyx said:
If Obama wanted to secure his reelection, he would have captured Bin Laden, stuffed him in a dark hole for months, and then unveiled him in October.
They have given us information, what are you talking about? You won't get proof, of course.
They shot the wife in the leg because she was an unarmed teenage girl, or they didn't want to risk setting off the suicide vest they thought she might have.
They shot Bin Laden because they thought he was reaching for some of the guns in the room. (We can speculate that they were ordered to kill him if he didn't submit immediately.)
They didn't bring him to court because courts don't handle corpses.
Bingo.
Well, Obama brought this on himself. There is no way of denying that the man and his organization are total idiots in handling this at the very best. It was pretty bloody obvious that people were going to demand proof and to see Bin Ladin's body. People were saying "okay Barry, we believe you, now show us the body" since Day #1, however the very first thing he does is disposes of the body in a way that makes verifying his claims impossible. The only thing the goverment can produce now is paperwork showing DNA testing and photographs of the corpse, both of which would be VERY easy to falsify for a goverment.brodie21 said:
Simply put, we're left to weigh whether this is all a lie, or if the guy is an idiot. I said right from the moment he refused to have the body shown publically and see independant verification outside of goverment control, and then had it "buried at sea" that he had just started the next JFK scandal.
To be honest, I'm leaning towards Osama being dead, the real doubt being whether we had anything to do with it. Simply put I don't think Obama is dumb enough to claim Osama is dead if there was any chance of the guy putting out another video, or a public apperance, where he could call us liars.
The whole thing is just very fishy, especially given the date when Obama decided to make the annoucement, and how this all just happens to be right at the entry to another re-election.
In the end I think it doesn't much matter as far as the issue of Bin Ladin goes, he's probably gone. However we are looking at the defining conspiricy theory of the modern era given the way how this all went down, and no way you can look at this does it reflect positively on Obama and his peope. Anyone who thinks it does, is probably just supporting Obama mindlessly, since there is absolutly no way you can justify his actions.
Tying this to the whole "birther" thing is a joke. Really there is nothing at all ridiculous about calling Obama on being a moron here. Heck, he can't even justify it by talking about respect for Muslim customs or whatever, because this body was a BIG deal, and we have a seperation of church and state, as far as US operations go, any claims to needing to do this for spiritual reasons are meaningless.
That said, when you get down to it, the whole issue over the birth certificate is a pro-Obama ploy used to blow smoke at a serious issue. All these "birthers" who Obama supporters claim wanted his birth certficate basically don't exist, or at least not in any signifigant numbers. Very few people ever questioned whether he had a birth certificate, the issue has entirely revolved around whether he should have received one to begin with.
The issue of Obama and citizenship is based around two things:
1. Whether Obama was born on US Soil and became an "anchor baby" OR if he was born en-route to the US. The issue being that he received a birth certificate upon landing when he should have not received one.
It is a fair point that this comes down to such a close window of time that it shouldn't matter. Though it's also another equally fair point that if it could ever be proven, you can't count him as a citizen base on intent, without also allowing every other immigrant who was trying to drop an anchor baby to also have their kids declared citizens. The laws having to be universal. If Obama wasn't such a high profile guy, we wouldn't be having this entire debate though.
To refute this entire thing requires an official inquiry and examination of the witnesses that claimed to witness the birth. Questions about how they know that the kid was Obama, if they can prove they and Obama's parents were on the same plane, and similar things.
Of course this can be put up against other conspiricies that claim that Obama was never even on a plane going to Hawaii when he was born, but was actually born overseas, and then smuggled into the US where he received documents under the table (which would not be an unprecedented occurance). This theory however is less well travelled, but again it comes down to the Birth Certificate being irrelevent.
2. The issue of whether Obama renounced citizenship to attend school overseas. This meaning that his Birth Certificate might be valid, but when he went overseas he voluntarily relinquished citizenship.
This comes down to some seperate issues. One of them is whether he as a child could have renounced citizenship under our policies, with it being binding. A lot of the defenses being "well it doesn't count, since he was too young", and then other arguements based on his attendance of schools as a young adult where even that defense couldn't be used.
Now, for those that read this far, understand this comes down to the question of "is the guy a liar, or just dumber than a sack of hammers?". A lot of the problems around these issues come from the investigations people are demanding being stonewalled, or outright refused. For example, we have not to my knowlege ever had an official inquiry into the national policies of nations where Obama was schooled combined with checking to see if he was on the rolls. We likewise have never had an official inquiry/case examined based on the witnesses that claim he was born before hitting the US.
Obama and his supporters sidestepping these issues is what keeps them going. It's not a matter of the "Birthers" being stupid, it's a matter of if these guys are so obviously wrong, why we don't just disprove it in an official capacity, rather than having people on both sides fling around accusations and supposition.
It's a similar situation to Osama, in that when you get down to it, it revolves around the stupidity of Obama and his supporters. The issue exists because he created it, and allows it to exist. Of course you blame the supporters because they wind up backing Obama because of his party and/or race, and their dislike of the other political party, and don't hold their cantidate to any standards in defending him.
In short when it comes to Osama, blame Barry for this turning into a conspiricy.
People have become obsessed with a counterculture movement to question the government, the problem is most of them don't understand that it means. Listen to what the government says, question it, perform logic tests on it, and confirm that it is accurate or find actual proof to deny it. Instead they streamline it to the government is always lying and we don't have to prove why because they won't prove why..it just becomes cyclical bullshit.
I heard of Osama's death and I thought oh good they bagged him because if they lie about it and all of the sudden he pops up and says hes not dead BAM there goes all the credibility of the American government. So there is no advantage. Yet for some reason the conspiracy theorists aren't capable of that thought.
And then there's a shit ton more to the arguments, but I'll cut it off here.
I heard of Osama's death and I thought oh good they bagged him because if they lie about it and all of the sudden he pops up and says hes not dead BAM there goes all the credibility of the American government. So there is no advantage. Yet for some reason the conspiracy theorists aren't capable of that thought.
And then there's a shit ton more to the arguments, but I'll cut it off here.