Have you noticed that in some of the best films of all time, women play small roles or are tomboys?
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I like how you start out with a premise and then go off and pick and choose a bunch of movies to prove your point. Then you set a rather silly limitation and get caught up in semantics so thatsome of the evidence on the contrary can be discounted.
Not to mention to come up with contrary evidence we now need to look towards the delicate female stereotype; who doesn?t work in the armed services, the emergency services, on a farm etc... Basically anything that might include physical activity, manual labour or some form of danger because that makes them a tomboy and for some reason that makes the example not count.
Not to mention to come up with contrary evidence we now need to look towards the delicate female stereotype; who doesn?t work in the armed services, the emergency services, on a farm etc... Basically anything that might include physical activity, manual labour or some form of danger because that makes them a tomboy and for some reason that makes the example not count.
This should probably be in the off-topic section since it isn't about gaming.
But I'll join in.
Okay, these movies you have selected, are they listed as the "top movies of all time" or are they your personal favorites and you like to associate with male leads?
How about these films: Golden Compass, Narnia, Labyrinth, Stardust, Cardcaptor Sakura: The Movie, or even 300? (Note that Gorgo was attempting to rally the city while her husband was out fighting, very important, very believable, and a great part of a husband/wife team).
Mind you, you are tying one hand behind our backs since you are not acknowledging the Warrior/Amazon aspect of women. You won't find many Southern belles acting all feminine and being part of something like Saving Private Ryan. But I don't see men in business suits being the lead there either. You have to look at the genre.
So let's go there: Gone with the Wind-a well known classic, Memoirs of a Geisha, The Grudge, The Ring, Descent, V for Vendetta, X-Men (Storm was still quite feminine in this one), Lady Hawke, Dune with its Benejezeret Witches, The Princess Bride, Pirates of the Caribbean, Mama Mia, Titanic (Not a "tom boy" since she wears dresses and jewelry she is just an adventurous woman see Tank Girl for comparison), Wuthering Heights (another classic), Ghost, The Lady in Red, The Devil Wears Prada, Basic Instinct, Driving Miss Daisy, Fried Green Tomatoes, Akeela and the Bee, The Secret Language of Bees, The Color Purple, Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Joyluck Club, Australia, Precious.
Don't tell me you haven't seen Precious!
You bring up Shawshank Redemption which is set in a male prison. That's like adding women to Hunt for Red October. I don't expect them to be there nor should they be, the setting doesn't allow for it. But you skipped Schindler's List if the little girl in the red coat didn't move you I will be shocked. And that isn't including the women trying to hide the children in the privies or the maid who was being stalked by the master of the house.
Now, if we accept that women can be aggressive and still be feminine we can add: The Matrix, The Legend of Zorro, Tank Girl, Twelfth Night, Willow, and Long Kiss Goodnight.
Now if you acknowledge even the tomboys as being girls we can add: Tank Girl, Bonnie and Clyde, Thelma and Louise, Hell Boy, Battle Royale, Kill Bill, G.I. Jane, and The General's Daughter.
How about miniseries or television series: Dinotopia, Weeds, TruBlood, Rome, and the upcoming Game of Thrones? (Yes, you can BET on that one!)
So women are out there in good films with female leads. I think the question is: do you watch them?
But I'll join in.
Okay, these movies you have selected, are they listed as the "top movies of all time" or are they your personal favorites and you like to associate with male leads?
How about these films: Golden Compass, Narnia, Labyrinth, Stardust, Cardcaptor Sakura: The Movie, or even 300? (Note that Gorgo was attempting to rally the city while her husband was out fighting, very important, very believable, and a great part of a husband/wife team).
Mind you, you are tying one hand behind our backs since you are not acknowledging the Warrior/Amazon aspect of women. You won't find many Southern belles acting all feminine and being part of something like Saving Private Ryan. But I don't see men in business suits being the lead there either. You have to look at the genre.
So let's go there: Gone with the Wind-a well known classic, Memoirs of a Geisha, The Grudge, The Ring, Descent, V for Vendetta, X-Men (Storm was still quite feminine in this one), Lady Hawke, Dune with its Benejezeret Witches, The Princess Bride, Pirates of the Caribbean, Mama Mia, Titanic (Not a "tom boy" since she wears dresses and jewelry she is just an adventurous woman see Tank Girl for comparison), Wuthering Heights (another classic), Ghost, The Lady in Red, The Devil Wears Prada, Basic Instinct, Driving Miss Daisy, Fried Green Tomatoes, Akeela and the Bee, The Secret Language of Bees, The Color Purple, Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Joyluck Club, Australia, Precious.
Don't tell me you haven't seen Precious!
You bring up Shawshank Redemption which is set in a male prison. That's like adding women to Hunt for Red October. I don't expect them to be there nor should they be, the setting doesn't allow for it. But you skipped Schindler's List if the little girl in the red coat didn't move you I will be shocked. And that isn't including the women trying to hide the children in the privies or the maid who was being stalked by the master of the house.
Now, if we accept that women can be aggressive and still be feminine we can add: The Matrix, The Legend of Zorro, Tank Girl, Twelfth Night, Willow, and Long Kiss Goodnight.
Now if you acknowledge even the tomboys as being girls we can add: Tank Girl, Bonnie and Clyde, Thelma and Louise, Hell Boy, Battle Royale, Kill Bill, G.I. Jane, and The General's Daughter.
How about miniseries or television series: Dinotopia, Weeds, TruBlood, Rome, and the upcoming Game of Thrones? (Yes, you can BET on that one!)
So women are out there in good films with female leads. I think the question is: do you watch them?
One of my favorite movies is 500 Days of Summer and Zooey Deschanel was int that allot. but it was a relationship film (it was NOT a romantic comedy).
1. This has no buisness in "Game Discussion"
2. Why is this an issue? I'm pretty sure that the oppisite can be said of many films as well.
2. Why is this an issue? I'm pretty sure that the oppisite can be said of many films as well.
Aren't you being sexist by suggesting they're tomboyish? Who's to say acting ?tomboyish? (in your eyes) is not how women are, and want to be seen? Maybe you think there should be more feminine woman in these movies? Or, should I say the male ideal of a feminine woman? Maybe the men are supposed to be more feminine? So what you really want to say is all those top movies have men in them who were being too masculine. Be careful when you attach labels because they all look different from different perspectives.me and my dog said:
In almost everyone of those films a woman's influence had shaped those characters and personalities. The woman herself may not be on screen by her impact on the character is implied and could be understood if you considered it. So maybe you should watch them again thinking about the woman or lack of female contact that shaped those characters. It's essential to understanding who they really are and how they came to be. Do you really think Daniel Plainview would be the same character with or without a wife?
Let's take a look at a more recent film - Inception.
In the end, the female lead is ultimately the most crucial aspect of the plot, and the whole of the film leads up to the confrontation with her rather than the all-action closing sequence. The character of the architect (Ariadne) is also a very strong one, yet not tomboyish. Overall that film proves very well that there can be strong female lead characters still in an action film context.
In the end, the female lead is ultimately the most crucial aspect of the plot, and the whole of the film leads up to the confrontation with her rather than the all-action closing sequence. The character of the architect (Ariadne) is also a very strong one, yet not tomboyish. Overall that film proves very well that there can be strong female lead characters still in an action film context.
Casablanca and Star Wars are two that don't adhere to that. Slumdog Millionare doesn't (the girl is only there too much, but she is vitally important; that is no small role).
War movies like Saving Private Ryan wouldn't make sense with women, as there were no women in the army at the time. They have an excuse.
Pan's Labyrinth definitely features women. I freaking love that film.
Trinity plays a huge role in The Matrix.
Mary is very important to Equilibrium.
Just to name a few.
War movies like Saving Private Ryan wouldn't make sense with women, as there were no women in the army at the time. They have an excuse.
Pan's Labyrinth definitely features women. I freaking love that film.
Trinity plays a huge role in The Matrix.
Mary is very important to Equilibrium.
Just to name a few.
SDcill said:
Dcill said:
Uh yes he probably would be the same person since having a son did not seem to change his personality.floppylobster said:
So, you listed "great" movies with few to no important females, then list some films that do have important females, then deny some people's examples against you because they aren't "great" films... sounds more like there are just a decent number of good films with little significant female presence, rather than all of them. Even if it is the majority, that's hardly amazing; women have historically been treated as inferior and receive the same treatment as underrepresented minorities (even though they aren't one) today, in all forms of media and even, to some degree, in real life.
Also specifically, Shawshank Redemption took place in a men's prison. There were scenes outside said prison, which depicted few to no characters who were not in the prison earlier. They shouldn't have been expected to feature women unless you want them to shoehorn some interaction with a woman into the plot for no reason but to have a female character. You might as well argue that the movie under represents humans who are neither prisoners nor prison workers. It's true, but no one would expect a film about a prison to feature a lot of non-prison related people.
Also specifically, Shawshank Redemption took place in a men's prison. There were scenes outside said prison, which depicted few to no characters who were not in the prison earlier. They shouldn't have been expected to feature women unless you want them to shoehorn some interaction with a woman into the plot for no reason but to have a female character. You might as well argue that the movie under represents humans who are neither prisoners nor prison workers. It's true, but no one would expect a film about a prison to feature a lot of non-prison related people.