Does TES need an overhaul of combat?

[RJ 17]

Pretty much the only thing I'd like to add to the combat would be a "lock on" system, allowing you to more easily fight while in 3rd Person view.

 

[T3hSource]

So you just realized that the TES series are RPGs which can be described as vast oceans with a depth of a puddle?And you're complaining that those bits,which are supposed to be deliciously sweet,taste like sand?Well too bad,wrong game to look for that.
How about this: an RPG with a world made by Bethesda,characters developed by BioWare and a story developed by Obsidian.The perfect RPG any nerd can dream of.

 

[Best of the 3]

Personally I find the combat to be ok. It serves it's purpose. What does need an overhaul is the amount of ways you can complete a quest. I found although there was a lot of them, Skyrim's quests all got a bit repetitive in the end, usually revolving around going into some dank cave and killing Drauger. I want some mad, crazy things to do. Really bursting with creativity, not just shoving me with more drauger.

 

[Norrdicus]

I'm sure there's better ways to solve the potion-guzzling issue. Like, your character can only metabolise 3 effects at a time, or something (upgraded with endurance-based perks). So after 3 heals, you have to wait one in-game hour before you can drink another.

And that is pretty much how Witcher 2 toxicity worked: remove White Honey from equation, give no penalties for high toxicity except not being able to drink another, and shorten the duration of potions in general.

1 in-game hour is still a complete minute if not 1.5, which is still an annoyance in a bossfight once you hit your potion limit.

I really didn't like how in Witcher 2, the toxicity was binary, and didn't wear off with time but simply vanished the instance your potion effect wore off. It would have been nice if by waiting for half the duration to wear off, I'd only have half the toxicity left, and could possibly drink a weaker potion


I just really like the idea of potion overdose being.. well, a thing that exists, and potions generally being a powerful but dangerous tool

 

[Hagi]

Now... is there a Skyrim mod that puts that in game? Cause I dont think I can ever play Skyrim again after watching that... that was awesome.

*Edit*

Also, this is just FPS's in general, but we really need more visible dude than just a pair of arms holding the gun.

There was an oblivion mod that tried, deadly reflex.

It didn't fully succeed but it was still pretty awesome. It had a few very cool features. The kicks were in, if your own stamina was high enough and your enemy's stamina low enough as well as you being strong enough in comparison you'd be able to knock them down and impale them while they were down.

If you aimed right at a humanoid of a humanoid with a sideways power attack the game would enter slow-motion and you'd execute a swing to decapitate them. If your aim was still right on their head when the swing connected you'd decapitate them and get an insta-kill. Same thing could be done by aiming at their lower torso and cutting them in half.

But that was pretty much the extent of it. It didn't go anywhere as far as Dark Messiah did, and that video only showed a fraction of what that game did. Here's some more awesome stuff in the game.
Could you imagine an Elder Scrolls open world where each dungeon is filled with an environment like this? Objects to throw at your enemies, waters to electrocute as you lure patrols into them, weak spots you can destroy to cause collapses no your enemies, spikes to kick your enemies into and ledges to kick them off from. Each dungeon being an exploration in itself on a multitude of ways to use the tools and surroundings available to you to kill the enemies you're facing.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

I'm sure there's better ways to solve the potion-guzzling issue. Like, your character can only metabolise 3 effects at a time, or something (upgraded with endurance-based perks). So after 3 heals, you have to wait one in-game hour before you can drink another.

And that is pretty much how Witcher 2 toxicity worked: remove White Honey from equation, give no penalties for high toxicity except not being able to drink another, and shorten the duration of potions in general.

I just really like the idea of potion overdose being.. well, a thing that exists, and potions generally being a powerful but dangerous tool

Oh. I haven't started Witcher 2 yet, I've been slogging through the first one for ages. I do about one chapter a month. It's just so boring, it gets overshadowed by things like Dishonoured and XCOM and Borderlands 2 and Assassin's Creed 3. But it's fun when I don't have anything else to do, and I want to finish it before I move on.

Anyway, I do like the idea of a potion overdose. Like, it could cause your stamina to drain faster if you drink too much, or cause an addiction like in Fallout 2, or if you want to get really innovative, it could cause your character to get really paranoid and start hallucinating, turning the game into a creepy survival horror until you get your next fix.

 

[WanderingFool]

And hand to hand combat is just cool, no matter how many Daedric weapons the game throws your way. It never should have been removed. Just give us Daedric fist weapons if you have to.

Agreed with hand-to-hand combat. So want to see somthing like this in game.

Its like a dagger, but you stab people by punching them.

*Edit*

Could you imagine an Elder Scrolls open world where each dungeon is filled with an environment like this? Objects to throw at your enemies, waters to electrocute as you lure patrols into them, weak spots you can destroy to cause collapses no your enemies, spikes to kick your enemies into and ledges to kick them off from. Each dungeon being an exploration in itself on a multitude of ways to use the tools and surroundings available to you to kill the enemies you're facing.

Oh Gawd...

*passes out*

 

[WoW Killer]

all I'd ask for afterwards is that the Speechcraft tree not be so useless.

I found a mod for that. It's funny because it's such an obvious thing. For the sake of balance it's best if each skill has some sort of combat benefit, right? I mean crafting is all good because that gets you better gear, and you use that to kill stuff; so the crafting perks are plenty desirable. It's the skills with no effect on combat whatsoever that everybody ends up skipping.

So get this. Speechcraft. You got that? Now think about this. Shouts. Getting any ideas? Yeah, lets make Speechcraft effect Shouts. You can have perks like reducing cooldowns and bigger AoEs and shit. I'd spend perks on that.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18919

Now why the fuck wasn't something like that in Vanilla?

 

[Kopikatsu]

So you just realized that the TES series are RPGs which can be described as vast oceans with a depth of a puddle?And you're complaining that those bits,which are supposed to be deliciously sweet,taste like sand?Well too bad,wrong game to look for that.
How about this: an RPG with a world made by Bethesda,characters developed by BioWare and a story developed by Obsidian.The perfect RPG any nerd can dream of.

Who does the combat?

 

[T3hSource]

Who does the combat?

From Software =D

Man that's actually my dream RPG

This,if it's slow paced and strategical,or Platinum Games if it's straight up hack'n'slash.For those who don't know Platinum Games made Bayonetta and previously were Clover Studios who made GOD HAND!So those guys know how to make an outrageously awesome combat system.

 

[dancinginfernal]

Dark Messiah Snip

Let's be honest here, the only reason you hit anything with a sword in that game was so you could kick it into a pit, or a fire, or throw a box at its face.

Granted that was undoubtedly the best part of that game.

 

[Ravinoff]

The combat needs to feel more brutal. Not like stupid dark fantasy limbs flying off everywhere, but when I swing a 20-pound steel warhammer, it feels like a stick. There's no real...reaction, I guess is the term I'm looking for. And don't even get me started on the kill animations. Those were utterly ridiculous at times.

As an aside: I totally want to be able to play a D&D-style monk in TES. Light/no armor, with a bunch of unarmed special moves.

 

[F'Angus]

I love the combat in TES.

I loved it when I played Morrowind...I loved it when I played Oblivion...and I love it in Skyrim.

The tweaks they do keep it fresh, but it suits the game, what more could you want.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

Above anything else, I would like hitting enemies to actually *feel* like I'm hitting them. Most of the time they don't even flinch when taking a sword blow to the gut.

 

[kickassfrog]

The thing is, Dark Souls will always have an advantage over Elder Scrolls in that regard because it's a third-person game, whereas Skyrim is a first-person game with an optional third-person camera bolted on.

First-person is great for shooting. Shooting happens in straight lines, something the first-person perspective allows for. You pop a bullet, it travels in a straight line from you into your enemy. Simple stuff. However, first-person is absolutely crap for melee.

Melee combat isn't like shooting. Melee doesn't happen in straight lines, it happens in curves and arcs. When you swing a sword, for instance, you're swinging it from one side of your body to the other, in an almost 180 degrees arc. If you want to be able to actually hit anything, then you need to be able to follow that arc completely. Third person allows you to do that. First person does not. In first-person, only the height of the sword's arc is going to swing into your field of view. The rest of the time, the sword is off-screen, and therefore beyond your control.

Now before some smart alec responds to this, yes, I know that in real life melee combat is done in first-person, not some magical third-person. The difference is that if I were to get into a swordfight in real life, I have a host of options available to me that are not available to a videogame character. I can move my head independently of my body, for instance, whereas a VG character has both locked together. That means I can snap my view around to see who else is surrounding my, while still facing and defending against someone in front of me. I can respond to attacks from behind in a split-second, whereas a VG character is weighed down by how long it takes to turn around. I can track the entire movement of my weapons, whereas a VG character simply has a rectangle of vision where their weapons occasionally pass through.

The thing you mention in the OP is another important point: positioning. In third-person, you can not only see an attacker in front of you, you can see other enemies to the side and behind you. This allows you to prioritise targets and select which enemy you think is the biggest threat. In first-person, if someone sneaks up behind or to the left of you, you won't know until they hit you with their weapon. If you're a level 3 knight, and that enemy is a Troll with a massive club or mace, then you don't exactly stand much of a chance.

Lastly, third-person allows characters to have far more moves available to them than first-person characters. Just witness everything from Dark Souls to Ninja Gaiden to Devil May Cry. A third-person character can roll out of the way to avoid an enemy's jab, something that would be disorienting in first-person. They can pull off athletic moves like running along walls or jumping off enemies, something that would be nearly impossible to control in first-person. They can move around with a sense of gymnastics that makes first-person characters look slow and unresponsive in comparison.

In short, the best thing the Elder Scrolls games could do would be to ditch the first-person perspective for combat, and keep melee combat exclusively third-person. It would allow for a responsiveness and tactical awareness that simply doesn't exist in the games atm.

And before anyone quotes me on this: Yes I have seen Chivalry- Medieval warfare. A friend of mine has a copy. I think it sucks. The combat is not realistic at all. If you don't believe me, use your character to take a look at two other characters fighting. The weapons move without any sense of weight or momentum. They don't look like they're moving in a direction because momentum and gravity say so. They look like they're moving in a direction because that's the way the developers programmed them to. The combat is stilted, wieghtless and cardboard looking. The fact that the game is often hailed as the best example of melee combat in first-person only cements my belief that first-person is absolutely terrible for melee.

In real life combat is first persoh wait you did that bit already.
Should we ever have proper VR that allows for more than an overlay on a flat screen for what is essentially a hemisphere of vision, supported by various other senses, it will be good.
Until then, there will always be flaws.


I never really used combat in Elder Scrolls anyway, I role play a wizard while pretending my life is interesting, and I can turn people inside out because they're being a prick, and I can do that with my universe spanning powers.

On the subject, I think the magic system is good but also needs an overhaul. And to bring back custom spells.

 

[immortalfrieza]

First, this First Person VS. Third Person debate is just ridiculous. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that both can't be in and both can't be equally good.

Second, here's a few ideas to help make TES combat more immersive.

1. Make the combat more dynamic and add in camera shaking. For instance, if I slash an enemy across the face, I'd expect to see sparks in the path of the blade if their wearing a metal helmet or a cut and blood coming out of it along said path if they're not wearing one, instead of having blood just randomly squirt out somewhere after hitting a guy. The enemy's head should also move when hit, as it would it somebody hit somebody else in real life, and if it's your character that gets slashed across the face, then the FP camera should show the camera moving along with the hit, as everything I mentioned above would also apply to your character.

2. Add in a timed blocking mechanic. A shield would block damage (all damage BTW) only if you only raised your shield at the right time. Why? It's because if you were in a sword and board fight with somebody in real life if you just stood there with your shield raised and didn't move it around, your opponent would most likely start attacking your legs or head or whatever was exposed, not just pointlessly wail on your shield hoping it get through it somehow. In addition, you or your enemy would move the shield (or weapon if that's what you're blocking with) around to most effectively block the opponent's attacks, which means that if you were facing multiple opponents you'd also, with proper timing, be able to block their attacks as well, making fighting multiple enemies much less like an instant death sentence. Of course, the above would apply to enemy characters as well.

3. A timed dodge and manual dodge mechanic. Similar to the above blocking mechanic, but with a margin of error determined by how agile a character is. More agile characters (the more lightly equipped ones) would dodge an attack instead of blocking it, and while less agile ones would be capable of it, the margin of error would be significantly smaller. Both would have a manual roll to avoid attacks as well, with agiles being better at it.

4. To solve the potion and healing spell problem, there would be a few second long quaffing or casting animation that would leave your character wide open and wouldn't be healed until after it's complete. If an enemy or you is in the middle of this animation and is hit the animation is cancelled and must be restarted if the character wants to heal. So the player wouldn't be able to jam on the heal potion button and drink 10 potions in less than second in the middle of combat, they'd have to try and find a few second window to drink their potion or cast their spell, this would make it so potions and healing spells are no longer the game breakers they are now.

5. Bring back the ability to cast magic with a button press like they did in Oblivion instead of pressing a hotkey or going through a menu to equip a couple magic spells, cast it, then doing it again to reequip your sword and shield like it is now. It never really made sense to not be able cast magic while having a sword in hand to do this in any TES game, but even less so after Oblivion.