Gays and Homophobia

[Willwillwritehiswill]

Ah, well that explains what exactly the Dr said. I'm paraphrasing but "There has not been substaintual evidence from accurate tests, even then a defect is misguided as impedement must be shown. Whereas, in recent times the opposite has been shown...." he went on a bit more but that's all that is relevant. Although there are some flaws in the test and there is no evidence of a DEFECT, only that sexual attraction is due to brain structure; ie: people who like men the same brain structure. However, I understand how you derived your belief from that one article.

you're totally right. Your anecdotal evidence far outweighs my anecdotal evidence.

I'll limit someones freedom. As of right now i've really stopped caring about all this "gays rights" mumbo jumbo. if you disagree with me, cool. dont particularly care but hey its a free world.

What is this i don't even

 

[BlumiereBleck]

I'll limit someones freedom. As of right now i've really stopped caring about all this "gays rights" mumbo jumbo. if you disagree with me, cool. dont particularly care but hey its a free world.

What is this i don't even

figure of speech. this world is far from free

 

[enriel]

It's not worth paying attention to. Dealing with the subject of being gay should be something like...

"Dude, check that chick out, she is BANGIN."
"Actually, I was checkin out her boyfriend."
"Oh. You're gay?"
"Yep."
"Cool."

So maybe you can't check out the same groups of people...at the end of the day, you're both still pretty much the same.

That being said, I am offended by flamers. Because they can't seem to get over the gay aspect. You get the sense that being gay is their only identity. It'd be like people walking around creating an entire persona out of being straight. It's just...pointless and dumb.

I don't understand why this is STILL a discussion. Option C I suppose...

 

[Mithent]

I agree with your views on marriage. I find the Kinsey scale to be a little skewed, but anyway.

Glad we agree - it seems most sensible to me to uncouple the whole legal side from "marriage". I'm surprised I don't see that option put forward so much; I suppose that some people would cry out that their marriage would be devalued if the word was removed from law, while others are hell-bent on "gay marriage" for full equality, yet it just separates the legal partnership side from the socio-religious aspect of the ceremony.

The Kinsey Scale reference was somewhat tongue-in-cheek

You're right, and most gays would say they are born that way, so what good does it do to be so outwardly proud of something you can't help and had no hand in? Surely people should focus on being proud of what they have accomplished in life or whatever. But realistically, I think it's more a reaction to being told they should be ashamed of themselves for being gay. They probably don't get up in the morning and think "Man I'm happy I'm gay" but rather have things like "Gay Pride" as a backlash to the idea that it's bad and shameful to be gay.

I'm sure you're right, yes - it does make sense that the gay pride movement exists. I suppose I'm saying that I'd prefer it not to have to, but there are some who worry about "assimilation", wanting to maintain gay culture and identity, and would find the idea offensive.

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

Ah, well that explains what exactly the Dr said. I'm paraphrasing but "There has not been substaintual evidence from accurate tests, even then a defect is misguided as impedement must be shown. Whereas, in recent times the opposite has been shown...." he went on a bit more but that's all that is relevant. Although there are some flaws in the test and there is no evidence of a DEFECT, only that sexual attraction is due to brain structure; ie: people who like men the same brain structure. However, I understand how you derived your belief from that one article.

you're totally right. Your anecdotal evidence far outweighs my anecdotal evidence.

I apologise if I offended you, just reading the article it never mentioned a defect, I concede there is a difference in brain structure but all that shows is sexual attraction is hard wired and not a birth defect. However, I'm still sorry for offending you.

 

[Nannernade]

I support the gays, they have every right to be the same as non gay people, I'm straight but a lot of people think I'm bi. I'm for them because well why not? Just because one group tells them to fuck off? No.

 

[Nagisa94]

I'm bisexual, and proud of it so obviously yes, I support the rights of the GBLT community. Although I lean just a tad more towards women than men, I have always admired the idea of love so strong, it overcomes the barrier of gender.
I've fallen in love with a boy before, and in truth, I never really questioned it. I was just someone who fell in love with someone, that's how it should be. That's when I truly knew that I'm bi.

(I'm a dude by the way.)

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Ok then so be it, I'll limit someones freedom. As of right now i've really stopped caring about all this "black rights" mumbo jumbo. if you disagree with me, cool. dont particularly care but hey its a free world.

See what happens when you change the context by just a little bit? Arguing against homosexuals having equal rights is exactly like arguing against an ethnicity having equal rights. If you argue that homosexuals should have no rights then you're also arguing that ethnicities should have no rights.

Hell, why not change the context yet again?

Ok then so be it, I'll limit someones freedom. As of right now i've really stopped caring about all this "freedom of expression" mumbo jumbo. if you disagree with me, cool. dont particularly care but hey its a free world.

Your argument is absurd and your reasoning for denying a group their rights is just as absurd. The funny thing is, if your religious freedom was limited or even removed as a right all together you would be in my shoes right now, arguing for it. It seems that people don't really appreciate rights until they are taken from them.

 

[Willwillwritehiswill]

I apologise if I offended you, just reading the article it never mentioned a defect, I concede there is a difference in brain structure but all that shows is sexual attraction is hard wired and not a birth defect. However, I'm still sorry for offending you.

You didn't offend me. The is the internet. It'll take more than that to offend me here and you certainly don't even register as a blip on my radar. I don't want you to think i'm a reactionary arsehole, because i'm not. I'm just a regular arsehole.

 

[chiggerwood]

While I believe homosexuality to be a moral sin (I'm a Christian). I have no problems with homo\bisexuals, and I think that if they want to get married that should be their right. I believe that I nor anyone else have the right to dictate how someone lives their lives even if I disagree with their beliefs.

 

[Spoonius]

I'm all for equal rights, but the thought of fucking another guy makes me feel physically sick.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I'm all for equal rights, but the thought of fucking another guy makes me feel physically sick.

Who cares? You're not the one who's going to be doing the fucking. Also, what's with this "I'm all for X" bullshit? Do people put it there so as to emphasize that they really have no problem with X but if it relates to Y they suddenly do? It makes no sense. You can't say you're all for equal rights but then make a statement implying you want to deny someone their rights.

 

[seryoga]

I have no problem with gays and lesbians. Its funny how people pick on homosexuals, but no one makes fun or necropheliacs, pedophiles, zoopheliacs, guro freaks, lolicon fans, scatolphelia, beastiality, and rapists.

I totally make fun of all of those

But i digress(whatever that means)

Im straight but as a communist i believe that hatred against gays is made to divide the working class and cause conflict among us, and that they are no different from any other group There are good gays and bad gays, just like there are good heteros and bad heteros

 

[outcesticide69]

Well then you consider being gay a choice. You either have it or dont. to say that it is a choice, kinda goes against gays, and then it would be considered to be a moral issue rather than brain defect. So then, by that rational gays would be a step backwards, instead of sideways, in population growth and would be considered a threat to the human race, which i refuse to believe. To explore a person's sexual interests, is something that takes time to discover, but it never changes. People that are gay and are with a person of the opposite sex are only doing it to be accepted in society, not because they were opened up to the idea of being straight, thats how we get sexual confusion in young teens(last statement was just opinion, i have no facts to base anything off it, so dont ask any questions as to why i believe it).

But that does not answer the section of it being a result of Pavloving condtioning or normal sexual variation.

For Pavloving Conditioning:
It is no longer really a choice, lfe experience have set an individuals mind to have specific feelings and ideas due to life long conditioning due to experience. As Freud said "All people are inherently bisexual, our life experiences make us homosexual, hetrosexual or remain bisexual". It is not a choice, like a fear of clowns, for example, which seems from being assualted by a clown in your youth (Though I'm not saying people become gay due to abuse, that was just to illustrate one kind of conditioning). Why do you believe that this is a choice? How come you do not see this form of conditioning as uncontrollable?

For APA's theory:
Humans are still driven by instinctive urges which we don't have to act upon, however nearly all individuals act upon this urge, but the urge is still there, as you said,. So why couldn't it be a different neural set-up? Why do you see it to be a defect and not as a variation?

Its a defect, because it goes against primal instincts. Like i said before, look at rabbits, if some of them happened to be gay, then they wouldnt breed as much, and thats their only defense against predators (other animals mind, not the cool alien). Though I link this to all animals, if they became gay, we wouldnt see a lot of them. And if one of those pandas was gay, well i can honestly tell you, they wouldnt be around anymore. Also a defect would be considered as a different variation, a mutation if you will. Possibly to even out the population, who knows for sure. Im just taking what i know and from that, derive an answer.

But now you say it is a defect because it goes against survival instinct. As the human population grew the number of homosexuals increased, humanity is at a point of over-population. Why couldn't homosexuality be a natural development to reduce over population. Also I have done further research and enquired with a professor of Psychology at Monash Uni, and they told me that there is no previous or current research that says homosexuals have any different brain structure or any defects.

Well im just telling you how it is in my book, it doesnt go into a long discussion on it(about 5 or 6 pages), they call an abnormality. But like i said, i believe its a brain defect. Do i know what causes it? or why its there( population question i talked about before, its a possibility, but no supported facts behind it as of now.)? No, i dont, but its the best conclusion i have. Unless you got a better one. So i suppose with all facts put into it, its just an opinion that everyone needs to figure out for themselves. Ive told you all i can, now its just opinions, and hypotheses.

 

[Willwillwritehiswill]

I have no problem with gays and lesbians. Its funny how people pick on homosexuals, but no one makes fun or necropheliacs, pedophiles, zoopheliacs, guro freaks, lolicon fans, scatolphelia, beastiality, and rapists.

I totally make fun of all of those

It's certainly harder to argue for necrophiliacs rights.
"dead people are people too"
"she said she loved me when she was alive"
"finders keepers" etc...

 

[Timmehexas]

While I believe homosexuality to be a moral sin (I'm a Christian). I have no problems with homo\bisexuals, and I think that if they want to get married that should be their right. I believe that I nor anyone else have the right to dictate how someone lives their lives even if I disagree with their beliefs.

Jeez I like you, well I mean it's not like what you said is a giant hug but still it's great that you have your beliefs but still use your own judgement on how you treat other people. It's refreshing...

Well anyway I'm gay, and I don't like shoving it down peoples throats. *strangles the sexual innuendo before it escapes*

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

I apologise if I offended you, just reading the article it never mentioned a defect, I concede there is a difference in brain structure but all that shows is sexual attraction is hard wired and not a birth defect. However, I'm still sorry for offending you.

You didn't offend me. The is the internet. It'll take more than that to offend me here and you certainly don't even register as a blip on my radar. I don't want you to think i'm a reactionary arsehole, because i'm not. I'm just a regular arsehole.

I don't think you're any kind of arsehole, you deduction is understandable. I merely had a different opinion on what the article meant. You saw it shows defect where I see proof that which gender one is attracted to is caused by design, there is no defect in my view just that people who like men have one kind of brain and people who like women have a different kind. Niether is right or wrong, due to a lack of evidence for both, but both are debatable. I'm also very glad I cased you no offense, I enjoy discussions not arguments

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

Well im just telling you how it is in my book, it doesnt go into a long discussion on it(about 5 or 6 pages), they call an abnormality. But like i said, i believe its a brain defect. Do i know what causes it? or why its there( population question i talked about before, its a possibility, but no supported facts behind it as of now.)? No, i dont, but its the best conclusion i have. Unless you got a better one. So i suppose with all facts put into it, its just an opinion that everyone needs to figure out for themselves. Ive told you all i can, now its just opinions, and hypotheses.

Fair enough as I said to Will "You saw it shows defect where I see proof that which gender one is attracted to is caused by design, there is no defect in my view just that people who like men have one kind of brain and people who like women have a different kind". Neither is right or wrong due to a lack of evidence for both but both are still debatable.

 

[SageRuffin]

In the words of my lovely mother, who - or what - a person decides to sleep with is of no concern of mine. They certainly aren't keeping me from enjoying my life, why can't I let them enjoy theirs?