Does TES need an overhaul of combat?

[SajuukKhar]

2. Add in a timed blocking mechanic. A shield would block damage (all damage BTW) only if you only raised your shield at the right time. Why? It's because if you were in a sword and board fight with somebody in real life if you just stood there with your shield raised and didn't move it around, your opponent would most likely start attacking your legs or head or whatever was exposed, not just pointlessly wail on your shield hoping it get through it somehow. In addition, you or your enemy would move the shield (or weapon if that's what you're blocking with) around to most effectively block the opponent's attacks, which means that if you were facing multiple opponents you'd also, with proper timing, be able to block their attacks as well, making fighting multiple enemies much less like an instant death sentence. Of course, the above would apply to enemy characters as well.

Enemies in Skyrim start using power attacks when you start blocking, as power attacks break block and cause you to stagger for a second or two.

Also, if you time when you block correctly, you can actually block more effectively, and cause enemies to stagger, you have to block right as they attack you to got it to work.

Admittedly, while enemies have the ability to do those also, they do it rarely, I think there is some bug in the system that tells enemies what to do when your doing something.

Though very now and again you will come across a bandit chief, or another high level bandit, with a shield, who actually knows how to block correctly, and time their blocks in order to negate your attacks and cause you to stagger.

But again, it is super rare.

 

[SajuukKhar]

More like ditching third-person. The combat sucks which is why I roll a mage. Don't have to deal with the crappy combat, though TES seems to want to kill Magic. So I end up losing anyway.

Magic in the Elder Scrolls games has always been portrayed by how popular it is in that land.

-Morrowind was the home of magic, and thus had the most magical stuff
-Cyrodiil was less magical, and magic was more institutionalized.
-skyrim despises magic, and thus there is less magic.

When we get to a more magical province, like Alinor, or valenwood, the magic will change to reflect those lands views on magic also.

 

[Hagi]

Dark Messiah Snip

Let's be honest here, the only reason you hit anything with a sword in that game was so you could kick it into a pit, or a fire, or throw a box at its face.

Granted that was undoubtedly the best part of that game.

Hardly.

It was simply a game where the exact thing this thread's complaining about didn't work. Simply hitting the enemy with your sword over and over and over again doesn't work.

You have to switch things up. Charge them with your sword, kick them, impale them. Throw a box at their face, then decapitate them. Bash them repeatedly with your sword until they stagger back into a wall of spikes. etc.

But if you understand how to use your sword effectively then it's a powerful weapon.

It isn't a fencing game where you and your opponent stand across from each other hitting and blocking until one of you manage to break through the other's defences. It's a swashbuckling game where you dart in and out of combat and where you use everything in your environment to your advantage.

 

[tehroc]

TES is completely overrated in every department except world design. Nothing turns me off more to TES then the shallow combat. After playing Dark Souls, Skyrim bored the hell out of me.

 

[Norrdicus]

Oh. I haven't started Witcher 2 yet, I've been slogging through the first one for ages. I do about one chapter a month. It's just so boring, it gets overshadowed by things like Dishonoured and XCOM and Borderlands 2 and Assassin's Creed 3. But it's fun when I don't have anything else to do, and I want to finish it before I move on.

The first game's combat is a slog, especially in the swamp areas in acts 2 and 3. Just so much backtracking through respawning enemies.

How far are you? By Act 3, the out-of-combat stuff becomes really interesting, and just escalates towards the end. If you have intentions to play 2, a completed Witcher 1 save file could immensely ease your first few gameplay hours

Anyway, I do like the idea of a potion overdose. Like, it could cause your stamina to drain faster if you drink too much, or cause an addiction like in Fallout 2, or if you want to get really innovative, it could cause your character to get really paranoid and start hallucinating, turning the game into a creepy survival horror until you get your next fix.

While addiction is a decent idea as well, I don't like how Fallout does it. Seemingly random, creating this bizarre "reverse-Skinner Box" where you just don't want to use any of your potions ever, just hoarding them in your inventory as vendor trash. Except of course once you're addicted, then the floodgates open.

 

[Joccaren]

Somewhat.

Combat in TES, at least in Skyrim, can or could work if the AI were allowed to be better, magic scaled properly, and sneak wasn't horribly OP. Oh, and the food and potions were fixed.

The AI definitely needs to be improved, and part of this is a proper class system. Classes exist in Skyrim, but there is little difference in their behaviour. After some modding, I managed to make myself 2 main melee classes that meant you couldn't just run in sword swinging.
The first had a sword and a shield. It blocked 80% of the time, attacked 20%. If you tried to power attack it, it would shield bash you whilst you were starting your animation, staggering you. Whilst you were staggered, it would power attack you. You had to wait for it to attack and counter, or use magic, to be able to effectively fight it.
The second was a two handed warrior who would flank you whilst the shield warrior followed normal combat movement, and who would power attack you mercilessly to stagger you, and when you were staggered the shield dude would power attack you too.
I also modded dragons so that they would rarely land, occasionally hover, but would spend most of their time flying past and breathing fire on you. Made them far harder to fight, as melee can't hit air, bows are hard to aim at constantly flying targets, and magic didn't have sufficient range most of the time.

Magic in Skyrim is flawed, though I'm not sure how it is in other titles. Destruction Magic is the main problem, as its strength doesn't scale with level. Basically, you deal the same pathetic amount of damage all through the game, unless you get a couple of perks. The same could be said of swords, except that a Daedric Sword is significantly more powerful than an Iron one, so you don't need sword damage to scale with levels. Magic is either prohibitively expensive if its strong, or useless if its weak. Scaling damage with level would help with this.

Sneak... I don't mind melee sneak attacks, especially if the enemies are positioned properly so that it becomes difficult to assassinate everyone from behind without the others noticing. Its a fair concept that is slightly lacking in execution. Ranged sneaking... Just no. Whilst its cool the first time to be able to one hit an entire army of enemies by sneaking to one spot and shooting them, it needs to be less OP, else it just becomes boring later on. Something as simple as having the AI be better at searching could help, forcing you to take up a difficult position further away for sniping, or to move around a lot once you kill one guy, or to take them out in an order similar to what a melee assassin would, but from a distance.

Potions and food are one thing that really needs to change though, and I'd almost tie this in with a change to the stamina system. Potions should not be instant effect. You use it, and you regenerate that health over a minute or so. Slightly advantageous, not game changing, and so long as they don't stack its near impossible to exploit. An instant health recovery item should be available, but it should be incredibly expensive thanks to the benefit it provides.
Food should not recover health. For one it should have an eating animation, and for two it should recover stamina over time like a potion would, with the potion being the highly expensive instant recovery option for stamina.
I would also add a hardcore mode where stamina has a higher cap, each action using stamina uses less, but stamina slowly degenerates over time. The way to stop this? Eat food. To regenerate your stamina there are expensive potions, or you can rest and receive stamina instead of a bonus to XP. Been trying to mod this in, but Skyrim is annoying me with how its buffs work.

 

[verdant monkai]

Yes but just a slight one I often end up hitting my allies so I think you should be able to turn off friendly fire, but be allowed to have it back on if you like how realistic it is when your dumbass a.i partner sticks their face in the way of your axe.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

How far are you? By Act 3, the out-of-combat stuff becomes really interesting, and just escalates towards the end. If you have intentions to play 2, a completed Witcher 1 save file could immensely ease your first few gameplay hours

Oh yeah, the swamps were a *****. Especially in Chapter 2 (I think) with those damn exploding monsters and plant things that come out of nowhere and shoot at you.

I think I'm at the beginning of chapter 4; I started exploring a strange island and found a town in the middle of some wedding.
The story has been pretty underwhelming for me so far. Has its interesting bits, but the dialogue can often be really strange and stilted (mistranslations from Polish, maybe?) which jars me out of the moment a lot. Is The Witcher 2 better written/translated?

While addiction is a decent idea as well, I don't like how Fallout does it. Seemingly random, creating this bizarre "reverse-Skinner Box" where you just don't want to use any of your potions ever, just hoarding them in your inventory as vendor trash. Except of course once you're addicted, then the floodgates open.

That's true; I'd always save before using any drugs and reload if I got addicted (can't remember how it worked in FO3, but in FO2 it was a % chance).
But I always considered drug addiction in Fallout to be a roleplaying choice, like turning into a vampire in TES.

But I agree, it would be cool if there was an option to abuse/overdose on potions, but it risks long-term negative effects. Like, the game mechanics don't stop you from doing it, but regular potion abuse leads to lower maximum health and stamina overall. So there's incentive to be sparing with your potion-guzzling, without any annoying limitations in emergencies.

 

[AntiChri5]

A game focused entirely on combat and almost entirely on melee combat does melee combat better then a game with no particular focus in which you can spend hundreds of hours building a home, raising a family and reading books in your library?

WHAT A SHOCK!

Dark Souls combat is better then Skyrims because that's all Dark Souls is. Combat. But Skyrim can be whatever i want it to be.

 

[llubtoille]

I found the combat rather satisfying,
haven't played dark souls so no idea if it's better,
I rather enjoyed how simple it could be if I wanted an easy time
yet I could switch from 2-hand to sword & board or bow to suit the conditions.
or manage stamina for power attack to break blocks.

Perhaps some kind of location damage thing would be nice, (beyond head shots) - like hit from behind for higher crit chance or something.
but I wouldn't want it so complicated that I couldn't play it with half an eye open.

I don't think potion spamming needs any kind of penalties, as after all it's a single player game and if you die you just quick-load anyway.
most penalties are better left for the player to impose on themselves, as otherwise it just frustrates others.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I don't mind it. It feels weighty and gritty. Ya it's really simple but IMO, combat isn't nearly the most important part of the Elder Scrolls games. If they can somehow keep the essence of the Elder Scrolls intact (that means 1st person needs to stay) with a combat system overhaul, I'm all for it. The problem is, I've never played a 1st person game where the melee system was any good so I don't know if it's possible.

 

[SpaceBat]

I absolutely hate TES's braindead combat, so I'll definitely vote a yes.
It needs some tweaks (both in the mechanics themselves and in variety/environments, so the vast majority of all your battles don't take place in the same boring-looking dungeon against the same damn enemy every damn time) in order for it to not be a total bore to play.

It's got exploration done right, but everything around it is pretty damn bad at the moment.

 

[Therumancer]

TES is an RPG not an action game with some RPG elements tacked on like "Dark Souls". Combat is intended to be resolved mostly by the attributes of your character, not by your abillity to respond and perform moves and combos. This might not be to everyone's tastes, but it is what makes TES what it is, games like Dark Souls exist specifically as a counterpoint for those who want arcade style combat.

I think TES should remain more or less how it is, it's perfect for what it set out to do, and it's one of the few games where the stats are the driving force that remains on a AAA level.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

First of all, saying that the combat in the whole Elder Scrolls series sucks is a pretty unspecific complaint. It would have been fine actually if it weren't for Skyrim, which did completely overhauled the series' combat system (whether this was a positive change or not depends on your opinion; I'm guessing the answer is no for you if you noticed a change at all). The problem I see with wording it that way is some people are only going to think of Skyrim, either because it's the latest installment or simply because it's the only Elder Scrolls game they've played. That's where it gets tricky for me, because I'm not sure whether I should address this topic in terms of the Skyrim combat system or the one that essentially stayed the same throughout the games before it. In addition, you say "combat," but what you seem to be focusing on is melee. I think archery in Skyrim was just about bloody perfect and immensely satisfying, magic was pretty decent (and that's coming from someone who never voluntarily makes a mage in an RPG) but I agree that melee is "meh" at best; nevertheless, the combat overhaul was the only redeemable part of an ultimately disappointing game for me.

Probably the best way for me to answer this question, then, is to say this: If the next Elder Scrolls game retained Skyrim's combat aside from a few tweaks in the melee department but other than that was basically like Oblivion, then I would be a happy Moogle. However I wouldn't mind at all if combat went back to the way it was before if that meant I got more of an Oblivion or Morrowind-type experience. Combat is not the reason I play an Elder Scrolls game and I don't think it's the main reason for many people either. The departure in atmosphere and the further scaling back in RPG elements just made Skyrim flat-out boring after awhile and looks like it's catering to a whole different demographic of gamers, one which I certainly don't seem to be a part of.

In short, no, I don't want to see the combat system changed. I don't want the Elder Scrolls series to become action/adventure like some people. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I do find it enjoyable as it is, though I usually can't stand 2/3 of the broad combat methods (magic, melee and archery) in a particular Elder Scrolls game (I always avoid magic in RPGs though; again, it's just not my style). Bethesda already tried overhauling the combat in Skyrim and the rest of the game suffered in my opinion. Definitely not the sole reason it suffered, but it didn't help.

Also dungeons were boring in Skyrim, seem to be pretty small and drab so far in Morrowind, but exploring dungeons is the most fun part of Oblivion for me.

 

[SpaceBat]

So you just realized that the TES series are RPGs which can be described as vast oceans with a depth of a puddle?And you're complaining that those bits,which are supposed to be deliciously sweet,taste like sand?Well too bad,wrong game to look for that.
How about this: an RPG with a world made by Bethesda,characters developed by BioWare and a story developed by Obsidian.The perfect RPG any nerd can dream of.

Who does the combat?

From Software =D

Man that's actually my dream RPG

Only if the developers of The Witcher get to help with the dialogue/story. I hate the way most games implement a limited and faulty two(or three)-way morality system.

Only then would it be my dream RPG. Also, someone would need to slap Bethesda across the face and make sure they don't overdo the size of the world and don't rehash the same environments/enemies again.

 

[dancinginfernal]

Snip

You took me a bit more seriously than I would have preferred.

What I meant was, kicking enemies and people is so entertaining in the game - it was really hard to convince myself to do anything else. The game does, really, have a very deep combat system that builds itself well in the case of different types of combat, and such. But why set a guy on fire when you could kick him through the fire, ignite him, and then kick him again into a wall of spikes?

Captcha: that's hot

Oh you, Captcha.

 

[Norrdicus]

Oh yeah, the swamps were a *****. Especially in Chapter 2 (I think) with those damn exploding monsters and plant things that come out of nowhere and shoot at you.

I think I'm at the beginning of chapter 4; I started exploring a strange island and found a town in the middle of some wedding.
The story has been pretty underwhelming for me so far. Has its interesting bits, but the dialogue can often be really strange and stilted (mistranslations from Polish, maybe?) which jars me out of the moment a lot. Is The Witcher 2 better written/translated?

It definitely is better written, sometimes even quote-worthy in a positive sense. With the exception of a certain optional puzzle where the solution is hidden in a multitude of riddles.

I didn't personally see much wrong with the Witcher 1 (enhanced edition) translation though. Then again, I don't remember any good lines bar one from playing for 50+ damn hours either, so it mustn't have been too great.

But I agree, it would be cool if there was an option to abuse/overdose on potions, but it risks long-term negative effects. Like, the game mechanics don't stop you from doing it, but regular potion abuse leads to lower maximum health and stamina overall. So there's incentive to be sparing with your potion-guzzling, without any annoying limitations in emergencies.

One could also implement some kind of a potion immunity system, where specific type of potion abuse could dramatically decrease the benefits received?

Damnit, it almost depresses me that one could invent all these different ways to put immersion, realism and balance to such a minor part of the game as "consumables", but they'll never be implemented into the game.

Hurray for mods I guess, I should get JE Sawyer's New Vegas mod one of these days