Doctor Who: Episode 13: The Big Bang (Spoilers) + TimeLord 5000!

[PoliceBox63]

I did think that yeah. Has River Song been reading lines with Captin Jack perchance?

Well she did shnake his Vortex Manipulator

btw are those escapist "e"s in your avatar's eyes?

Actually no their not but looking closely I'm suprised I never noticed that before! That's quite remarkable, and a little spooky. It's actually a painting from an art Expo called 'No ghost, just a shell' and I thought it was quite an edgy avatar to have as my online persona at the time. Ah the world is full of little things like seeing escapist 'e's in avatars... he he.

And how do we know it was definately Jack's VM? Ok, the hansome time agent line kinda gave it away a little, but I demand proof!!! (I kid, it would be fun if it was Jack's VM).

Well obviously because he is the only handsome time agent oh wait John Hart

That was my thought, maybe it's a job spcific qualification thingy that time agents are good looking. He he. It would be funny. Then again, it is in the 51st centry when they're all out 'dancing'.

"In the future... everyone is sexy!"

 

[JordanMillward_1]

I did think that yeah. Has River Song been reading lines with Captin Jack perchance?

Well she did shnake his Vortex Manipulator

Doesn't have to have been Captain Jack's Vortex Manipulator. There were several Time Agents out there, including one "Captain" John Hart. Also, the alien does say that it came from a "handsome new Time Agent", and since Jack and John are anything but new Agents, it's entirely likely it didn't come from either of them, since the Time Agency existed in the 51st and 52nd centuries, which is where River Song goes to get the Vortex Manipulator.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

So, after all that trouble, did the Dalek's FORGET TO LOCK THE DAMN THING?!

Nope, the box forgot to be locked by the Daleks. Given they no longer existed.

They locked it. Were annhilated. Therefore didn't lock it.

 

[Not-here-anymore]

And Gaiman's writing an episode?

Where did you here this? I must know. Not 'want' to know, 'must'. As in, it's integral to my continued existence. I don't know how I don't know this already, but that would be one of the most epic collaborations in TV history. Neil Gaiman + Dr. Who = so much win!!

 

[E-Hybrid]

Personally I enjoyed it, but I found it slightly disappointing given the end of the universe theme.

Overall I would say it was a good season, not brilliant, and I will be looking forward to the Christmas special.

 

[weecath77]

It was really good, I'll admit.

But something that's bothering me is this:

How did The Doctor get out of the pandorica to tell Rory to let him out the pandorica?

I just can't get my head around it.

Agreed,this bit has me annoyed at what was otherwise a very good episode.
He let himself out because he let himself out in the future does not work for me
Rory was class though.
And the Fez.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And Gaiman's writing an episode?

Where did you here this? I must know. Not 'want' to know, 'must'. As in, it's integral to my continued existence. I don't know how I don't know this already, but that would be one of the most epic collaborations in TV history. Neil Gaiman + Dr. Who = so much win!!

Confirmed. he even twittered about writing it within his gazebo surrounded by dogs. Mr S.Fry may also be presenting a moist and inviting episode as well.

 

[Not-here-anymore]

And Gaiman's writing an episode?

Where did you here this? I must know. Not 'want' to know, 'must'. As in, it's integral to my continued existence. I don't know how I don't know this already, but that would be one of the most epic collaborations in TV history. Neil Gaiman + Dr. Who = so much win!!

Confirmed. he even twittered about writing it within his gazebo surrounded by dogs. Mr S.Fry may also be presenting a moist and inviting episode as well.

... I don't even have words for what I'm feeling right now. And I always have words, for everything. I think there's an off chance that I get too excited by anything Neil Gaiman gets involved in, which can't be enormously healthy.

Now, if anyone needs me, I'm going to be reading 'Smoke and Mirrors'. After which I'll probably re-read 'American Gods'. Again.

 

[AdmanUK]

I found it to be confusing and disapointing. I guess I'll wait for next year then.

EDIT: Matt Smith is one of the best doctors so far and the shitty writing has destroyed his potential.

The writing now is far better than when Russel T Davis was around, now we don't get ridiculous moral messages shoved down our throat like a fat man in a prison cell.

 

[atalanta]

And you're wrong, Amy is easily the best companion of the lot, and I'm someone who thought Rose and Martha were awesome.

Er, I think you switched Amy and Donna in that sentence.

But yeah, I'm glad the explosion will be the next plot arc, or at least the Christmas special. I think the weakest episodes of this season suffered from too much being wedged into a short amount of time, which was unfortunate, so a nice long period of time to figure it out will be nice.

Also, Rory sitting down next to the Pandorica to wait made me get all sniffly.

That being said --

The whole point of the (admiteddly lazy) justification that once you become "part of the events" you can't time travel back to change them, which Moffat has subrepticiously retconned out of canon, is to make the risk feel real and the actions have consequences. If you take that away, any upcoming cliffhanger can just be written away by "the Doctor travels back in time and saves himself".

Yeah, this is the sticking point, isn't it? The show sort of handwaves it when they say "history is being rewritten" -- I guess that also means that individual timelines are also unraveling, but that's still not really a very good justification.

 

[Not-here-anymore]

Snip

Don't worry, I'm not arguing too much, I'm just not sure about 'humanity being killed off by their future selves, and hence not existing to destroy themselves' being less of a paradox than 'I'll cross my own timeline a little bit'. Within my own twisted idea of time travel, the first is impossible, the second is just... complicated.

But it's OK, because new technology can be pulled out of thin air to fix everything. Or Amy can use her new-found ability to hack the universe with her mind to make things better. Until some kind of mod comes to get her, anyway.

EDIT: I think some of the whole 'crossed timelines' thing is thanks to getting the previous doctor to say 'screw it, I'm a time lord, so now I'm going to do whatever the hell I want with time. A slight suggestion that the character is less bothered with the consequences of his actions on continuity nowadays.

 

[kaziard]

so...many...plot holes...and discrepancies...hurts...brain

 

[JordanMillward_1]

Er, I think you switched Amy and Donna in that sentence.

No, because Catherine Tate (Donna) is an annoying whiny little *****. She has a voice that would push me to loving nails down a chalk board if it drowned her out, and she is essentially just a dole-scum layabout. I found nothing redeeming about her, which is annoying, because I liked a lot of the series 4 episodes, but she spoilt them for me.

Don't worry, I'm not arguing too much, I'm just not sure about 'humanity being killed off by their future selves, and hence not existing to destroy themselves' being less of a paradox than 'I'll cross my own timeline a little bit'. Within my own twisted idea of time travel, the first is impossible, the second is just... complicated.

That's pretty much how I see it too. If you guys really want a decent way to understand paradoxes, etc, you should try to find a roleplay game called "Continuum", which is entirely about time-travel. It'll give you all you ever need about this subject, and all the Doctor did in this episode is a series of small paradoxes, all of which he fixed with his jumping back with the Vortex Manipulator.

 

[JordanMillward_1]

I found it to be confusing and disapointing. I guess I'll wait for next year then.

EDIT: Matt Smith is one of the best doctors so far and the shitty writing has destroyed his potential.

The writing now is far better than when Russel T Davis was around, now we don't get ridiculous moral messages shoved down our throat like a fat man in a prison cell.

And I entirely agree with this. Moffet is by far the best Doctor Who writer, and I'm glad they prised Davis' hands off the franchise and got rid of him when they did.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

It was really good, I'll admit.

But something that's bothering me is this:

How did The Doctor get out of the pandorica to tell Rory to let him out the pandorica?

I just can't get my head around it.

Agreed,this bit has me annoyed at what was otherwise a very good episode.

There's a number of ways out, in that the Doctor lies, and what we're presented with as continuity is unlikely to be continuity because of the Universe reset. We're just seeing the after-effects of a successful plan, where he's likely to have tried many times.

Think of how Rita would see Phil Connors in Groundhog Day. She doesn't get to see any of his mistakes, just the final solution.

 

[PoliceBox63]

6) Oh, this is a good one. How did the universe survive the Time War, in which battle TARDISes were used and blown up willy-nilly by the Daleks, if a single TARDIS explosion can erase the entire universe? Were the Daleks aware of this in season 1 when they shot a rocket at it? That sounds like a nice deterrent for a war: "Hey, if you destroy my spaceship the entire creation will be erased".

I'm thinking that they would have destroyed the outer dimensions whereas in our finale it's an explosion from the internal dimension.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

6) Oh, this is a good one. How did the universe survive the Time War, in which battle TARDISes were used and blown up willy-nilly by the Daleks, if a single TARDIS explosion can erase the entire universe? Were the Daleks aware of this in season 1 when they shot a rocket at it? That sounds like a nice deterrent for a war: "Hey, if you destroy my spaceship the entire creation will be erased".

I'm thinking that they would have destroyed the outer dimensions whereas in our finale it's an explosion from the internal dimension.

The Daleks strap themselves with explosives and surround the TARDIS in one of the earlier Dalek Episodes.

A single TARDIS explosion can't cause an EH. A TARDIS holding a paradox could.

Edit: Destiny of the Daleks

 

[MarsProbe]

I liked it - tied up so many loose ends. And they didn't forget about the Sun

Also, the bit where Amy had to keep her eyes shut for all the Angels and he tells her to remember what he told her when she was seven. WOW.

Long foreshadowing much?

Yeh, was quite surprising. It was odd, because at the time of the that episode, I thought the Doctor was acting a little differently there than I would have expected. That is indeed some good foreshadowing!

Also, do we think the Doctor will be ditching his tweed number for his sharp wedding suit, conplete with coattails? Personally, I think it betters suits his personality than his regular getup.

Granted, there wasn't as much spectacle as the previous finales of Doctor Who, but it was still just as good. Seems like we will have to wait a bit longer before we find out the real deal behind River Song - and hopefully find out who she actually is, and why this will change everything....