DmC looks great, what's with all the hate?

Recommended Videos

Deshin

New member
Aug 31, 2010
442
0
0
Because they took Dante and turned him into a snivelling little teen angst emo prick; that's why. If they fast forwarded the series like 200 years in the future and demonkind is rampaging the earth and we have Dante looking like he's in his late 40s but all buff and muscly and demonic and shit (think Nier) then fans would be going "fuck yeah".

They already *did* younger Dante with DMC3, now they're going Inception style stupid trying to tell an origin story they just totally pulled out of their ass that breaks canon that no one asked for.

THAT is why fans are angry, it's not just because "herp derp change is bad", it's because it's a negative change. Sure the GAMEPLAY looks great and for people just wanting to enjoy a game it'll be a blast but a lot of people are pissed they've more or less retconned a beloved character that didn't need retconning.
 

Shadowstar38

New member
Jul 20, 2011
2,204
0
0
Draech said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Draech said:
That isn't healthy. That is whining until you get your way. Feedback stops once feedback has been given. Not until acted upon.
Ah. I wanted to clarify, sense you went and wrote my arguments off as fanboy outrage from the get go.
A large part of your argument is just that thou. look at it. you talk about how the developer doesn't respect the source material.
The consensus is, what they did with the source material is worse than what it originally was.

I expressed how I felt about the game, as well as the feelings of those I've seen on forums that were not the whiners.

Dismissing my opinion as whining came off as unwilling to see another viewpoint.
 

RedTyger

New member
Aug 9, 2012
11
0
0
Draech said:
That is still an argument from authority. It is still a logical fallacy. You are still going he is right because of who he is. Not because of what he is saying. That is an argument from authority. To make an argument dependent on who says it is an argument from authority.

And it is what the original quote was all about. And since you cant seem to see this logical fallacy we cannot see eye to eye.

I don't think that you understand Argument from Authority either. I am not using him as an authority by any measure. Since no one has played the game, no one could be considered an authority. In my analogy, however, the fantasy chef would be considered an authority. I think you believe argument from authority is always fallacious. It isn't.
 

Pearwood

New member
Mar 24, 2010
1,929
0
0
Draech said:
The thing is the only complaints I have talked about are the ones that are based in "you should pander more to the original fans". By all means you can have opinions of "it is clunky" "I dont like the artstyle" and even "I dont like the new Dante", but it is when people base it in "It should be like the last one" I have a problem. A game will stand and fall on its own merits. If this game fails it should fails because it is bad. Not because it isn't enough like the last one.
I know but they're the ones who decided to slap the Devil May Cry name on it. That name has incredibly high expectations attached to it, not helped at all by the fact that the most popular games are the two most recent ones so the comparison is inevitable.

Complaints like it running at 30 FPS and the cutscene banter just being reduced to "Fuck you" are totally valid, even more so given that they're asking people to compare them to a series known for incredibly reactive and smooth gameplay and camp, over the top PG-13 banter.
 

Kyle Donovan

New member
Dec 10, 2011
123
0
0
I have no idea. In 2001, Dante was a hipster ****. Now when we look back at him, he's more of a badass jerk. I think the new design helps make Dante a hipster **** for the modern age, so I kind of like it actually
 

Pearwood

New member
Mar 24, 2010
1,929
0
0
I just checked for more information on DmC's combat system and got a combo list and a list of FAQs. Thought it was worth mentioning since it's still a quite recent article and is worth a read if you're going on assumptions. Spoiler hides a huge wall of text.

After playing E3's demo I managed to jot down the available amount of specials, weapon combinations and different changes/additions to the game play mechanic presented in this build.

Starting with Dante's move list:

- = Pause

Rebellion

Δ,Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y,Y,Y : Standard 4 hit Slash; it is possible to quickly cancel to another move after the first 3.

Δ,Δ - Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y - Y,Y,Y :
*Air* Δ,Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y,Y,Y : Similar to Nero's.
Δ,Δ - Δ,Δ : Third swipe resembles much to Nero's "Roulette", it carries the enemy back to the air.
Drive: Δ/Y charge(hold until glows) follow up with extra Δ,Δ or Y,Y(Optional) Similar to DMC4 where Dante can throw two extra sonicbooms. Cancel is possible after first sonicboom.
Stinger : Double tap foward on the joy stick and press Δ/Y. Mashing the button will follow-up a Million Stab but now called "Trillion Stab" and a final short-stinger. Cancel is possible after initial Stinger and Trillion Stab.
High Time: O/B : The classic launcher. Press once to execute a regular launch, hold to launch Dante into the air as well.
*Air*Helm Breaker: O/B : Classic Helmet Breaker.


Angel Mode Rebellion (Osiris)

To activate the Angel Mode, it is required to hold L2 or LT in order to execute the presented moves/specials.

Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y,Y : Osiris standard. Cancel possible anytime during combo.
Δ,Δ - Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y - Y,Y,Y : Third press executes a 2-hit animation where Dante swings it like nun-chucks from right arm to left. Fourth and fifth work like overhead propellers. Cancel possible after third press.
*Air* Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y,Y
Δ,Δ - Δ Δ
Streak: Double tap foward on the joy stick and press Δ/Y - similar to Nero's "Streak".
Prop: O/B then optional O/B follow-up: Classic Swordmaster Prop Shredder but includes a reverse counter-clockwise Prop Shredder. Cancel possible after first Prop.*Air* Rake : O/B : It allows Dante to drag the aerial target back in front of Dante - resetting the amount of possible combos.
Angel evade (not official name): Double tab the Evade button to trigger a teleport similar to Nero's Table Hopper except it teleports Dante behind the auto locked target. It resembles closer to Vergil's Air Trick except the distance of the teleport is much smaller and invincibility frames are granted when Dante disappears/after the white smoke appears. Executable in the air.
Air Dash: X/A : Grants Dante the ability to Dash in the air. This is nowhere similar to Trickster's Dash. There are no invincible frames and it is possible to quickly stop the dash by letting go.
Angel Lift : □/X optional □/X : Dante latches onto target then drags himself towards target and allows a extra follow up punch/uppercut.

Demon Mode Rebellion (Arbiter)
To activate the Devil Mode, it is required to hold R2 or RT in order to execute the presented moves/specials.
Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y,Y : Standard heavy and slow 3 hit combo. Cancel possible after first and second hit.
Δ,Δ - Δ or Y,Y - Y : Third hit is an over head lumberjack hit. It also sends a limited-distance shockwave towards the target. Cancel possible after first and second hit.
Flush : Double tap foward on the joy stick and press Δ/Y. Dante throws Arbiter's metal blade to his target. The sonicboom itself seems to have no distance limit.
Tremor: O/B: An overhead hit that launches the target up into the air.
*Air* Δ/Y : Works similarly to Flush except performed in the air.
O/B : An Arbiter version of Helmet Breaker except it contains armor breaking properties.
Demon Evade: Double tab the Evade button to trigger a teleport - away from the target's attack and slows down time for a second. This maneuver requires proper timing. It was said to be able to harm targets[Needs confirmation].
Demon Pull: □/X optional □/X : Dante grabs the traget towrds him and a follow up kick - similar to DMC3's "thrust kick". It can be used to tear an enemy's shield away.
General
Δ/Y - Attack
□/X - E&I: General shooting.
O/B - Special
X/A - Jump
L1/R1 LB/RB - Evade button; grants easy use if player needs an adjacent evade button and if added with a direction, Dante can evade in the air.
L2(Hold) - Angel Mode
R2(Hold) - Demon Mode
Left Analog - Movement
Right Analog - Camera
L3 + R3 Simultaneously- Devil Trigger


***Here are some FAQ's from this and the original Gameplay Discussion thread; Sparda_Zero, StuntXL, Michael's questions sum up mostly everything you need to know.

Are there any change with the Stylish Meter?
The Stylish Meter is much lenient this time around - sticking much closely to DMC4 but it does retain the DMC3 drop checkpoints. For example Dante gets hit with an S rank, it will drop to B rather completely down. The points seem to be rewarded for longer airtime as well and as you all know or should, there is no taunt!

How does Parrying work and how does it effect the gameplay?

Parrying requires absolute timing. It works almost like a perfect Royal Guard block only that you take no damage and it stuns your target. So far, it works on every demon but the amount of Stylish points aren't as great.
What you have to do is attack right at the moment of your target's attack - triggering a stun animation. It is possible to parry with all the Osiris/Arbiter but Rebellion is the best choice considering the first swipe is the quickest amongst the three. The best way to parry is attack towards the incoming danger so it often requires the use of the analog. Parrying with Arbiter is a challenge but possible. Air parrying works too.

How responsive are the controls?

From movement to attack, every input worked like a charm. A new feature added was the controller's vibrating notification that signal pause combos the green light. So if you couldn't ever, though I doubt, pull off Dante's classic Million Stab combo : O,O-O, the controller actually vibrates during a possible pause. It also vibrates whenever a charge attack reached its limit.

A major issue was the double directional taps for Stinger and the generic counterparts. If you plan to use Stinger like you use to dream again because chances are that you may miss the second analog input because of a worn stick. The speed of the execution is much slower as well. Since that was the only double analog input special, I would hate to imagine any other specials that would require me to constantly abuse the stick.


Did they really manage to nail 60 FPS feel through 30 instead?

Not exactly. Dominic did tell me that once you reached S+ rank, the gameplay will speed up approximately 10%. Although this is subject to change, I didn't feel any difficulty change nor rush when it did occur. The "Secret Ingredient" boss fight felt the same and it was pretty difficult trying to keep the demons alive - even using nothing but Rebellion and Osiris just to test out the speed change, so having 1 or 2 enemies on screen after getting to that rank wouldn't exactly allow me to give a proper judgement. Regardless, the easiness of the game in terms of FPS still stick closely to DMC4...

Was your experienced tarnished by the lack of a lock-on?

The auto lock on is terrible... I found myself killing off a Warrior Drone during a series of 2-hit animation combos with Osiris,(The final three) combo B Δ,Δ - Δ,Δ,Δ or Y,Y - Y,Y,Y, and I was a sitting duck while thinking I could move Dante towards another Drone behind me as he finishes the final hits. This auto lock on may still be in development but if it works anywhere like Arkham Asylum/City's auto mechanic, then that would be fantastic.

Another point to add is that there are also aerial demons that shoot projectiles, the Stingers - fetus looking fallen angels. Their crossbows have a laser that blink faster every second and once it begins to solidify, you dodge. It can be interrupted by attacking them so it is no doubt their a priority if S/SS/SSS ranks are your goal but when there's a hoard of demons I wasn't able to load them with E&I or a Stinger for a zoning distance. The Angel Pull/Demon Grab worked fine but when demons that tend to charge up a special, similarly to those with chainsaws in the "Public Enemy" demo, this will become a nuisance.

How do the aim with the guns work?

As far as I can tell, the E3 demo emphasizes only on Rebellion, Osiris and Arbiter but they respond complementary with the auto lock-on because he tends to shoot the one closest or the closest in the direction Dante is facing. E&I are practically useless in the presented build.

You say it was too easy due to the dodge, do you reckon if it was on a higher difficulty the dodge would still be as broken?

No joke the invincibility frames on the ground evade is perhaps the easiest form of evasion maneuver and places itself to be the most broken mechanic I've seen out of the entire franchise. Dante is completely invincible once you press the evade button and I have escaped through all of the given demons and boss' moves(except for the regurgitation).

It is much quicker and extends longer than Trickster's Dash or Bayonetta's evade... The recovery time is quicker than all forms of evade and air evade hardly has an invincibility frames so your better off jumping or ground evading than air evading. Evading doesn't reward anything other the chance to keep your rank but it works so well.

This makes Air Dash completely useless during combat other than escaping a hoard of enemies or getting to safe ground but what this does say is Demon evade is worthless when you can quickly ground evade behind the target to execute quicker attacks. So even if the difficulty is ramped up a bit it doesn't change the fact that the evade button will remain the same but that doesn't take account of increased enemy movement. If enemy speed increases, they have a greater chance of hitting after the recovery animation but as far as it goes the ground evade is the best way to dodge.

Are there any differences in Dante's DT this time around?

The noticeable changes does not include the hair but rather the speed rate of health regeneration, more damage, upon activation will launch every demon up into the air and a hige emphasis in staying airborne. The regeneration rate will prove more useful to players that love to take pain because Dante will recover the exact amount, almost if not all, of stored DT. So it can be basically treated as a spare health bar/pack.

The launched opponents up will stun them airborne/more vulnerable for continuous (air)combos as long as DT remains activated. Upon activation will not injure the demons/DT burst(not special).

DT has a huge set of invincibility frames so it cannot be interrupted and if activated at a precise moment, it can be used to evade attacks.

There's a weird characteristic about the DT this time and it does deplete much quicker as you are on the ground; Tameem confirmed in the Stream. So the idea is to, sadly, stay in the air.

The trade off is that your attacks become 2x stronger and combat speeds up.

It is not known if the change in difficulty will effect the recovery rate at this point of given build.


**Every gameplay mechanic is still subject to change but that doesn't mean it will drastically affect discussion. Please keep the thread free of trolling, flaming, roaming off topic, picture responses unless relating to the topic and especially negative posts that do not have a substantial backbone. This is to keep the easy flow of ideas and gameplay/movelist discussions.
 

RedTyger

New member
Aug 9, 2012
11
0
0
Draech said:
RedTyger said:
Draech said:
That is still an argument from authority. It is still a logical fallacy. You are still going he is right because of who he is. Not because of what he is saying. That is an argument from authority. To make an argument dependent on who says it is an argument from authority.

And it is what the original quote was all about. And since you cant seem to see this logical fallacy we cannot see eye to eye.

I don't think that you understand Argument from Authority either. I am not using him as an authority by any measure. Since no one has played the game, no one could be considered an authority. In my analogy, however, the fantasy chef would be considered an authority. I think you believe argument from authority is always fallacious. It isn't.
"I think you believe argument from authority is always fallacious. It isn't."

Ok.... that is just wrong.

And to think you have the balls to lecture anyone. Sorry if your argument is dependent on who says it then your argument is an argument from authority.

Things are right or wrong regardless of who says it. In other words. An argument from authority is logical fallacy.

I have already corrected you on the straw man.

The one of us who should be reading up isn't me.

When did you correct me on straw man? Because you didn't. Might want to try that before you start trying to throw stones.

An argument from authority is only a fallacy when the person isn't an authority, or when there isn't an consensus.

Argument from authority doesn't even apply to my analogy, since in the analogy doesn't assume the chef is correct. Again. His opinion.

Its not argument from authority. Its considering expertise. Which is something you're implying no one should do.


You're trying to throw around concepts, when you don't even know what they mean.
 

Rariow

New member
Nov 1, 2011
342
0
0
Simple. You ever hear the internet rage equation? Probably not, I'm making it up as it goes, but still:

Internet + Change = Rage.

Look at every update of the YouTube interface, or hell, even redesigns of the Escapist. Those are relatively minor things. This is an entire game franchise changing its look. How much rage do you thing it'll accumulate?
 

Exius Xavarus

Casually hardcore. :}
May 19, 2010
2,064
0
0
mister_redgrave said:
I was pumped I even kinda like the new-look Dante, so I gotta ask, what's with all the hate? I mean is it cause his hair isn't white (which it is in the new devil trigger) I mean, this is the story of how he became the Dante we all know and love, so of course he's going to have to be different otherwise the story can't make that transition, can it?
Except that being half-demon, Dante's had white hair his whole life. This game is a reboot, not a canonical prequel. If they wanted this to be canonical, they shouldn't have recolored his hair black, as that's going to ruffle the feathers of some die-hard fans of the series. A lot of the hate comes from the fact that people generally don't like the way this new Dante looks, I suppose. Oh, and he's half-demon, half-human. Not half-angel.

Personally, I think it looks like a fun game on its own, but I don't really think it should be called Devil May Cry. I don't see anything that even reminds me of that series. As far as I'm concerned, it looks like a pretty decent game in and of itself, but I see it being just like Dragon Age 2: It would have been better if it wasn't trying to usurp another series' name and got one of its own. That's just me, however.

As far as this new Dante goes, however, I generally don't like him. I don't like his hairstyle(not because it's black, I think the style itself is ugly as crap), his clothes make him look like a bum from Hell, and I think he has a most unlikable face.

I also see a disturbing lack of Vergil. This upsets me greatly, as I am a fan more for Vergil than Dante.
 

Shadowstar38

New member
Jul 20, 2011
2,204
0
0
Draech said:
Your objections have more to do with what came before it than what it is now. It is about what you wanted it to be rather than what it is.
What it is, in it's current state, looks bad to me. That alone is completely subjective. Remove the Devil May Cry label from it to "Title for a Third Person Action Game" and it just floats on by as something thats not worth giving two shits about because it's likely 2 out of 5 star material. But in this senario, Devil May Cry 5 would still be a possiblilty.

But the OP wanted to know why people hate This game. The one with DMC attached to it yet is fucking up the lore and taking time away from what could have been a game we liked.

I submitted the valid complaints of why people hated the changes. No whining involved. Just what is wrong with the material we can all look at.
 

Smeatza

New member
Dec 12, 2011
934
0
0
Draech said:
Smeatza said:
Draech said:
Smeatza said:
Draech said:
Smeatza said:
I have been enjoying the Devil May Cry franchise for more than a decade. I have invested heavily in the lore and the style of the games.
In the latest game they have rebooted the lore completely and changed the style of the gameplay.
Can you people honestly say you wouldn't be pissed if valve suddenly said "hey we're going to reboot the Half Life series with a Gears of War style main character and Call of Duty style gameplay"?
I can yes.

Because I have no delusions of my fandom being a deciding factor on the target of my affection. I love Dungeon Deeper, and EA sold the Dungeon Keeper name to a Chinese mmo developer who made a crappy WoW clone out of it. AND I DEAL WITH IT!
I have personally dealt with it by deciding not to buy the game. But you understand why the anger, and therefore hate is there.
And you never know, perhaps all the hate will make capcom consider making the next one an in-house, true to the original lore installment.
You see that bolded part?

That is what is wrong with all fandom.

"If we whine enough maybe we will get our way!"

It is unhealthy train of thought
I really doubt every individual posts messages on the internet stating their dissatisfaction with the express intent of influencing the developers decisions.
I personally have no problem with people expressing their dissatisfaction, and if the developers decide to take note of a significant level of rage, good for them.
First you say this:
And you never know, perhaps all the hate will make capcom consider making the next one an in-house, true to the original lore installment.

Then you say this:
I really doubt every individual posts messages on the internet stating their dissatisfaction with the express intent of influencing the developers decisions.

These 2 dont coexist well. Why would you even suggest something you think is really unlikely?
You seem to be missing the part of my post that reads "express intent."

Draech said:
If you had said from the start that people where just "expressing their dissatisfaction", then we were on the same page. It is what is sometimes called whining. Usually when used with an over inflated sense of self importance and therefore importance of ones dissatisfaction.
I kinda did, and whining is to do with the manner that you complain. Complaining in itself is not whining.
 

Shoggoth2588

New member
Aug 31, 2009
10,250
0
0
I was never a really big fan of the franchise. I kind of liked the first game but I never really got into it and I don't actually own a copy. I do own a copy of number 4 though and...well, I had more fun with Bulletwitch (burn).

The big thing however is this: For about a year or two now I've been hoping to hear about a game called Death Shout under the DMC...abbreviation. The problem is that living in the United States, nobody here really knows about the other DMC. So when you're all talking about Devil May Cry, I see DMC and assume you're talking about...


I could't find the anime video...anyway that's my tiny, little gripe. Honestly I've had the most fun with DMC while listening to DMC while playing DMC...someone should make that into a Yo Dawg poster...
 

Shadowstar38

New member
Jul 20, 2011
2,204
0
0
Shoggoth2588 said:
I was never a really big fan of the franchise. I kind of liked the first game but I never really got into it and I don't actually own a copy. I do own a copy of number 4 though and...well, I had more fun with Bulletwitch (burn).

The big thing however is this: For about a year or two now I've been hoping to hear about a game called Death Shout under the DMC...abbreviation. The problem is that living in the United States, nobody here really knows about the other DMC. So when you're all talking about Devil May Cry, I see DMC and assume you're talking about...


I could't find the anime video...anyway that's my tiny, little gripe. Honestly I've had the most fun with DMC while listening to DMC while playing DMC...someone should make that into a Yo Dawg poster...
 

RedTyger

New member
Aug 9, 2012
11
0
0
Draech said:
You cut my post that is where I corrected you.

But hey you can try to slip out of everything cant you.

It is his opinion. That you needed to prove was worth more than average. And you used the logical fallacy of him being an expert on the subject. You believe what he says carries more weight. That is an Argument from authority simple as that. It is bloody textbook and you still deny it.

I already proved I know the concepts better than you mister "I think you believe argument from authority is always fallacious. It isn't.". You are still trying to change the subject matter.

Listen let me see if I can break through here.

If I was a fan of the game (I am not I have no opinion on the game), would me saying the reboot is good an needed be more valid?
I'm not trying to slip out of anything. If that wasn't in the original post, then it wasn't in my post. But nice try to deflect, yet again. And when did I ever misrepresent your argument? I refuted it quite clearly.
And when did I say, that this poster carried more weight than any other. I'm making my point for argument for authority, which isn't always a fallacy.
But lets bring this up, since you didn't answer it last time. When did he argue from authority. He stated his opinion. He never demanded we follow it, or stated it was a fact.