How comes gamers are "entitled" when they don't get what they expect from a product?

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StriderShinryu

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Dec 8, 2009
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Nimzabaat said:
You can finish an entire meal, watch most of a movie, drive a car, heck most furniture places have up to a 90 day return policy. You can get hands on with so many more things than games and still return them if you don't like them. As well, let's put this out as an example, ME2 was sold on the strength of ME. ME2 sucked big hairy goa... anyways I want my money back. But I can't have my money back even though it's a clear case of false advertising and paid off reviewers saying good things because... well they've been paid. Yes I think i've hit the nail on the head as to why gamers should feel entitled. Devs should offer refunds on bad games or be open to fixing them (and not just bug fixes, though ME2 and 3 need a ton of those).
That's the issue though. If you bought ME2 simply because you liked ME1, despite even Bioware themselves stating beforehand that things had changed and previews/reviews proving them right, why is it Bioware's fault? Gamers should certainly expect solid quality products when they put their money down (and many people do put ME2 in that category) but if they buy something they don't like even after everyone has told them they probably won't like it, they have to take some of the blame.

Sure you can watch most of a movie and walk out and maybe get a refund, or eat most of meal and speak to the manager and maybe get the same. I'm not arguing that point at all. But let's say you absolutely hate eating steak and yet go to s steakhouse for dinner. You might get your money back if you complain to the manager but is it really their fault you didn't enjoy the meal? The plethora of information available about a game both before and after it's release is no different than the sign above the restaurant door that says "we only serve steak."

To me the sense of over entitlement in gamers comes not from the fact that they can't get a refund on something they buy but don't enjoy. It comes from believing that every experience a game company provides has to be exactly tailored to their tastes and that once a company does a certain thing one way they can never do anything differently in the future.

(It also comes from a common misunderstanding of just how expensive games are to make and how that required funding is generated, but that's more on the DLC entitlement issue than what we're talking about here)
 

Burst6

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Elmoth said:
I never said I liked it. But they can get away with it. I don't mind people resisting the idea. I just don't see that making a difference. Besides I'm done spending money on Bioware. Mass Effect 2 is were they lost my respect.
Well it made a difference with you didn't it?

There must have been some outside information to help you make that decision.
 

deathbydeath

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Fappy said:
hazabaza1 said:
OH MY CHRIST YES WE KNOW MASS EFFECT 3'S ENDING SUCKS JESUS LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE
Sorry, I just got a bit worked up.
It was so bad we're still recovering from the fallout. Every game forum is going to look like Chernobyl for the next month.
Where's GSC when you need them? We could make a good shooter out of this.

OP: Two words to people whining about the cost of games: Steam Sales.

Every problem solved.
 

Darkeagle6

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Nov 12, 2008
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Part of the problem with this debate, and it's been said before, is that people fail to realise that the physical or digital means of distribution of a game are not the one and same thing as the game itself. You are paying to play the game. The disc (or downloaded files etc.) are the means through which you access that game.

Day-1 DLC which appears on disc (or is downloaded with the game etc. again) is not any different in principle than Day-1 DLC (or any DLC, really) which you would have to download independently, except it's more convenient because if you purchase it, it's already there and you don't have to download a huge file separately.

Either way, the company sells you the main game, and offers bonus content for a separate, smaller fee if you want to add to the experience of that game. You pay for the experience of paying that game. You're not paying for files or DVDs. That disc isn't worth 60$; it's the game itself which is given that price by the publisher. It's allowed to charge separately for additive content if it wants, and you shouldn't just get that content for free just because it's on the disc. That content doesn't have to be part of the price you pay for the main game if the publisher decides so. So long as the publisher is not lying to you about what you're getting, it's not inherently doing anything wrong.

Now, you're perfectly allowed to disagree with these buisness practices. I'm not a big fan of them either, for that matter. Criticize them all you want; there's nothing wrong with that.

As I see it, the main way in which gamers tend to act unbearably entitled is in the way they act as though the bonus content is *owed* to them, because they're buying the game. Every time a game launches with day-1 DLC, a bunch of people raise a shitstorm of whining over it, claiming that the publisher is witholding what is rightfully theirs (regardless of the words used, this is almost invariably what is implied). There's a difference between complaining about a buisness model and acting as though the company *owes* you anything other than the game you paid for. Again, you don't pay for a disc. You pay for a game, which is distributed through a disc.

The biggest problem with this, as other people have pointed out, is that so many of these gamers go and buy the games that use these "scandalous" buisness practices anyway. They whine and whine and whine about it, but support the company and the product that allegedly disrespects them because no matter how bothered they are by the way the publisher treats them, they can't live without their videogame.

You don't like the DLC deal? That's fine. Let your discontent be known. Hell, use the wonderful communication tool known as the internet to reach out to others who feel the same, convince those who are on the fence, and send mass letters to the publishers and let them know directly that you disaprove of their methods and that you refuse to buy their products until they change. And then STICK TO THAT. Don't buy the game. Agree to it as a community. If it works, then great. You'll have used your power as a consumer to sway the publisher. If it doesn't, then you either stick to your guns and don't buy the publisher's games anymore (or only the ones that dont't use the buisness model) Or you accept that that's how they're going to sell their products and live with it.

These are video games; they're not basic necessities. If you needed AAA video games to live, then practices like these could be really problematic. But you don't. They're luxury items, which you are privileged to play. Hell, you can get a ton of great videogames for free or cheap today. The fact that people are acting as though their basic human rights are being violated by these game publishers (barely an exaggeration in some cases) is why gamers are being called entitled.

Not to mention the gross allegations, in some cases, that the people who make the game make no effort whatsoever, don't put in love in their work anymore, etc. How insulting is that?
 

irishda

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endtherapture said:
Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?
Barring your metaphor, gamers don't purchase a product in the sense that other things are "products". Gamers are buying a creative work, which is different because there's no specific end purpose for creative works as there are for other consumer products. Creative works are already in the public domain when they're released, and, since there's no objective way of saying they did or didn't do something because remember they don't have a specific purpose (wash dishes, keep food cold), it's impossible to prove they've failed as a product.

And remember, no matter how many people whine about how the ending of ME should be different, there's always another group of people that either like the endings or accepted them. And, by complaining that Bioware should change the game, you're implying that you deserve to be made happy at the expense of that second group of people. That's why you would be called entitled, because you'd ruin someone else's fun for your own gain.
 

endtherapture

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TheKasp said:
endtherapture said:
How can I vote with my wallet if I've already bought the game?

I've been a big enough person to buy the game legally and have faith in the publisher enough to risk money on the game.

Then if the game is shit and I don't like it, how can I show my displeasure? I certainly can't return the game can I?

So how do gamers show their opinion? They have to review bomb games to show their displeasure. It's the only way because we can't return games if we don't like them.
---> Inform yourself before you spend your money <---

So hard to understand? Don't risk money on first day purchases, wait for reviews form reviewer that have the same preferences as you (in my case is it, unbelievable enough, yahtzee. He always points out the flaws that would break my fun), keep your eyes open for controversy like... well, how about the ME 3 endings? You did not need to see spoilers to get the vibe that they may be shit before release.

Don't be a bloody drone and just inform yourself. I ride on this train for about 7 years now and have not regrettet one purchase. Oh wait, you are already a reviewbombing drone... Forget it, have your whiny way.
I didn't reviewbomb, I gave ME3 a 7 on Metacritic, I don't think that's reviewbombing.

I also pre ordered the game due to enjoying the last 2 games in the series. The ending left a sour taste in my mouth. If you expect me to look up the entire story of the game online before making a decision to play it, well that's just fucking stupid.

Anyway reviewers have different opinions. Yatzhee said The Witcher was a terrible game and it should be avoided. I for one got really engrossed and enjoyed it.
 

TheProfessor234

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Aug 20, 2010
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Honestly, it's just like anything else on the internet.

Someone used the word entitled, at the right place and time, and it hit like wild fire. Anything else successful on the internet is like that, dumb luck/good timing.

Then again, I can't think of any good synonyms for entitled so maybe it was the only word to use.
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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Capitano Segnaposto said:
I have always thought of it as this:

Gaming is a Hobby, albeit an expensive one.

You don't have the money for this hobby? Get a new one.

Rude, crude, but it gets the point across.
Y'know that paragraph made me instantly think of Games Workshop so much... Expensive hobby is an understatement in that department. Want your amazing Spess Mehreen army? Pay through about five noses to get it.


Annnnnnd on topic in 3, 2, 1.

Oh my, when did this "entitled" nonsense take over teh interwebz? Yes that day one DLC is quite questionable ethically speaking. That's why i didn't buy it. You see how consumerism works? Plus 800 MS points? Pfft get outta here.

You don't hear me whining about it. (except for now but shut up)

And yes some people are being overzeelous in their epic "WEH WHANT NW ENDING NAO!" and/or generally being dicks about everything ME3 related. How about you respect Bioware's artisic integrity a little bit hmm?

Personally I would like Bioware to adopt (or indeed continue with if it was their original plan) the Indoctrination Theory, it is really interesting and actually makes quite a bit of sense. Ending DLC (free or no) is basically guaranteed and the IT seems the best course of action storywise. People are going to ***** about that too, probably in some new exciting way.

Basically there is a minority of extreme dicks on both sides (as always) and they're being fucking loud.

And Marauder Shields needs a mention in upcoming whatevers at least, hopefully his own DLC to accomodate his awesomeness. Never forget. He held the line.

Now how about that Aria vs TIM DLC they were obviously foreshadowing? Sounds fun right!
 

Gamer_152

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You know what, yes, if games are not including key features and those features are being sold separately, that's a problem, but people are making nonsensical arguments that they deserve any and all DLC developed before the release of a game, no matter how much money they're paying for the main product.
 

HalfTangible

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romxxii said:
Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.
Somebody didn't do their homework. -.-

1)ME3 was finished as a whole months before it actually came out.
2)Javik required certain framework elements and models to be on the disk to integrate into the game properly.
3)Placing that framework on the disk was simple. But placing Javik (who frankly was very unnecessary anyway) onto the game would have required months of extra work.

They did something similar with Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2. Stop whining about it.
 

Jodah

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I think the problem is the differing ideas of what "core game" means. To some people only that which is needed to finish the main story line is the core game. To others anything that has a meaningful impact on the game is the core game.

Mimsofthedawg said:
HalfTangible said:
romxxii said:
Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.
Somebody didn't do their homework. -.-

1)ME3 was finished as a whole months before it actually came out.
2)Javik required certain framework elements and models to be on the disk to integrate into the game properly.
3)Placing that framework on the disk was simple. But placing Javik (who frankly was very unnecessary anyway) onto the game would have required months of extra work.

They did something similar with Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2. Stop whining about it.
Not only that but if Javik was on the disc already, what the hell was the 500 megabyte download when I purchased the DLC?

Not that I cared either way...
From what I've read that 500 megabytes is the quest to recruit him and possibly some tweaks. Javik alone, without his quest, can be unlocked just using the disk though.
 

DirgeNovak

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Jul 23, 2008
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For fuck's sake, English isn't even my first language and I know the difference between being entitled and having entitlement issues...

Being entitled means having a legal right to something, i.e. you are entitled to seeing a lawyer if you are arrested.

Having entitlement issues is acting like you have a legal right to something when you clearly don't, i.e. registering a motherfucking complaint to the FTC because you don't like how a video game's story ended.

Please learn your own language, people.

OT: The subgroup of gamers you are referring to have entitlement issues because they complain about artists not respecting the fanfiction they built in their heads and demand that they modify their own creation.

A lot of those same people complain about day-one DLC while still buying it, or complain about streamlining role-playing elements while still buying the game.
I can have some measure of respect for someone who considers those things unethical and don't buy the game and/or DLC in consequence, but if you bought them, you have no right complaining about EA's practices, and if you do, that makes you a prick... with entitlement issues!

Also, congrats to the OP for making a Mass Effect 3 thread without mentioning Mass Effect 3.
 

Rylian

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Dec 7, 2008
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No, but as a consumer, I deserve a game which is high-quality from start to finish. Just as I expect a book I purchase to be well-written and edited until the end and have some final resolution, so I expect with a game.

Settling quietly for mediocrity begets more mediocrity.

So, as Bioware has burned me twice in a row now with games which did not feature quality throughout, they will not receive one more penny from me.