Doctor Who: Episode 13: The Big Bang (Spoilers) + TimeLord 5000!

[Crazy_Bird]

Okay, how about this: River Song is the Master.
No, seriously, it makes sense. He's the only person in the universe I can imagine finding out the Doctor's real name, and so once he regenerated (as a woman) he decided to screw with the Doctor's head by pretending to be his wife from the future. Hah, that wacky Master, him and his antics.

That is also my theory but it becomes quite unstable if you take the Library Two parter in accountant. The way River died showed compassion and love for the doctor something the Master would not show (explicitly) and he would certainly not read bed time stories for little kids.
So either River must have forgotten that she is the Master (we had this already) or the Master had a serious turn to be at least a saint like the doctor whereas I believe the Master works as an Anti-Hero at best.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

If you're going to make ridiculous claims like that, bring up some evidence to support it.

Read it? I have.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

If you're going to make ridiculous claims like that, bring up some evidence to support it.

snip
Read it? I have.

No I have not.

Still waiting for evidence.

 

[PoliceBox63]

Waaait, "it was the same moment where the TARDIS exploded"? Did you just go fifth-dimensional on me? The TARDIS exploded in 2010, the Pandorica closed in 100 AD. It was only the same moment in editor's time, in the story convenience timeline.

Well no... the TARDIS exploded in 2010 yes but from the time-travellers' perspectives it was happening currently just in a different time period. Then when it exploded it exploded at every moment in time so at that instant all things were reset and our Alliance became time fossils.

 

[Maze1125]

That's what pisses me off. Doctor Who is not Back to the Future. Time travelling is the excuse, not the premise. That is a huge change, which angers me on a nerd level. That I am willing to forgive, just because nerds shouldn't have too much influence on stuff. But it's also a bad change, and that disappoints me in a much deeper way. Suddenly Doctor Who isn't scary, because things can be fixed after the fact. It's not tense. Sacrifices mean next to nothing and danger is negligible. That's weaker than before, washed out.

They've explained why the Doctor doesn't travel back and forth through events, because it can screw up the entire universe. So, no matter what bad thing is happening, going back in time to change history and fix it would always make things worse in the end.

Unless, of course, the universe has already been destroyed. In that case there is no danger to constantly switching back and forth through time, because there's nothing left to screw up.

Him travelling back and forth in this story fits perfectly with the established continuity. It would, in fact, make less sense if he didn't, because his excuse for not doing no longer exists.

"Doctor, why don't to just go back in time and fix things?"
"I can't cross my own time-line, it could destroy the universe."
"Ahem!"

 

[Jenova65]

Congrats on 5000 posts Not saying anything about Dr Who since I still think of Jon Pertwee

as the Dr! (Yes I am old) ;-)

 

[JordanMillward_1]

If you're going to make ridiculous claims like that, bring up some evidence to support it.

snip
Read it? I have.

No I have not.

Still waiting for evidence.

He's shown his evidence (I've read it too, and it's one of the many reasons I dislike Davis), it's not his fault you can't be bothered to look it up.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

If you're going to make ridiculous claims like that, bring up some evidence to support it.

snip
Read it? I have.

No I have not.

Still waiting for evidence.

He's shown his evidence (I've read it too, and it's one of the many reasons I dislike Davis), it's not his fault you can't be bothered to look it up.

His evidence is posting a picture of a book written by Davies. That is NOT evidence. Evidence would be posting a quote from said book where he states that he 'invented' Doctor Who.

I am not going to spend my money looking for sources to back up HIS argument.

 

[PoliceBox63]

@Mr Cwtchy:

@The_root_of_all_evil:

I think this is appropriate here.

Spoiler

 

[lawrie001]

Guys tbh the whole series was bad, this episode was best of the worst series ive ever seen, Matt Smith would of made a brilliant doctor if the episodes were more thought out and actually caused some suspense. Throught this series the cracks in time came up everywhere and its like trying to surprise someone on there birthday when youve showed them the party and presents a day before, Series 4 with Donna was one of the best in my opinion. It had what looked like random episodes with no real link between but all good and intresting and then at the finale the planets disappering and daleks etc OMG huge surprise but you thought "oh ye the fire guys planet and the ateposs(whatever) planet vanishing so they went to earth" and even how donna found the doctor so many times was explained it was bloody brilliant as it concluded it all by surprising you completely whilst fitting in with the little details throughout the series. This series was "oh look cracks in time I wonder whats going to happen at the finale to series *nudge**nudge*" there was no subtly or secretive story-arc, it was out in the open. Also it didnt make canon sense, if the doctor never existed then for the first part the time-war would be still potentially going between time lords and daleks, or the time lords had accomplished getting to a new higher plane of existence by destroying the universe which the doctor had stopped before. But dont care about the canon problems just did not like the non-suspense and openess of the story-arc, never made me want to really watch it and wish the other writer was still doing the episodes as new guy is not good at all.
Also do not like design of tardis or opening screen that much either.

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

It was such a great episode I cannot wait for the next series, this new doctor is is realy good

 

[PoliceBox63]

Moffat wrote episodes 1, 2, 4, 5, 12 and 13.
The rest were Mark Gatiss, Toby Whithouse, Simon Nye, Chris Chibnall (2 episodes), Richard Curtis and Gareth Roberts.
Moffat was brilliant with The Empty Child/Doctor Dances, Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, The End of Time-part 2 final scene, Time of Angels/ but not flesh and stone. When he wrote in the Angles moving he ruined them for me and fucked his own established canon in the bum. He's not doing well with the finale and it's setup though as mentioned here

Guys tbh the whole series was bad, this episode was best of the worst series ive ever seen, Matt Smith would of made a brilliant doctor if the episodes were more thought out and actually caused some suspense. Throught this series the cracks in time came up everywhere and its like trying to surprise someone on there birthday when youve showed them the party and presents a day before, Series 4 with Donna was one of the best in my opinion. It had what looked like random episodes with no real link between but all good and intresting and then at the finale the planets disappering and daleks etc OMG huge surprise but you thought "oh ye the fire guys planet and the ateposs(whatever) planet vanishing so they went to earth" and even how donna found the doctor so many times was explained it was bloody brilliant as it concluded it all by surprising you completely whilst fitting in with the little details throughout the series. This series was "oh look cracks in time I wonder whats going to happen at the finale to series *nudge**nudge*" there was no subtly or secretive story-arc, it was out in the open

 

[PoliceBox63]

Did anybody tell that to the Doctor when he did the same thing in The Lodger? Unless destroying the universe is like falling in the Roadrunner cartoons and it doesn't happen until you think about it...

Aye, I hope they get their act together now next series. I realise the show isn't about time travel specifically but Moffat, at least respect the poor thing.

 

[PoliceBox63]

Waaait, "it was the same moment where the TARDIS exploded"? Did you just go fifth-dimensional on me? The TARDIS exploded in 2010, the Pandorica closed in 100 AD. It was only the same moment in editor's time, in the story convenience timeline.

Well no... the TARDIS exploded in 2010 yes but from the time-travellers' perspectives it was happening currently just in a different time period. Then when it exploded it exploded at every moment in time so at that instant all things were reset and our Alliance became time fossils.

Ah... what perspective? Sure, from the writer's perspective, that's how he wanted those moments to line up, but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for those two moments in time to happen simultaneously. Nothing is connecting them. By the time when the Tardis explodes, everything they're cutting to has already happened.

This is why you don't do time travel like this in Doctor Who. The show's science-fiction is not sturdy enough to support it. Time travel is what takes you to the beginning of the next adventure when you finish the previous one, not a plot device.

River's perspective. She started it so whatever happened before that from her perspective is what happened, then when she set in motion the TARDIS exploding (let's just say she did) that's when the explosion richoched back thru time and reset everything at all times. Again i'm not trying to defend the bad writing here so...

I know, I agree. The writers or Moffat are trying to work it into the show (as you said) as an actual plot device. That's not what this show is about and that's not why we like Doctor Who. The time travel should be mysterious to us and the doctor should only allude to it not explain it out to the companions and audience. WE don't want to know. We're fine and happy going along for the ride with our Doctor who is smarter than us.

 

[SnipErlite]

Yeh, was quite surprising. It was odd, because at the time of the that episode, I thought the Doctor was acting a little differently there than I would have expected. That is indeed some good foreshadowing!

Also, do we think the Doctor will be ditching his tweed number for his sharp wedding suit, conplete with coattails? Personally, I think it betters suits his personality than his regular getup.

Granted, there wasn't as much spectacle as the previous finales of Doctor Who, but it was still just as good. Seems like we will have to wait a bit longer before we find out the real deal behind River Song - and hopefully find out who she actually is, and why this will change everything....

Heh, I didn't really notice. Well I thought 'it's a bit weird to say that, what was the point of that?' But soon forgot about it. Cool though.

Haha ermm I think the tweed will stay, with the occasional top hat maybe. I'm sure he'll try and pick up a new fez sometime in the next series only to be cut down by Amy.

Well there's a lot to suggest she's his future wife. And that she kills him. Or something....who knows. Maybe she's the SILENCE WILL FALL voice. Would be interesting, for sure

 

[Megacherv]

Who is River Song - I mean really?

Weren't you paying attention in the last series? She did mention it.

Moffat has performed an incredible service for Doctor Who.

I agree with you there, BUT may I point out one of the most ridiculous puns I've ever heard:-

"Something old, something new, something borrowed and something blue"

The whole series was gearing towards that