Corporal Punishment: Have we let othe kid's down on discipline?

[b3nn3tt]

I don't think there is ever an excuse to hit your child. There are plenty of ways of letting them know that what they did was wrong without resorting to violence. The child needs to know exactly what it was that they did, or else they'll never understand why it was wrong

The best method that I can think of is to explain what they did wrong and either send them to a naughty step or confiscate something. This way they learn that there is consequence to their actions, and they also learn why their behaviour was wrong

I think that the reason people are even talking about bringing back corporal punishment is because kids seem to run riot, quite possibly due to a lack of consequences for their actions. But there is no need to resort to violence to correct this, kids just need to experience consequences, not violence

 

[Cowabungaa]

But regardless of whether there is reason, they know that the thing they did was wrong becase they was a negative consequence. As a child (aged 5-10) there doesn't have to be insight to the wrongdoing, it's a simple matter of learning right from wrong. It isn't until later years when we begin to question the meanings of 'right' and 'wrong'; because from the ages of 5 to 10 a different set of rules apply.

We can get away with more at such a young age and when entering the teenage years we'll be subject to an ever changing environment within high school. This is the time to employ an educational approach; when right and wrong stop being so black and white and are blurred by moral inclinations.

This is of course entirely my opinion and I don't mean to sound so pushy with it. Of course with corporal punishment being a very divided subject there are going to be varying opinions. This isn't of course accounting for the child's home life. A child that is punished at school and let off at home will grow up confused and that line between right and wrong won't be established.

I'm going off the point here, sorry

Thing is, yeah they know it's wrong, but it's a "because I say so" kind of wrong. I think you should start with the educational reponse as early as possible. Especially young children are like sponges. If you saddle them up with a black and white image of right and wrong from the start I'd say that changing to the more educational way of punishment is going to be less effective and more difficult to execute. I've been there myself. Reforming children is very hard indeed.

But again, even if a child is not responsive to reason that's no excuse for corporal punishment. As I said before, kids are greedy bastards, just take their stuff instead of hitting them.

 

[Blitzwarp]

Beating your children is really only going to teach them one thing: Violence is perfectly acceptable, as long as you were really angry when you did it.

I agree with this.

There's also, in 99.9% of cases, going to be somewhat a discrepancy between 'crime' and 'punishment'. Your child told a lie so you hit them. Your child stamped mud across the carpet so you hit them. Your child didn't do his/her homework so you hit them. None of those cases show a child using violence, but has violence used against them as punishment. Now, if my child smacked me, I'd give them a small smack back to show them how much it hurt, but I'd also make sure to calmly and verbally explain why what they did was wrong, why they should not do it again, and what other measures I would take if they did (revoke television, make them go to bed early, ground them, etc.) IMO taking away some of the things they enjoy after giving them an explanation as to why you're going to do it, is going to teach them a far more valuable lesson that smacking them upside the head.

I hate to be so blatantly judgemental, but I also think parents who use violence as a solution are simply lazy. =/

 

[DarkShadow144]

I never though corporal punishment was right. But, i do think that parents need to be much MUCH harder on their children. Some of the crap kids get away with nowadays (I feel old T.T) I would have gotten my ass literally handed to me on a freaking silver platter.
My parents never hit me but they made it perfectly clear that they could END ME, so I can say I was a pretty good kid
to quote (partialy at least) a comedian (cant remember his name) "You nedd to teach your kids that daddy is just a little bit CRAZIER then they are"

 

[baker80]

You know, that little sentence has kinda made me want to re-think my plan. I suppose it would only teach someone who knew very little that.

I may just have to re-think my parenting plan! I don't want my son thinking violence if acceptable at any time. Hm. I'm a bad parent!

I wouldn't worry yet. "Bad parents" don't actually think about this kind of stuff, they just beat their children because they can and they want to. Just don't mistake violence for discipline. That kind of thing never works out very well, speaking from personal experience, and "might makes right" isn't a very good kind of morality to live by.

 

[RaffB]

When I was a boy I was sent to a Jesuit school. The cane was a standard disciplinary tool.

Read: I got my arse beat.

In that context, I respected my elders and the law... (well, mostly)

Four things:

1. You gained respect of them through fear of pain, which is not the way or reason that someone should be respected.

2. I can guarantee that some sick bastards out there enjoyed what they did to kids with the cane.

3. Most modern kids have a better understanding of human rights and the concept of morals and what they believe is right and wrong, whereas many years ago, if an adult said it was true, you damn well didnt argue

4. With modern kids, all it would take would be one teacher to step out of line with caning or enjoy it a bit too much and you would have a full scale lynch mob on your hands

 

[Lieju]

I respect your opinion, but you've seriously misunderstood my stand point.

Discipline and respect IS seriously laking in modern children. I'm not advocating hitting them, OR, threatening to do so.

I was asking you to clarify your point of view, as, like I said, your opening post is kinda confusing on your stand on corporal punishment.

As, you know

When I was a boy I was sent to a Jesuit school. The cane was a standard disciplinary tool.

Read: I got my arse beat.

In that context, I respected my elders and the law... (well, mostly)

Kids these days are seriously out of control because they know that can't be touched. Not unless the parent/guardian/other is willing to face nearly universal scorn.

sure makes it sound like you think "getting your arse beat" is a necessary part of discipline. But you mention right after that you don't hit your daughter.

 

[ApeShapeDeity]

Beating your children is really only going to teach them one thing: Violence is perfectly acceptable, as long as you were really angry when you did it.

I agree with this.

There's also, in 99.9% of cases, going to be somewhat a discrepancy between 'crime' and 'punishment'. Your child told a lie so you hit them. Your child stamped mud across the carpet so you hit them. Your child didn't do his/her homework so you hit them. None of those cases show a child using violence, but has violence used against them as punishment. Now, if my child smacked me, I'd give them a small smack back to show them how much it hurt, but I'd also make sure to calmly and verbally explain why what they did was wrong, why they should not do it again, and what other measures I would take if they did (revoke television, make them go to bed early, ground them, etc.) IMO taking away some of the things they enjoy after giving them an explanation as to why you're going to do it, is going to teach them a far more valuable lesson that smacking them upside the head.

I hate to be so blatantly judgemental, but I also think parents who use violence as a solution are simply lazy. =/

I can also agree with this. My elder brother and I were both beaten, badly when we we were kids. As a result, he understood physical violence as power. So, guess who got extra beatings...ge

Anyway, long story short, it took a (very) long time for me to get to be ok.

 

[LittleWench1629]

Yes, I think corporal punishment should return. Because teachers need to be able to control their students, they have no power whatsoever nowadays.
I know that my two youngest siblings need it to teach them who?s in charge at school.
When it comes to discipline from parents, I think they should show more backbone in standing up to their kids (my mum especially) I think the rules that ?Super nanny? enforces at home are spot on.
(I?d just like to clarify that I?m 22, married and haven?t lived with my mum since I was 6. Because I am older, I can see what should be done, in my opinion.)
1. If a kid is being a brat, give him/her a warning first. Let them know what they are doing is wrong.
2. If they keep doing it, send them to a naughty circle/room/step. (If this doesn?t work, skip this one and go to step 3)
3. If they continue being a brat, then take something of theirs away. E.g a toy of theirs, TV/console from their room, whatever. And they only get it back if they earn it, like doing well at something at school or good old fashioned chores.
If you start taking their stuff away, they?ll soon ****ing learn.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

But again, even if a child is not responsive to reason that's no excuse for corporal punishment. As I said before, kids are greedy bastards, just take their stuff instead of hitting them.

You know, this is probably a much better method in theory (apologies for missing it the first time). It generates the same negative consequence for a negative action, but does so without violence. However like any kind of punishment would need to be consistent.

On the note of consistence, any punishment needs to be this. Regardless of the type of punishment, corporal or otherwise, if it's consistent the child will learn. I think that this is the culprit in inciting a rebellious youth. As oft played as this old tune is, there are no bad children, only bad parents. Punishing your child for one thing one day but not the next won't teach them anything.

 

[Cowabungaa]

But again, even if a child is not responsive to reason that's no excuse for corporal punishment. As I said before, kids are greedy bastards, just take their stuff instead of hitting them.

You know, this is probably a much better method in theory (apologies for missing it the first time). It generates the same negative consequence for a negative action, but does so without violence. However like any kind of punishment would need to be consistent.

On the note of consistence, any punishment needs to be this. Regardless of the type of punishment, corporal or otherwise, if it's consistent the child will learn. I think that this is the culprit in inciting a rebellious youth. As oft played as this old tune is, there are no bad children, only bad parents. Punishing your child for one thing one day but not the next won't teach them anything.

Oh yes, very true. I think that the lack of consistency in parents is, in the big picture, a much more widespread and bigger problem than the kind of parents who insist that their children are perfect little wonders. Parents who start off on the right track but are so easily swayed to stray. And indeed, a lack of discipline in parents will lead to a lack of discipline in their children.

 

[OniaPL]

I think that we don't need to beat kids over small matters, but we should make it clear that some actions deserve punishment. We need to think over the whole punishment thing, a child can easily shrug off grounding or similar punishments.. I think that the fear of violence would be enough. For example, when I was 6, my father told me that he would break my arms if I would ever attack anyone without a valid reason (such as self-defense or protecting someone), and up to this day I have never attacked anyone without such a reason. Because I know he would have done it.

I cannot support someone who beats their kids senseless, but I think that we have forgotten that violence is necessary at times. We have nowadays a massive urge to be civilized humans, but it might have gone a bit overboard. For example, as a kid I was punished at school for defending myself. I was told that I should have escaped my attacker and run to tell the teacher. I never understood why I should have done that.

The problem with corporal punishment is: what amount of punishment is acceptable?

 

[katsumoto03]

Don't go around beating kids, but people need to stop coddling them all the time. It turns them into little pricks who think they can do no wrong.

 

[Bobbity]

I don't believe in beating children, whacking them with rulers or any of the crazy stuff that used to happen, but if a child's misbehaving and reason isn't working (Although it never does ) Then it's perfectly acceptable to smack them.

The distinction, however, that some people can't seem to comprehend, is that it should never be done in anger. The point of smacking a child is to humiliate or shame them, to the point where they'll associate those emotions with the action that earned the smack in the first place.

Smacking a child in anger, or as a means of expressing frustration is totally wrong, however. That's where the previous generations went wrong. They tried to use pain as the means of teaching a child. Not only is this wrong, it's also just as likely to make the kid act in a rebellious manner.

Anyways, that's just my take on it.

 

[ApeShapeDeity]

A NOTE IN FAIRNESS:

I am not absoulutely against corporal punishment. RESPONSIBILTY and LOVE are the ONLY circumstances under which it it at all permissable, in my view.

My background in psych, has informed me. IF you feel the need to employ this practice, one must do so calmly, and ONLY with very young children. This does NOT include beatings.

IF you feel that a smack for your kid is what's needed, I don't feel/think that I have the right to demonoise you, just because my experience was bad.

BUT... respect your children! I beleive in mutual respect, continually re-enfoced through repocussion, reward and respect is (my) chosen method.

FYI: Yes, it's working well. (In my case)

 

[Verlander]

I put it to you, does corporal punishment need a return to form? If not, why not?

No, it does not.
I know from experiance that such punishment only made me more hateful and independant with a strong desire to fight the "system".

This one hundred percent.

The idea that "children are running wild" is a complete fallacy, created by adults who either weren't paying attention, or have a rose tinted view of their own childhood. There was always bullying, there was always unfairness. Gangs aren't something new. Divisions between children based on things like music is nothing new. If corporal punishment had worked, those things wouldn't have previously existed. The only thing that's changed is children aren't being physically hurt by stronger, more intimidating adults

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

No just no, any sort of violence against children are wrong. Just so wrong.

Violence expresses itself when you are out of words, and if you´re out of words with a kid.. well then, i hate to say it, get smarter.

Ages 1-9, I agree with you. 10-14? Some need it. I have these hateful tweens in my neighborhood throwing rocks at strangers and laughing because we can't do anything about it. Some older kids need a lesson in respect. Especially if their parents don't care/defend the behavior/are generally incompetent. I guess I'm saying it is okay in secondary school. I wouldn't have had to worry. Actually learning from/respecting your elders does wonders.

 

[Carboncrown]

Well, for me corporal punishment really do any harm, because it was within acceptable boundaries(and those are really fucking low for me) but it also didn't do any good. All I remember is being angry at my dad for doing that(There's one time I remembar waguely when I got my mouth washed with soap ). Thinking back I just think he was stupid for thinking that would do any good, because... well, it didn't.

Another funny fact, the only kid in our school that I know got actual corporal punishment(he got his hair pulled) was the worst behaving kid in our class... Maybe coincidence, maybe not.

To put it bluntly, if you now do something wrong and your dad/boss/teacher comes and *****-slaps you, how does that make you feel? Yes it really is that simple.

Parentings not that complicated reward good behaviour, and get upset over bad, but if you don't know how to punish a child without using(and thus approving) violence, you really are fucking stupid.