Damn Whale wars....
- Thread starter Ninonybox_v1legacy
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Ok you don't like them. I agree they have mixed results in stopping the Japanese from whaling.ninonybox360 said:
Ok I don't know what being a Vegan has to do with not liking the Japanese trying to exploit an international law about Whaling.ninonybox360 said:
Yes they probably do, but I would place that on the fact that their being filmed and if they want to continue to be filmed, theatrics are sometimes "need"(I use that term very loosely, obviously the don't need to be dramatic but it keeps the ratings high so they might feel that it should be done). I'm not excusing them, I'm just trying to consider why they might act the way they do. Also this being a political matter, dramatics are nothing new when people are trying to draw attention to their side/cause and gain support from the general public.ninonybox360 said:
I see your point that the whale is already dead, so they didn't save the animal. However, think about, if the Japanese whalers have to constantly fight the Sea Shepard to kill a whale body, and only come back empty handed no matter how much money and time they put into it, they will lose modivation to continue their activities. They would be further demoralized if every time they actually did win and managed to kill the whale, the carcass was dropped into the sea, showing them that in the end, the whalers just can't win even if they do manage to kill the whales. By actually killing and obtaining the carcass, it could actually motivate the whalers and give them hope that they could capture more dead whales.ninonybox360 said:
True, but people can directly increase the population of pigs, while (to my knowledge) whales can't have their population directly increased by human efforts, which means that if humans were to hunt/kill pigs to almost extinction, theoretically we could bring them back but as of right now (again to my limited knowledge) humans could not directly increase the whale population. Also, I feel that I would be wrong to ignore the fact that because of culture, some people(presumably people from Western culture) don't feel the same way about pigs as they do about whales.ninonybox360 said:
I'm sorry but this really bothers me, I understand that you wouldn't give animals(regardless of whether humans eat them or not) all of the same rights that you would give humans(I don't think people are asking for cows to be allowed to attend college, vote for who is the next president/prime minister,ect.)but I would say that animals have the right to have some of the same rights that are mentioned in the United Nations Declaration, like the right to not be tortured(which means that this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_bear] should not be happening), the right to not experience genocide(or for animals you might call this extinction), and the right to have land(which means that humans can't/shouldn't take all the land on this planet away from animals and build cities/towns/ect.).ninonybox360 said:
Except we are not in a situation where it is Humans versus Whales, so we don't need to say "goodbye whales". Also as a more "self aware" and a "smart[er]" animal, we should try to act as such and not resort to such primitive attitudes such as "we kill them or they kill us", we are humans, we are better than such behavior. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to state that we can't eat meat, just that we shouldn't consume or hunt(seeninonybox360 said:
odo, Thylacine) other animals at the expense of the possibility of them existing in the future. That was stupid, no doubt.ninonybox360 said:
Sources pleaseninonybox360 said:
Eh, that shouldn't make you dislike the Sea Shepard people, racist would just use this issue as a way to shadow their own hate. I doubt that most of these racist actually care about the whales and that if the Sea Shepard was to start going after some of the North European countries that partake in whaling, you would most likely not hear from these people who are making racist comments.ninonybox360 said:
I'm sorry but if "being a dick" is required so that the Japanese follow the international laws and stop trying to exploit loop holes, then I don't mind the Sea Shepard being "dicks".ninonybox360 said:
I don't agree with everything they do, but I agree that with there feelings that the Japanese should stop trying to lie about there hunting of whales for food, because regardless of whether the Sea Shepard is acting right, the Japanese are trying to exploit international laws to hunts whales.ninonybox360 said:
It doesn't matter whether or not the animal is endangered, the international laws state that people are not to hunt them for things like food, only for scientific research. The Japanese are exploiting the science loophole to cloak their hunting as a form of "scientific research". They are violating international laws and should stop what their doing.fenrizz said:
Fuck me the typos in the opening post of this thread are ... gah ... it's like someone put a thousand whales in front of a thousand keyboards. Big keyboards.
On another point ... I'm probably one of the few people here who have actually eaten whale. It's kinda meh. Tried it in a curry, in a tin (no tuna was hurt in the capture of this whale meat!), and I remember in Japan a friend served me some 'whale bacon' - it's basically little strips of whale blubber that have been fermented somewhat. Imagine a strip of regular bacon, in saran wrap, and placed on your dashboard in summer and park in the sun for 2-3 days. Then open that baby up and gobble gobble.
Yep. It's as foul as it sounds. Whale meat is hardly eaten at all any more in Japan, and the younger generation has almost zero interest in it - they'll try it, but like sheep's brains it's something you try to say 'yup I've tried it'. It's a status food, much like fugu (which can be listed as 'bland' or 'subtle', depending on how pretentious the person you ask is).
But anyway, long story short, I don't care any more about the whales than I do any other animal (ie not at all), but an additional issue is that tourism operators and small coastal towns in Australia, for example, rely upon the whales for a portion of their yearly income.
No whales = less visitors = less business
Whaling for Japan is economically insignificant in the scheme of things, but there are still hundreds (possibly thousands) who would be affected by its discontinuance as well.
The issue must be resolved as an economic/resources issue, not as a cultural vs ethical issue, because tree hugging hippies and stubborn Japanese connoisuers will never back down because to them there is no 'middle ground'. Negotiation only works when both sides are willing to compromise - and in this case, neither are. In support of the Japanese, they have already compromised quite significantly.
On another point ... I'm probably one of the few people here who have actually eaten whale. It's kinda meh. Tried it in a curry, in a tin (no tuna was hurt in the capture of this whale meat!), and I remember in Japan a friend served me some 'whale bacon' - it's basically little strips of whale blubber that have been fermented somewhat. Imagine a strip of regular bacon, in saran wrap, and placed on your dashboard in summer and park in the sun for 2-3 days. Then open that baby up and gobble gobble.
Yep. It's as foul as it sounds. Whale meat is hardly eaten at all any more in Japan, and the younger generation has almost zero interest in it - they'll try it, but like sheep's brains it's something you try to say 'yup I've tried it'. It's a status food, much like fugu (which can be listed as 'bland' or 'subtle', depending on how pretentious the person you ask is).
But anyway, long story short, I don't care any more about the whales than I do any other animal (ie not at all), but an additional issue is that tourism operators and small coastal towns in Australia, for example, rely upon the whales for a portion of their yearly income.
No whales = less visitors = less business
Whaling for Japan is economically insignificant in the scheme of things, but there are still hundreds (possibly thousands) who would be affected by its discontinuance as well.
The issue must be resolved as an economic/resources issue, not as a cultural vs ethical issue, because tree hugging hippies and stubborn Japanese connoisuers will never back down because to them there is no 'middle ground'. Negotiation only works when both sides are willing to compromise - and in this case, neither are. In support of the Japanese, they have already compromised quite significantly.
Not to pry but you say it must be resolved as economic issue not as an ethical issue. While I agree with this couldn't it be resolved as an ecological issue? One of the reasons people are trying to stop shark fishing isn't because sharks are cool and we should let them live but because removing an apex predator messes up ecosystems pretty hard and it will come back to bite us in the ass. Whales are the main predator of plankton and krill so there is plenty of negative possibilities concerning the environment.uzo said:
Volf99 said:
Mmm... yeah, see. The problem with this opinion is that, no matter how you try to spin it... they aren't actually violating any laws. Everything they're doing is allowed by the IWC's regulations. Yep, it's a pretty glaring loophole all right. No arguing against that. Is it underhanded? Immoral? Deviously crafty? Maybe so.
It's also completely legal.
Sea Shepard, you're doing it wrong.
I don't like whaling too. But solving problems with violence and intimidation sets a precedence. Yes, animals must be protected from over-killing and must be killed for food in the fastest and painless way possible. But the means do not justify the ends.
What depresses me is that while the idea is noble to seek an end to whaling, there is no constructive attempt to figure out what to do with those put out of jobs. Some of the men, I dare to say all of them, have been in the business and know no other job skills. Are we to stop them from bringing the bacon home, leave them to their fate and declare victory? One example is that of sharking - cutting off the fins and leaving the shark to die. That's wrong, and I rather eat fake shark fin for New Years. But sometimes those who do sharking are dirt poor and have no other skills to earn money for the family. I saw an exhibition on sharks at the Science Center and most of these sharkers are from Somolia or places where there is rampant sea piracy. These are dirt poor people.
We are more than willing to bring the wrath of God on those who would stop us from earning money we need. Let's put ourselves in these peoples' shoes. What Sea Shepard is doing treats only the surface. If we can show these guys a better alternative for work, only than do we have a higher moral ground to say "Stop that".
Failing that, let's just beat the crap out of each other. That's what I get from some postings.
I don't like whaling too. But solving problems with violence and intimidation sets a precedence. Yes, animals must be protected from over-killing and must be killed for food in the fastest and painless way possible. But the means do not justify the ends.
What depresses me is that while the idea is noble to seek an end to whaling, there is no constructive attempt to figure out what to do with those put out of jobs. Some of the men, I dare to say all of them, have been in the business and know no other job skills. Are we to stop them from bringing the bacon home, leave them to their fate and declare victory? One example is that of sharking - cutting off the fins and leaving the shark to die. That's wrong, and I rather eat fake shark fin for New Years. But sometimes those who do sharking are dirt poor and have no other skills to earn money for the family. I saw an exhibition on sharks at the Science Center and most of these sharkers are from Somolia or places where there is rampant sea piracy. These are dirt poor people.
We are more than willing to bring the wrath of God on those who would stop us from earning money we need. Let's put ourselves in these peoples' shoes. What Sea Shepard is doing treats only the surface. If we can show these guys a better alternative for work, only than do we have a higher moral ground to say "Stop that".
Failing that, let's just beat the crap out of each other. That's what I get from some postings.
Yeah, I'll agree that the show is kinda silly. Though, many of your criticisms against the show are really criticisms against the Sea Shepard Society, and are rather poorly thought out ones at that.
Of course, the downside to this industry is that it is leading a number of species which are already endangered by other human activities into extinction. Which is why industrial whaling was outlawed in 1985. In the face of a dwindling population of highly intelligent and social wild animals due to human hunting and pollution, the nations of the world joined together to effectively ban large-scale whale hunting. The reason why Sea Shepard exists is because whaling companies (overwhelmingly of Japanese origin) use legal loopholes to continue unbated whale hunting, while the international community watches on.
They aren't supposed to be acting normally. The reason they are acting out is to make a scene and get their cause out there. Not exactly tasteful, but it gets the point across.ninonybox360 said:
The ideology is basically "wasting" one whale, to prevent the needless deaths of others in the future. As others have stated, if this one whale is wasted, then the company doing the whaling is unable to profit off of it, and are thereby deterred from trying to kill more whales in the future.ninonybox360 said:
Implying that whaling is the one thing that stands between humanity's survival and sure destruction. Get over that idea. Whaling, overwhelmingly the whaling that goes on today, is a luxury, propagated mainly for rich people. Whale oil has had no real legitimacy as a fuel since the invention of kerosene, and the last time that whale meat was legitimately needed to feed people was for a couple years after World War II (which is in fact where the fashion of eating whale meat comes from.)ninonybox360 said:
Of course, the downside to this industry is that it is leading a number of species which are already endangered by other human activities into extinction. Which is why industrial whaling was outlawed in 1985. In the face of a dwindling population of highly intelligent and social wild animals due to human hunting and pollution, the nations of the world joined together to effectively ban large-scale whale hunting. The reason why Sea Shepard exists is because whaling companies (overwhelmingly of Japanese origin) use legal loopholes to continue unbated whale hunting, while the international community watches on.
Mate, I live in a town not far from Warrnambool in western victoria. the whales that show up every year are Southern Right whales, which are not hunted by the Japanese. So that point isn't really valid to me.uzo said:
The only way this stupid whale war ends is when someone on either side gets killed. It'll likely be one of the Sea Shepherd people who doesn't know shit about sailing.
Well, most (if not what I believe to be all,) of the operations which Sea Shepard go after is commercial whaling; sizeable companies working to put whale meat on the tables of high-end restaurants.Akimoto said:
I agree with you in part, at least that Sea Shepard should definitely be part of a bigger picture. The issue should turn from "how do we stop the illegal commercial overhunting of whales" to a much broader "how do we adapt the unbalanced world today to be in relative harmony with the environment we live in while providing security for all?" Shark finning in Somalia likely has the same roots as the piracy and insurgency which plague the country. Whaling is one of those industries that we'll have to change in the face of a fragile earth, in the same way that we'll have to change the industry of coal mining or materials refining. Sure, those changes will probably lead to economic hardship and job loss; but they will also provide the opportunity for new industries to take their place, and for society to be a little better in line with the rest of the earth.
Also note that whale stocks were depleting rapidly before the 1985 moratorium. Had commercial whaling been allowed to continue, the crash would eventually have not only shocked the people dependent on the whaling industry for income, but much more direly, indigenous people to whom whaling is both an old cultural tradition, and who would find themselves with no possible source of income if whale stocks depleted. As an example, look at what happened in the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. After centuries of overfishing, fish stocks simply disappeared. And the economy of Newfoundland hasn't recovered in the 2-3 decades since, and the fishing fleets which frequented the Grand Banks found themselves out of fishing grounds which they had depended on.
Lying about the conduct and activities of a company and your employees is legal? Also I didn't realize it was legal to falsify company documents to show that the whaling companies had to kill the animals.Samechiel said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.209045-I-just-bought-whale-meat-then-I-cooked-it-AND-THEN-I-ATE-IT-Shock?page=1Heimir said:
sorry but what. People eat whales
I'll admit, I know most of the arguments for and against the hunting of whales (for 'research' purposes), and I don't really care. That's for other people to care about. Like the guys on whale wars. Next, I stopped supporting Sea Shepard not long after we all figured that they were completely useless at doing anything about it.
What I do care about is that it's not the Australian Navy moving in and impounding those bloody whaling ships. Our bloody waters, and as long as they're there, our bloody whales.
And hey, if modern media has taught us anything it's military intervention makes for far more interesting tv than peaceful protesting.
What I do care about is that it's not the Australian Navy moving in and impounding those bloody whaling ships. Our bloody waters, and as long as they're there, our bloody whales.
And hey, if modern media has taught us anything it's military intervention makes for far more interesting tv than peaceful protesting.
