Grandpa Tastes Concrete Over Videogames

[Amnestic]

Yes, you're right. Assuming he did what he was supposed to. From a cursory glance (the only thing the media allows), and obviously I nor ANYONE here has the full story, it looks more like he got panic-y and made stupid choices rather than being willfully malicious. There is a difference. Not just for cops but for ANYONE those are two different mistakes/offenses with separate charges. Hard to prove though. Especially in the harsh court of public opinion.

There's a reason though; cops have more power and should be held to a higher standard. They're given training specifically so they don't panic and make mistakes which non-police otherwise might. Thus, when they do make a mistake, it's a large fall to take.

Doesn't particularly help that the reputation of the police with regards to excessive force hasn't been exactly great lately.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

Oh Buckeye, you never cease to amaze me!

I'm gonna have to hold judgement on this one, I would love to know what happened before all that, and that lovely video doesn't show that. How convenient. I'm also a little disgusted that the people there were too busy filming with their phones rather than helping.

 

[ace_of_something]

Yes, you're right. Assuming he did what he was supposed to. From a cursory glance (the only thing the media allows), and obviously I nor ANYONE here has the full story, it looks more like he got panic-y and made stupid choices rather than being willfully malicious. There is a difference. Not just for cops but for ANYONE those are two different mistakes/offenses with separate charges. Hard to prove though. Especially in the harsh court of public opinion.

There's a reason though; cops have more power and should be held to a higher standard. They're given training specifically so they don't panic and make mistakes which non-police otherwise might. Thus, when they do make a mistake, it's a large fall to take.

Doesn't particularly help that the reputation of the police with regards to excessive force hasn't been exactly great lately.

They are though.

That's why in addition to criminal charges they can have their pension fucked with or lose their job.

If most people make a dumbass mistake and go to jail for a weekend they don't lose their jobs and some of their retirement money.

 

[Amnestic]

Yes, you're right. Assuming he did what he was supposed to. From a cursory glance (the only thing the media allows), and obviously I nor ANYONE here has the full story, it looks more like he got panic-y and made stupid choices rather than being willfully malicious. There is a difference. Not just for cops but for ANYONE those are two different mistakes/offenses with separate charges. Hard to prove though. Especially in the harsh court of public opinion.

There's a reason though; cops have more power and should be held to a higher standard. They're given training specifically so they don't panic and make mistakes which non-police otherwise might. Thus, when they do make a mistake, it's a large fall to take.

Doesn't particularly help that the reputation of the police with regards to excessive force hasn't been exactly great lately.

They are though.

Not all the time they're not. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/la-lawmen-who-get-away-with-murder-police-force-with-reputation-for-shooting-first-and-asking-few-questions-faces-first-murder-charge-in-10-years-1441964.html]

By the people? Maybe. By the disciplinary system? It seems that a lot of them are more than willing to let the bad cops stay in the system when they should be rooting them out.

 

[Treblaine]

Ugh.

Why is it that nobody watches the watchmen.
Seriously, if there's anyone who needs more policing it's the police themselves.

What are we doing here other than watching? In fact, are the police the "watchmen" or is the media? If the media is the watchmen, who watches them?

I'm not declaring this cop completely innocent nor am I declaring him guilty, that is for a far fairer forum to decide such as a court of law. But the media are playing judge, jury and prosecution here, they are perverting the situation with their sensationalist coverage and who is holding their exaggerations to account? A democratic society depends on an informed society which is a vital role of the media but a society that is lied to and deceived is worse than if uninformed.

What we are seeing here is the same as when Fox-news broadcasts their propaganda about how awful games are and how they should be censored. But I'm not calling for censorship of the media, it's just that 3 months ago the media sensationally reported after an armed gangster was shot by the police as "public execution" it sparked off such a big riot it spread through through the country and the police were paralysed to stop it.

INFORMATION is the weapon here, these newspapers and media need to be publicly shamed for their sensationalism that is so inflammatory.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Yes, you're right. Assuming he did what he was supposed to. From a cursory glance (the only thing the media allows), and obviously I nor ANYONE here has the full story, it looks more like he got panic-y and made stupid choices rather than being willfully malicious. There is a difference. Not just for cops but for ANYONE those are two different mistakes/offenses with separate charges. Hard to prove though. Especially in the harsh court of public opinion.

There's a reason though; cops have more power and should be held to a higher standard. They're given training specifically so they don't panic and make mistakes which non-police otherwise might. Thus, when they do make a mistake, it's a large fall to take.

Doesn't particularly help that the reputation of the police with regards to excessive force hasn't been exactly great lately.

They are though.

Not all the time they're not. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/la-lawmen-who-get-away-with-murder-police-force-with-reputation-for-shooting-first-and-asking-few-questions-faces-first-murder-charge-in-10-years-1441964.html]

By the people? Maybe. By the disciplinary system? It seems that a lot of them are more than willing to let the bad cops stay in the system when they should be rooting them out.

As for the first case...yeah, I didn't see a problem with that. If the woman was armed with a knife while chanting 'For the blood of Jesus', it's not unreasonable to assume that she was hyped up on something. People who are on hard drugs tend to not go down with one, two, or even three bullets. The fact that they shot her (which probably caused her to fall and/or turn around from the impact), then continued to shoot her in order to make sure that she stayed down isn't wholly unreasonable. Also, according to the police and some of the witnesses, she made a hostile motion towards them. So...don't assault an officer while they have their gun drawn.

Second case. You do not assault an officer while they have their gun drawn. That's just common sense. Killing the kid for trying to assault them with a broom is a bit disproportionate, but not wholly unwarranted. Again, don't attack a police officer if they have their gun drawn.

Third case...again, don't try to assault an officer who has a gun out. And he must have, because you can't pull your gun out, ready it, then shoot someone who is rushing at you. (In training, you're told not to draw your gun if the target is within 25 feet of you, since they'll reach you before you can shoot them. Which is true.)

From reading that article, all I learned was 'Don't attack police officers who have their guns out'. Which...uh...yeah. Not exactly super bad corruption.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I have no sympathy for this man, if his Grandson was being 'trampled' by a crowd, then he should have just tossed the fucking game away, not stuffed it down his trousers, and he was being completely irresponsible in bringing his grandson to a WalMart on black Friday in the first place.

Clearly not fit to take care of children is he.

These Police men and women were just doing their job, good work.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

why? Well... you see how the public reacts to when a cop makes a mistake you think they need more ammo to ruin their life forever with?

Any worse than if a teacher/priest is accused of inappropriate behaviour? Or a journalist with misinterpreting facts?

The problem is that as soon as they close ranks, no one believes that justice will be done.

And, more importantly, the image to the public is of the police are doing that all time. It's just no-one ever admits it.

(Which I know is false, but placed next to the pepper-spray attacks on Occupy - what would be your opinion?)

Summation: Black Friday is a media invention that winds police/retail/public up into a frenzy.
Retail can't cope. Police are forced to cope. Incidents happen. Media wildly exaggerates. Police wildly play down. Police trust lost. Media win both ways. Next Black Friday needs to be worse.

Still gonna be a little child who remembers the day when his granddad was beaten like a terrorist though.

 

[Merkavar]

so.... he put a game in his waist band and was still inside the shop? like hadnt gone past the checkout or left the premises?

how is it shop lifting before you leave the store?

was he trying to conceal the game in his pants?

 

[Xealeon]

I find it hard to form a proper opinion about this without any decent facts. What with organizations being inclined to lie for PR reasons and eyewitness testimony being so horrendously unreliable the only two things I'm trusting in this story are "man gets arrested with video game in pants" and "police push man to ground". Everything between those two events, as far as I'm concerned, didn't happen until some proof appears.

Also it's nice to see another thread where everyone can jump to the "police are evil" card without any proof.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

I kinda feel sorry for the officers, too.
They were probably caught up in the usual frenzy, given how insane people can act these days.
What they did is hardly acceptable, but now they're going to be remembered as "those guys that tacked a grandpa" for a while.

 

[LordFisheh]

Good thing that an unbiased inquiry will be made into the officers' actions and that history shows how any wrongdoing will be punished and AHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

 

[Treblaine]

Okay. One question : If he was already cuffed, then how was he flailing his arms?

#1 where was it stated he was flailing his arms? and
#2 where was it stated he was cuffed before or as he went down?

The video shows him face down on the ground and THEN the police officer drawing cuffs and pulling the gentleman's hands out from underneath his body to cuff his wrists together. It is tempting to speculate, but how could he go down cuffed then be uncuffed, somehow have his arms under his body then have the officer take out handcuffs they just put away.

The point is, piecing together the various witness accounts and recorded evidence is something best done in a court of law, not an internet forum.

 

[DirgeNovak]

Don't you have to wait until someone walks out of a store with unpaid items before accusing them of shoplifting? I often put stuff in my pockets when I need both my hands and I don't have a cart or basket.

 

[Negatempest]

Any other day, I would have been offended. But this IS Black Friday we are talking about. Who is to say that the old man would not of been one of many that would of participated in trampling a civilian on the floor like last year?

p.s. Black Friday, Black Friday, Black Friday. The one day in the year that people are more of a dick than usual and have already been known to be destructive to others. So yeah, I approve of excessive police force on days like this.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Oh Buckeye, you never cease to amaze me!

I'm gonna have to hold judgement on this one, I would love to know what happened before all that, and that lovely video doesn't show that. How convenient. I'm also a little disgusted that the people there were too busy filming with their phones rather than helping.

Helping? After they'd just seen what happened to the last guy who 'helped the police with their enquiries'?

From what I've read someone did step forward and help, when they realised that as well as not knowing how to floor a cuffed man without sending him face first, they also somehow qualified without knowing basic first aid, coming forward when the man started to drown on his own blood in front of them.

Yes any member of the public can be unpredictable, but you dont throw them face first to ground after cuffing them, based on the fact that they might be a well disguised ninja.

I'm sure as hell not blaming 'the police' for this, but the individual officers in question sure as hell didn't help the image of the police.

They're supposed to serve the public, THEN uphold the law, if I remember right, or maybe I'm thinking of Robocop, who'd I'd trust to have dealt with a suspected shoplifter more gently.

I at least hope that if they injure an innocent man he gets his medical bills paid for. From what I've seen of America, one injury like that to a man with no savings and on minimum wage can pretty much destroy him financially.

People are always mocking the UK police for not carrying guns and other weaponry, but I can't help but feel the more you arm someone the more likely they are to use violence before reason.

Also, that kid's now probably terrified of policemen, after seeing what happened, that's going to take some getting over.

Thing is, we all know mistakes happen, we need them dealt with tho, not just swept under the carpet or there's less trust.

Innocent until proven guilty means he should be treated with respect until proven to not deserve it.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

Oh Buckeye, you never cease to amaze me!

I'm gonna have to hold judgement on this one, I would love to know what happened before all that, and that lovely video doesn't show that. How convenient. I'm also a little disgusted that the people there were too busy filming with their phones rather than helping.

Helping? After they'd just seen what happened to the last guy who 'helped the police with their enquiries'?

From what I've read someone did step forward and help, when they realised that as well as not knowing how to floor a cuffed man without sending him face first, they also somehow qualified without knowing basic first aid, coming forward when the man started to drown on his own blood in front of them.

Yes any member of the public can be unpredictable, but you dont throw them face first to ground after cuffing them, based on the fact that they might be a well disguised ninja.

I'm sure as hell not blaming 'the police' for this, but the individual officers in question sure as hell didn't help the image of the police.

They're supposed to serve the public, THEN uphold the law, if I remember right, or maybe I'm thinking of Robocop, who'd I'd trust to have dealt with a suspected shoplifter more gently.

I at least hope that if they injure an innocent man he gets his medical bills paid for. From what I've seen of America, one injury like that to a man with no savings and on minimum wage can pretty much destroy him financially.

People are always mocking the UK police for not carrying guns and other weaponry, but I can't help but feel the more you arm someone the more likely they are to use violence before reason.

Also, that kid's now probably terrified of policemen, after seeing what happened, that's going to take some getting over.

Thing is, we all know mistakes happen, we need them dealt with tho, not just swept under the carpet or there's less trust.

Innocent until proven guilty means he should be treated with respect until proven to not deserve it.

Sorry, I mean to say withhold, didn't re-read what I typed.

They could've grabbed something to wipe the blood off the guy's face, ask the cop if the guy needs medical help. Hell I don't know, other than just standing there like an idiot filming the whole thing, and making stupid comments.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm also a little disgusted that the people there were too busy filming with their phones rather than helping.

Helping? After they'd just seen what happened to the last guy who 'helped the police with their enquiries'?

.

Sorry, I mean to say withhold, didn't re-read what I typed.

They could've grabbed something to wipe the blood off the guy's face, ask the cop if the guy needs medical help. Hell I don't know, other than just standing there like an idiot filming the whole thing, and making stupid comments.

Entirely agree, and my first comment was me being flippant anyways, despite the entire thing just bringing me down. However, yes, maybe there was fear in getting involved after seeing how they were treating the guy. Someone did step forward and start assisting eventually, but often, crowds will just freeze up and watch until one snaps out of it and starts to do something.