Don't soldiers seem like...complete idiots?

[Samcanuck]

I was reading the One Piece manga recently, and a certain quote got to me. A soldier had said that "Doesn't all the people losing their lives look like complete idiots?"

That really got to me. Don't soldiers ever stop to think what there fighting for? I understand the "protect their love ones" argument, but were their love ones in danger to begin with? It just seems most soldiers across the world go and die and kill because someone had told them too.

Thoughts?

The one thing I have learned in my time in the military is that each persons motivations are different. It`s a strange world, the military, because you get very polarized personalities. Some are the uber-bullies who have always preyed on the weak, some are thrill junkies looking for that spice in life, some are the strong nerdy types who have something to prove, some are suicidal, some are leaders wanting to prove there worth, some are glory hounds searching for that next metal, some want a pay check, some were born into it and some believe in the cause. And to some degree, most are combinations with one or two of these traits being the outstanding cause.

You cannot regard a person as intellegent or not just becuase of there military profession. Besides, everybody has a different form of intellegence.

If you want to know my story, then ask...otherwise, this is my opinion and I feel its very valid. Good enough?

 

[bobknowsall]

I was reading the One Piece manga recently, and a certain quote got to me. A soldier had said that "Doesn't all the people losing their lives look like complete idiots?"

That really got to me. Don't soldiers ever stop to think what there fighting for? I understand the "protect their love ones" argument, but were their love ones in danger to begin with? It just seems most soldiers across the world go and die and kill because someone had told them too.

Thoughts?

It's a job, and they're going to do it as long as they're serving their military. War may cause a lot of deaths, but some of those deaths are genuinely necessary to save innocent lives.

War's a necessary evil, and soldiers are not good, bad, or evil purely for participating in it. Their wartime actions will dictate that.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

I was reading the One Piece manga recently, and a certain quote got to me. A soldier had said that "Doesn't all the people losing their lives look like complete idiots?"

That really got to me. Don't soldiers ever stop to think what there fighting for? I understand the "protect their love ones" argument, but were their love ones in danger to begin with? It just seems most soldiers across the world go and die and kill because someone had told them too.

Thoughts?

You're basing a generalization about world militaries on a manga?

*Puts hand over eyes*

Not commenting! Not Commenting! Not paying attention to the person who didn't read my DAMN post

 

[Legion]

No, they don't, that's what they want you to think.
They are -NOT- fighting for my Freedom, the only one who fights for my freedom is myself.

they do fight for our freedom. an idiot knows that. i hardly doubt that you can defend your freedom better than a soldier can. if the taliban are 100% successful in the war, then what do you think they are going to do? ill tell you. they will expand and expand and attack enemies.

The typo made me laugh: "they do fight for our freedom. an idiot knows that."

Why do you think the Taliban dislike the West in the first place? Who do you think armed them? It was the Wests fault all this crap happened to begin with, if every country defended it's borders and nothing more then they wouldn't be able to do anything. If they tried to invade one country then the others help. Simple.

Invading the Middle East caused more problems than it solved. It was unnecessary and has gained the West nothing but oil and hatred, As well as oil.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

But why the fuck would anyone die for someone they don't know?

Because perhaps they see that there are more important things in this world than themselves. Maybe because it might just be the right thing to do. Perhaps they aren't selfish fuckers that you portraying yourself as.

Yea...you are kinda right. It still seems like a stupid reason to die,though.

 

[SilentHunter7]

if you've talked to any soldier in our days, you'll see that most of them are amazingly stupid.

You clearly haven't talked with many soldiers, or if you have, it clearly wasn't enough to get to know them.

Every officer in the armed forces is required to have formal education to at least a bachelor's degree. Many of them have their Master's.

Most enlisted are trained vastly to perform their tasks, whether it be rebuild the engine of an Abrams, install the payload of an F-18 Fighter Jet, manage vast computer databases, inspect an intercontinental ballistic missile, or lead a fire-team through a hostile urban environment. Unless you're Steven Hawking, I don't think you have the right to call anyone with the knowledge required to perform those duties, stupid.

 

[darth gditch]

Absolutely not.

All the ordinary person wants is to be left to his/her own business. All the ordinary soldier wants is to get paid and not get killed. Other motivations usually involve a mixture of a taste for adventure and patriotism.

And as for do they question why they're fighting? Yes, yes they do. But they do their duty none the less, because they've taken an oath. My friend is a marine and my Dad is a retired Navy commander, and I can say that they are not idiots.

 

[omega 616]

Absolutely, but humans have been murdering each other since they started, there's no reason to stop now.

As for Nukes and whatnot, who would you want with the finger on the button? Joe from down the road, or a man who has spent months or years being trained discipline and to follow orders?

I want the E.U, MENSA, politicians, army generals and general smart arses (not anybody with the last name of bush or family relatives of bush to the 5th degree) to sit round a huge table, with a finger buffet and spend a few hours/days/weeks/months debating the appropriate amount of force to be used, in a voting kind of way.

It would eliminate the need for any kind of army, I am sure with todays technology Helicopters can be controlled MW2 style and boats could use alot smaller crews.

 

[gally912]

Setting aside my bias from my years in the Army, I reject the premise that anyone can be called an "idiot" based purely on their profession. Is every waiter, or any given low paying job, a fool? No, of course not. What is it you do? I imagine you're a student. Is every student intelligent?

If you honestly can't comprehend somebody believing in and willing to die for a cause higher than something that directly affects them, then there is really no point in having this conversation.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

I wouldn't necessarily say wars are primarily caused by religion and capitalism/greed, I would say war is most often caused by fear.

A nation is uncertain of the people across its nearest border, so they gather enough fighters to let their nervousness rest. The other nation sees its neighbor gathering warriors, it does the same, in case they'll need to prepare for an attack. Nation 1 sees them also gathering an army, so they move their own to the border to block off any attack. Nation 2 sees an army approaching their border, they think an attack is on its way. Before long both nations have bred a generation who sees its neighbor as an opportunistic nest of vipers who may strike any minute, and they're tired of living in fear of an attack. So they strike first, to protect their homeland. Both nations are now defending themselves from the other by attacking each other. Once this war ends, their children will be even more likely to repeat the process from step 1.



Religion and opportunity only help divide two nations, and when two cultures don't understand each other, fear of the unknown leads to speculation and preparation.

The world wouldn't necessarily be a better place without any armies either, they provide order. For example without the United States Navy, there would be a much weaker force stopping piracy in international waters. Free trade would suffer, as would interdependence between separate nations. Also, people of one nation will be willing to blame a rival nation for the actions of one pirate, despite acting independently, that one pirate is just "proving the other nation is a nest a thieves".

Despite all of this though, Peace isn't achieved out of love for your neighbors or sanctity seen in all human life. Peace is holding an axe to someone you hate, but not striking them. Economic interdependence ensures that attacking one nation will hurt your own, the free trade with that nation makes borderlines thinner, mingling the two cultures together slowly via reproduction. So I suppose the hippies were right that unmitigated sex helps spread peace, ignoring all the troubles that caused, i.e. disease and single moms who had no one to help them.

Without soldiers, open trade with a nation would be more expensive than privateerism; without trade, nations grow more separate; with separation people become uncertain and afraid. And you can only keep a person living in fear for so long.


One last thing, life in the military forms strong bonds and community within itself. A sense of community is the best deterrent for crime, and can really make life more fulfilling. Assuming all soldiers are complete idiots is just an isolationist attitude that I would conjecture stems from general nervousness in social situations and unhealthy stereotyping. You should really be willing to meet a few soldiers and realize there are a lot of good people there.

 

[SlowShootinPete]

I was reading the One Piece manga recently, and a certain quote got to me. A soldier had said that "Doesn't all the people losing their lives look like complete idiots?"

That really got to me. Don't soldiers ever stop to think what there fighting for? I understand the "protect their love ones" argument, but were their love ones in danger to begin with? It just seems most soldiers across the world go and die and kill because someone had told them too.

Thoughts?

You're basing a generalization about world militaries on a manga?

*Puts hand over eyes*

Not commenting! Not Commenting! Not paying attention to the person who didn't read my DAMN post

I did read it, it gave me a very strong impression that your post was inspired by a single line of dialogue from a manga, which hardly reflects the entire spectrum of human motivations.

 

[Ensiferum]

I was reading the One Piece manga recently, and a certain quote got to me. A soldier had said that "Doesn't all the people losing their lives look like complete idiots?"

That really got to me. Don't soldiers ever stop to think what there fighting for? I understand the "protect their love ones" argument, but were their love ones in danger to begin with? It just seems most soldiers across the world go and die and kill because someone had told them too.

Thoughts?

My advice to you would be to put down the manga and go out and get to know some real soldiers.

Does the mere fact that they are soldiers make them stupid? The answer is no, there are plenty of factors involved that you have to consider. Firstly it depends on the country and whether or not they're conscripted or military service is required to maintain citizenship like in Finland. Secondly you have to consider a soldier's reason for wanting to join the military. Being from the US I'm going to use that as my primary example. I have a lot of friends who are in the military as soldiers. Having spoken to them many times about their choices to be in the military, all of them have told me that their primary reason for joining the military is to protect the people and country they love, as they value those things so dearly that they would die to ensure their safety. Secondly they are using it to make a living, but why shouldn't they be? They're sacrificing a large part of their lives in order to give others the freedom to live theirs. Now I understand politics means that they may not get to do exactly what they want to do but that's the government's fault, not theirs. Above all their intentions and motives are by my definition pure, and hardly what I would ever call stupid.

 

[Smagmuck_]

From videos I've seen on youtube. Soldiers seem bored 90% of the time and the other 10% they're balls-to-the-wall-could-care-less-what-happens-as-long-as-the-guy-next-lives-to-make-it-home and the they're right back to being bored...

 

[Shock and Awe]

To think that the personnel of the US military are just plain stupid is(ironically) a very ignorant statement; obviously made by somebody who has little inkling of what the jobs in the US military entail. Lets take infantry, pretty simple right? Shoot those guys over there, more up, repeat, right? Wrong. US infantry are required to be able to do many things, including but not limited to being able to take control at any time if those superior to you in your squad are to become casualties, organize a group of people who may not exactly get along, keep track of hostile forces, complete any given objectives, all while not losing your head(both figuratively and literally). They also need to be familiar with numerous weapon systems, from simple things like grenades, to more complex things like assault rifles, all the way up to the targeting systems for Javelin Anti-Tank missiles, and that is just infantry, lets not go into what combat engineers have to know in addition to all of this.

Though I will agree that many soldiers don't really think a lot about why they are being sent somewhere, or are being ordered to do something. Most of the time it is just following orders, much of the time you follow orders because they are orders, simple as that, almost every soldier, marines, sailor, and airman knows that if everyone went around questioning their OIC, nothing would ever get done, and the whole system would grind down real fast, which is completely correct. Though I seriously call bullshit on many peoples' claims that soldiers would massacre civilians without cause just because they are orders. To think that every soldier would kill civilians purposely for no reason is simply ludicrous.

 

[Shock and Awe]

From videos I've seen on youtube. Soldiers seem bored 90% of the time and the other 10% they're balls-to-the-wall-could-care-less-what-happens-as-long-as-the-guy-next-lives-to-make-it-home and the they're right back to being bored...

Thats an old one, war is 95% boredom, with 5% terror, percentages vary of course =).

 

[Tdc2182]

You probably should have thought about that. There is no way at all that could have come out sounding right.

And quite frankly, I think I speak for many people whn I say this, Screw you. These people give at least a good four years of their lives for you. So when people like you sit in your comfy house on the computer and try to accuse them of being idiots, you can basically STFU. They deserve every God Damn ounce of respect you can give them.

But why the fuck would anyone die for someone they don't know? Also, I'm not calling them idiots, I think they seem like idiots. Also, I'm not talking about just OUR soldiers, I'm talking about ALL soldiers in general.

Why would you kill or be killed just because someone told you too? To get respect? I'd much prefer my life than something as shallow as "props".

You think they seem like idiots, but you arent calling them idiots? In that case, you seem like an idiot.

Why would they die for someone they dont know? Maybe its because they think the other persons life is more important. Maybe its because they believe in the cause. Maybe they dont want a boring life. Maybe its because they dont want an innocent person to die for no good reason

But this line got me the most: "But why the fuck would anyone die for someone they don't know?"

If you honestly dont know the answer to that, then you shouldn't even be alive on this earth. If you cant understand self sacrifice, then your life really is shallow.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

You probably should have thought about that. There is no way at all that could have come out sounding right.

And quite frankly, I think I speak for many people whn I say this, Screw you. These people give at least a good four years of their lives for you. So when people like you sit in your comfy house on the computer and try to accuse them of being idiots, you can basically STFU. They deserve every God Damn ounce of respect you can give them.

But why the fuck would anyone die for someone they don't know? Also, I'm not calling them idiots, I think they seem like idiots. Also, I'm not talking about just OUR soldiers, I'm talking about ALL soldiers in general.

Why would you kill or be killed just because someone told you too? To get respect? I'd much prefer my life than something as shallow as "props".

You think they seem like idiots, but you arent calling them idiots? In that case, you seem like an idiot.

Why would they die for someone they dont know? Maybe its because they think the other persons life is more important. Maybe its because they believe in the cause. Maybe they dont want a boring life. Maybe its because they dont want an innocent person to die for no good reason

But this line got me the most: "But why the fuck would anyone die for someone they don't know?"

If you honestly dont know the answer to that, then you shouldn't even be alive on this earth. If you cant understand self sacrifice, then your life really is shallow.

I'm just being realistic, thats all.