Have you heard of a "Homosexual Therapist?"

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Just to add.
Nor is it physically harmful.
Yes it can be painful, but it doesn't cause any lasting harm or damage if done properly.

My point was that if done improperly, it can cause damage. But we still allow people to do it. Same with this. It's argued it can mentally hurt the people involved, but they've no proof that it will

Actually, last I checked, repressing sexuality does cause harm according to most psychologists.

But as I said earlier, if he is trying to help those who are straight and are simply confused, then more power to him, however if he is saying he can 'cure' homosexuality then I take issue, because those that do try to be 'cured' as it were, will end up worse because of it. Repressing sexuality should never be supported.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

From what I've read, he doesn't seem to be setting out with the purpose of 'curing' homosexuality, but trying to give people an option if they want it. And isn't saying "You have to be gay and that's that" as bad as saying "You have to be straight and that's that"? Doesn't a person have as much right to say they don't want to be gay as to say that they do?

You deserve a cookie ^^ *hands cookies*

 

[Canid117]

Could be. I know several ex-gays. One of them was gay for over a decade that I knew him. He has been married for six years and he just recently celebrated the birth of his second child. I think it's a lot more fluid than either side wants to admit. Then again these folks may be the exception that proves the rule. What do I know, I'm straight and always have been.

He may have just been bi. Bisexuals exist as it turns out.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Actually, last I check, repressing sexuality does cause harm according to mast psychologists.

In all cases, 100%, repressing sexuality causes harm? I... don't buy that. Not for all cases anyway.

He's not claiming that it's for everyone. If he were, you all would be in the right. He's giving another option to people who want it. We allow adults to engage in self-destructive behavior every single day. And yet it's this that you guys are stuck on.

Yes, the LGBT community. It becomes the business of everyone else when it supports homophobic views

WHY? It's a person's private life! You cannot have it both ways. Either private behavior can be other people's business, or it cannot be. Why does this bother you? Because it's a view you don't agree with?

The reason it bothers people is because him claiming that homosexuality can be changed is wrong. It is deluding, homosexuality is not a choice. Can't be bothered to link it because I'm lazy but most major psychological institutes agree. By encouraging the view that it can be changed, it lends credability to homophobic arguments based on that idea.

But that still is not your business. Which is what people forget!

This isn't some "send off your kid to pray away the gay" camp. This is two or more adults making a choice. Hear that: They are consenting adults. We've no business in what they do.

 

[Terminal Blue]

To be fair, he did make a point to say that he is in no way condemning homosexuality and for people who choose to accept it and live that lifestyle, more power to them. His mission is to help those that do not want to be gay. And curiously, for that, he is reviled by the gay community. According to his own testimony, he has been described by them as the number one enemy of the gay movement (which I could believe).

It's not curious at all.

1) Why do people have 'unwanted homosexual feelings'? We never speak of anyone having 'unwanted heterosexual feelings' (not to say it doesn't happen, in fact I'm pretty sure I've encountered people with such a thing, but it's unrecognizable and the thought of having a therapist to treat it is just an impossible level of stupidity).

It's not that the LGBT community wants people to be gay. It's not that anyone particularly mourns when a gay person has a successful heterosexual experience or heterosexual relationship. That's fine. Most non-heterosexual people are perfectly capable of accepting that human sexuality is quite fluid. What's disgusting, and what I'm slightly irritated that you seem to be completely blind to, is that we live in a society which is so hostile to homosexuality that people will actually pay money to some fucking quack with an entirely made-up disciplinary background to try and cure them. That's the problem. That's what needs fixing.

2) Why were the causes for these 'unwanted homosexual feelings' based on simplistic and offensive generalizations. The whole 'excessive maternal contact' hypothesis went out in the 19th century along with Krafft-Ebbing's 'psychic hermaphrodism', so why is this dickrag still peddling it?

Any idiot with a basic knowledge of sexuality based theory and research would know that human sexuality is extremely subtle and evades discreet categorization. Thus, yes, people do 'change sexual orientation' all the time (since dominant social understandings generally consider current object choice to be the sole determinant of sexual orientation). This is no miracle and no mystery. What's utterly offensive is to assume it only works one way.

A lot of people live with the consequences of the straight populations' general failure to deal with their insecure heterosexuality. If we can cure confused "ex-gays", why the fuck can't we do anything about them? Because actually, if you did I'm sure you'd get a lot more people with 'unwanted homosexual feelings' anyway.

 

[Chasing-The-Light]

I don't know... I don't know if I, as a lesbian, would consider him to be the 'number one enemy' of the gay community. I think if he wants to council people who don't want to be gay anymore, then he's in his right to help those people. Now, if he was one of those bigoted assholes who thinks he can 'cure' being gay with God, then I'd have an issue with him.

I was never molested or mistreated as a child by anyone. I'm close to BOTH my parents! My mom cause she's... well... my MOM, and my Dad because I'm just like him and we just kinda get each other. Sure my dad is an alcoholic, but not the crazy abusive kind! I seriously doubt that /THAT/, or the fact that I'm closer to either one of them, is the reason I'm gay. I hate people that think that people who are gay /MUST/ have had something happen to them as a child.

 

[orangeban]

Actually, last I check, repressing sexuality does cause harm according to mast psychologists.

In all cases, 100%, repressing sexuality causes harm? I... don't buy that. Not for all cases anyway.

He's not claiming that it's for everyone. If he were, you all would be in the right. He's giving another option to people who want it. We allow adults to engage in self-destructive behavior every single day. This is no different.

Yes, the LGBT community. It becomes the business of everyone else when it supports homophobic views

WHY? It's a person's private life! You cannot have it both ways. Either private behavior can be other people's business, or it cannot be. Why does this bother you? Because it's a view you don't agree with?

The reason it bothers people is because him claiming that homosexuality can be changed is wrong. It is deluding, homosexuality is not a choice. Can't be bothered to link it because I'm lazy but most major psychological institutes agree. By encouraging the view that it can be changed, it lends credability to homophobic arguments based on that idea.

But that still is not your business. Which is what people forget!

This isn't some "send off your kid to pray away the gay" camp. This is two or more adults making a choice. Hear that: They are consenting adults. We've no business in what they do.

No, I just explained why it was my business. A) it colours peoples perception of homosexuals (from, they are born that way to either, they chose that, or they could be straight if they wanted which is a *big* difference.)

B) he was goddam baiting people, "I'm public enemy number one in gay peoples eyes!" (which carries the sub-tone "What unreasonable dicks!") Oh come on, how can people not challenge that. What I really want is this dudes name, I reckon with a bit of scrounging I can come up with something that shows this guys horseshit.

 

[orangeban]

I don't know... I don't know if I, as a lesbian, would consider him to be the 'number one enemy' of the gay community. I think if he wants to council people who don't want to be gay anymore, then he's in his right to help those people. Now, if he was one of those bigoted assholes who thinks he can 'cure' being gay with God, then I'd have an issue with him.

I was never molested or mistreated as a child by anyone. I'm close to BOTH my parents! My mom cause she's... well... my MOM, and my Dad because I'm just like him and we just kinda get each other. Sure my dad is an alcoholic, but not the crazy abusive kind! I seriously doubt that /THAT/, or the fact that I'm closer to either one of them, is the reason I'm gay. I hate people that think that people who are gay /MUST/ have had something happen to them as a child.

Holy crap, can't believe I missed the sentence where he blamed homosexuality on molestation. I also hate this view that if someones gay *something* must of happened to mess them up, I mean, if they were normal they wouldn't be gay, right? Right?

 

[dyre]

I've got nothing against him having a private practice regarding sexuality confusion, but when he says he's viewed as the "number one enemy of the gay movement," that rings a few alarms. Not just because I wasn't aware the "gay movement," whatever that is, has a Most-Wanted list, but because it seems like he's trying to turn his private practice into a political statement by attempting to paint the "gay movement" as some kind of evil group hell-bent on taking down his innocent, helpful therapeutic practice.

So, nothing against the practice itself, but the guy seems a little shady.

 

[dyre]

I've got nothing against him having a private practice regarding sexuality confusion, but when he says he's viewed as the "number one enemy of the gay movement," that rings a few alarms. Not just because I wasn't aware the "gay movement," whatever that is, has a Most-Wanted list, but because it seems like he's trying to turn his private practice into a political statement by attempting to paint the "gay movement" as some kind of evil group hell-bent on taking down his innocent, helpful therapeutic practice.

So, nothing against the practice itself, but the guy seems a little shady.

 

[Murais]

Yes, and, as it so happens, my therapist is a homosexual. Which is what I thought this thread was about.

He's a great guy.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

And from his point of view, he is helping people. If someone genuinely does not want to be gay, then why should they be forced to be? We don't tell transgender people that they cannot under any circumstances be the opposite sex, do we?

Not the same thing. He's deluding people into thinking that they can change their sexual orientation and that's just cruel. He's an incompetant therapist, there are far more adept professionals who would actually help them through their issues and with time and patience will help the patients to accept themselves for who they are. Sex change operations are a viable option, you can't change your sexuality even if you want to. Also: 'The current consensus among scholars is that sexual orientation is not a choice.[5][6][7] No simple, single cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, but research suggests that it is by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,[8] with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment.[9]' That's from the Wikipedia article on Sexual orientation, it provides links to other websites that expand on this and I'm sure any psychological association will also affirm this. The important thing to emphasise hear is that the psychological and scientific community are in agreement that sexual orientation is not a choice.

No, it says its effected by BOTH environmental and genetic factors, therefor, yes, it can be a choice. Take a psychology class, thats one of the first things you learn. Nothing about a person or their personality is strictly unchangeable. It's like tanning. They were BORN white, they don't want to be that shade, ergo they change it. And before you begin, yes, they are the same, they can both damage you mentally if done wrong and physically if done REALLY wrong, like anything in life.

Not what I'd call the best analogy. Also, in regard to environmental factors your choices may contribute to or shape your sexuality but these are not conscious choices. You can't dictate the gender(s) you are attracted to. I'm bisexual and as a result of having a crush on a straight male friend my life is fucking miserable at the moment. I don't want to be attracted to him but I can't help it. And what do you mean by 'it can be a choice' are you really saying that some people can and some people can't choose their sexuality and it's just a random lottery as to which you come out as? If so, then I'm sorry but I find that assertion rather ridiculous.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

No, I just explained why it was my business. A) it colours peoples perception of homosexuals (from, they are born that way to either, they chose that, or they could be straight if they wanted which is a *big* difference.)

He's saying they can if they want to be. He's not demanding it. He's allowing people to make their own choice. That's a far cry from "cure all gays"

Further, your point is "It affects other's opinion of a group!" is piss poor justification at best to messing with what people do on their own time.

B) he was goddam baiting people, "I'm public enemy number one in gay peoples eyes!" (which carries the sub-tone "What unreasonable dicks!") Oh come on, how can people not challenge that. What I really want is this dudes name, I reckon with a bit of scrounging I can come up with something that shows this guys horseshit.

Yes, that's stupid of him. But I bet you and I are just playing into his hands.

Spoiler

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

I don't know... I don't know if I, as a lesbian, would consider him to be the 'number one enemy' of the gay community. I think if he wants to council people who don't want to be gay anymore, then he's in his right to help those people. Now, if he was one of those bigoted assholes who thinks he can 'cure' being gay with God, then I'd have an issue with him.

I was never molested or mistreated as a child by anyone. I'm close to BOTH my parents! My mom cause she's... well... my MOM, and my Dad because I'm just like him and we just kinda get each other. Sure my dad is an alcoholic, but not the crazy abusive kind! I seriously doubt that /THAT/, or the fact that I'm closer to either one of them, is the reason I'm gay. I hate people that think that people who are gay /MUST/ have had something happen to them as a child.

Holy crap, can't believe I missed the sentence where he blamed homosexuality on molestation. I also hate this view that if someones gay *something* must of happened to mess them up, I mean, if they were normal they wouldn't be gay, right? Right?

He's not saying something MUST have happened, hes saying it can confuse genetically straight people, who want to be straight. Not everyone is taking a swing at us, some are just trying to help people who genuinely AREN'T gay. Just as homosexual and bisexual people can be convinced they aren't due to environmental forces, the same CAN happen to heterosexual people.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Actually, last I check, repressing sexuality does cause harm according to mast psychologists.

In all cases, 100%, repressing sexuality causes harm? I... don't buy that. Not for all cases anyway.

He's not claiming that it's for everyone. If he were, you all would be in the right. He's giving another option to people who want it. We allow adults to engage in self-destructive behavior every single day. This is no different.

Fair enough, everyone is different, and maybe some aren't affected to bad by repressing their sexuality, but I think most are. But that's just me, I may be wrong, who knows.

Again though, as I said, I have no real problem with him, as he does seem to be saying it's for those that are straight and are confused. But how he has said it seems to be supporting homophobic views that it is purely a choice, and that people should choose not to be gay. Which I doubt he means to.

But I don't want to get into an argument about whether it is a choice or not, as I am very tired of that argument and it has no place here.

So basically, in short, I'd say repressing anything about yourself isn't good for you, whether it be apparent or not. Because you are not choosing to be true to yourself.

As for the people who do think that they don't want to be gay, then fair enough it is their choice to feel that way, however I'd think they'd be more happy if they embraced how they are (assuming they are gay and not simply straight and confused), as almost all the time, people who do feel terrible for being gay, it is people around them's fault for making them think like that, if people would just stop caring about peoples sexuality then we wouldn't need these 'Homosexual therapists'.

 

[Chasing-The-Light]

I don't know... I don't know if I, as a lesbian, would consider him to be the 'number one enemy' of the gay community. I think if he wants to council people who don't want to be gay anymore, then he's in his right to help those people. Now, if he was one of those bigoted assholes who thinks he can 'cure' being gay with God, then I'd have an issue with him.

I was never molested or mistreated as a child by anyone. I'm close to BOTH my parents! My mom cause she's... well... my MOM, and my Dad because I'm just like him and we just kinda get each other. Sure my dad is an alcoholic, but not the crazy abusive kind! I seriously doubt that /THAT/, or the fact that I'm closer to either one of them, is the reason I'm gay. I hate people that think that people who are gay /MUST/ have had something happen to them as a child.

Holy crap, can't believe I missed the sentence where he blamed homosexuality on molestation. I also hate this view that if someones gay *something* must of happened to mess them up, I mean, if they were normal they wouldn't be gay, right? Right?

Yeah. xD I hated when I came out to my family their first question was, "Did... did anyone touch you?" NO!!!!! URGH! Seriously, people!!! I'm not saying there aren't people out there that have homosexual tendencies because of stuff that happened in their past but that doesn't apply to ALL of us!! Jeez...

Yeah, but sometimes it feels like unless you grew up in the 50's idea of what a family is supposed to be, then you did not have a good childhood. I don't understand society and it's people sometimes....

 

[Terminal Blue]

Oh come on, how can people not challenge that. What I really want is this dudes name, I reckon with a bit of scrounging I can come up with something that shows this guys horseshit.

1) The fact that he refers to himself as a 'homosexual therapist', an unprotected term with no meaning and no professional standard. You could teach a parrot to call itself a 'homosexual therapist' and it would carry as much weight.

Professional therapists are members of exclusive regulatory bodies which grant them the right to use protected terms. Quacks buy mail order doctorates and make up titles for themselves.

2) The fact that his understanding of sexuality seems to come from obsolete generalizations and a loose understanding of personal experience rather than any real clinical research or relevant psychological theory.

3) The general principle which one should take when purchasing a service. "If it sounds too good to be true.."

If there was a psychologically harmless way to turn miserable gay people into happy straight people, it would have happened, and we probably would never have had electroshock and forced castration to try and achieve what this guy claims he can achieve by employing simplistic tropes about gay people which sound like they were crib noted from a rough guide to 19th century sexology.

 

[The Thinker]

I don't agree with people when they say that they shouldn't be condemned for their belief in god, at it is just that, their belief. I think that belief in god designates lower intelligence. Because a belief in god predicates everything on that entity; yes, laws of physics can still co-exist with god as it supposedly created them or whatever. But belief in god shows a level of certainty--audacity--that I'm just not willing to forgive. It shows a level of ignorance regarding epistemology that I am simply not willing to look past. So, yeah, while I won't condemn you for your belief in god, I will, no matter what you do, hold you with some degree of contempt. Not that you should care, though.

I would think that, but... it just seems... evil. Or heartless. Or perhaps just futile, with the amount of people who believe in such things. Besides their inferior application-of-logic-to-probably-irrelevant-beliefs-skill, they're just people. Like you or me.

Speaking of me, (Heh heh. Smooth tie-in.) I go like this: Have I found evidence of a god? If not: Has the scientific community proved a god's existence? If not: Continue not believing.

OT: Seems like some people might be losing money because of a misconception. But I'll leave that to the philosophers. And people who know more than me.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

I've never really bought into the argument that people are born homosexual.

Then you are wrong. Try and get a straight guy to watch gay porn and see what happens. He will be limp, whereas a gay/bi man would be aroused as that is their natural reaction to it. It's not something we can help, if people could choose their sexuality then no-one would want to pick an orientation that will potentially make them victims of descrimination and ostracised amonst their friends.

OT: People are right to be upset with him. He's helping people to repress their sexuality, which is not healthy. Worse still, he could be using his experiences to help people find themselves, discover their sexuality and tackle the issues they have. Repressing sexuality does not tackle their issues it only creates more.

In no way whatsoever does your example show that people are born gay or straight.

I didn't say it was a conscious choice, just that people are not born one way or the other.

And from his point of view, he is helping people. If someone genuinely does not want to be gay, then why should they be forced to be? We don't tell transgender people that they cannot under any circumstances be the opposite sex, do we?

Just to let you know, I'm with you on this one. I'm firmly convinced that the taking the attitude of "this is just how I am, I was born this way, and I can't change it" with anything (be it your weight, your sexual preference, your outlook on life, whatever) is the lazy man's way out. If you don't like something about yourself, you have the ability to change it. Period. Nothing about one's life is etched in stone, for you are the sum of your experiences, nothing more or less.

I don't think anyone but you should be allowed to decide whether or not you are gay. So I'm glad that this guy is around to enable those who don't want homosexual thoughts to get rid of them. By the same token, I don't think anyone should be forced into these kinds of sessions if they are comfortable being the way they already are.