I am curious...why should God "have to be provable"?

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ILPPendant

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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
You said:

" no matter how many years you spend as a priest or any other kind of religious minister, you still have nothing material to show for your efforts."

The things priest and other kinds of religious ministers do are in a sense part of "disciplines like ethics and philosophy."
Sorry, you lost me.

By that quote, I was trying to differentiate between scientific and theological advancements and that was it. If you want to get a doctorate, you actually have to actively further scientific knowledge in some way, so imagine what a career dedicated to it would achieve. I don't understand what the problem is. Perhaps my knowledge of biblical scholars is somewhat limited but I don't recall any advancements in religious thoughts that changed the way people worshipped God.

Yeah, fine, so ethics and philosophy could potentially fall under the purview of religion, but they are most certainly not inextricably linked. After all, both of them can be debated in a completely atheist context.
 

stefanbertramlee

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The_AC said:
The definition of proof is basically "reason to believe something." So when someone says "I need proof to believe in God," he's basically saying "I need a reason to believe in God, in order to believe in him."
yes are you implying thats stupid?
 

Spacelord

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You know, I was going to make this big post about the difference between the existence (or non-existance) of a God and a method of self-reliance, but you know what? I won't. Screw these presumptuous threads.
 

stefanbertramlee

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Spacelord said:
You know, I was going to make this big post about the difference between the existence (or non-existance) of a God and a method of self-reliance, but you know what? I won't. Screw these presumptuous threads.
whats wrong with the thread?
 

DazBurger

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Duskwaith said:
TheDuckbunny said:
Because there are two 'truths' in this world. Religion and Science. Science is provable, so everyone that believes in science comments about religion not being provable and thus being the lesser truth.

Wow, just came up with that on the spot.
Science isnt always proveable, science and religion are almost a ying-yang type realationship.

Like we know that everything is basicly atoms but we dont know why they are there and if someone created them or put them there.

What science dosnt know is religion. What religion dosnt know is science.
Well.. No?

The bibel CLEARLY states, that the world was created 6000 years ago. That was been proven wrong.

But its fun to watch people try to prove the opposite^^
 

EnglishMuffin

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God, jesus, santa clause, unicorns, vampires, werewolves, sasquatch, the tooth fairy: All real! I don't have any evidence to back up my belief that they are indeed real, but because I believe they are real then they are!

I'm off to hunt werewolves on my unicorn with jesus and vampire steve. Away!
 

ILPPendant

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EnglishMuffin said:
God, jesus, santa clause, unicorns, vampires, werewolves, sasquatch, the tooth fairy: All real! I don't have any evidence to back up my belief that they are indeed real, but because I believe they are real then they are!

I'm off to hunt werewolves on my unicorn with jesus and vampire steve. Away!
Oh now you're just taking the piss. Everyone knows Vampire Steve died last week.

Cheeze_Pavilion said:
I was saying the converse: that religion falls under the purview of ethics and philosophy. Theological advancements are not always about worshipping God--they are also often about ethics and other philosophical issues.
I see now. Well, I'm not entirely sure where the disagreement lies since you haven't really contradicted me with that. Carry on, I guess.
 

MrBlackers

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Gimmi. A. Burger said:
Duskwaith said:
TheDuckbunny said:
Because there are two 'truths' in this world. Religion and Science. Science is provable, so everyone that believes in science comments about religion not being provable and thus being the lesser truth.

Wow, just came up with that on the spot.
Science isnt always proveable, science and religion are almost a ying-yang type realationship.

Like we know that everything is basicly atoms but we dont know why they are there and if someone created them or put them there.

What science dosnt know is religion. What religion dosnt know is science.
Well.. No?

The bibel CLEARLY states, that the world was created 6000 years ago. That was been proven wrong.

But its fun to watch people try to prove the opposite^^
You, sir, really need to familiarize yourself with the school of thought that the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally.
 

orangebandguy

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How will anyone know if they're right? and besides Mankind has always had a fear and curiosity of that which they don't undersand and find rational explanations to fit them all because we don't like the idea of a random universe.
 

Glerken

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Because your telling me

  • 1. How everything started
    2. How to live my life
    3. If I go against what you say I'll be tortured for eternity in Hell.
You need proof to back that up...
 

Duskwaith

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MrBlackers said:
Gimmi. A. Burger said:
Duskwaith said:
TheDuckbunny said:
Because there are two 'truths' in this world. Religion and Science. Science is provable, so everyone that believes in science comments about religion not being provable and thus being the lesser truth.

Wow, just came up with that on the spot.
Science isnt always proveable, science and religion are almost a ying-yang type realationship.

Like we know that everything is basicly atoms but we dont know why they are there and if someone created them or put them there.

What science dosnt know is religion. What religion dosnt know is science.
Well.. No?

The bibel CLEARLY states, that the world was created 6000 years ago. That was been proven wrong.

But its fun to watch people try to prove the opposite^^
You, sir, really need to familiarize yourself with the school of thought that the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally.
Er a few centurys ago that was common knowledge as not every one was so enlightened as we ourr now. The average lay man didnt have accsess to the internet not even books.

But its fun to watch die hard atheists try to bullshit about a book they more than likely havent read or studied.
 

elvor0

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Because it is Illogical to believe in something based on blind faith, if I'm told that there's this magical man up there keeping things in order and is responsible for us as a species, and he can do all this cool stuff, I want proof. There is no "complete" proof that the big bang exists and while believing in it is a slight type of "faith" there is far more evidence to suggest that that is the logical cause of existence than a magic man in the sky.

Flieshman said he could do cold fusion in a tub of cold water and a buson burner, ok lets believe him based on FAITH. Oh wait that would be stupid, lets get proof, wait, whats this there isnt any that he can do it? Oh well, lets just believe him anyway, through FAITH.
 

tenlong

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AndyFromMonday said:
tenlong said:
AndyFromMonday said:
tenlong said:
AndyFromMonday said:
tenlong said:
SsilverR said:
tenlong said:
I believe in god. The day i believe in evolution is the day i see a building gather all the materials needed to build itself and then builds itself. That is next to impossible.That is like 900 quadrillion to 1.
bio organisms can develope and evolve on their own, they're alive .. concrete isn't .. i'm sorry man but that is by far one of the worst arguments i've heard
So you are saying a building can build itself? Get me a plane ticket i like to see it. On a side note how do explain paranormal events like ghost and demons etc. My family and i seen paranormal events that science can't explain. {No we don't do drugs or are insane.]
Evolution does not deal with the origins of life, evolution deals with the way life adapted to it's enviroment. From the most simplest of cells to the most complex organisms.

How do I explain paranormal events? That can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence aka provide evidence that those paranormal events happened and then I will believe you. But out of curiosity, what were those events that you exprienced? Now again out of curiosity, did that happen at night by any chance?
Parnomal things had happened at different times of day and night. A lot this happen during my highschool years. My family lived in a haughted house. My grandma saw a kitchen raised off the stove by itself. Most of my family saw a ghost of a 11 to 13 year old girl. At first my grandma saw it and thought my little brothers {13 and 14 at the time] snuck a girl in the house.[they honestly didn't.] We ripped the house apart looking for the girl but found nothing.plus the outside doors were still locked.{only the adults had a key to the house.] My family all but me saw ghosts in that house. To this day i never saw a ghost in person. I saw signs of a ghost.

I came back from 12 hour shift at work,got some food from sonic's. I turned on the tv while i eat like i always do. Then the cable started to mess up.{You remember on old tvs where you didnt have the cable plug in it turn to static. It was like someone was pulling the cable out. My cable wire was hard to unplug. You manully had to turn the turn the wire a special way then pull it out. I lost it and started to cuss." You motherfucking ghost ***** better leave my cable alone before i beat your ghost ass!"

The cable starts going crazy. static/no static for like a minute. I cussed again "Ghost ***** why don't go up in the attic? No one is up there." A few secs later i hear heavy stomping up in the attic.{everyone else was asleep at time.] I then said "You better stop before i beat your ghost ass!" The stomping stops. I am a see to believe it kind of guy when it comes to ghosts. Lastly we didn't handy at the time. what are suppose to put cammeras all over our house to prove. Plus we were a proud family and was not going to be chased out of our house. If a ghost came to us threatening us, we would be like."Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my house!" We was not scared in the least.
"Parnomal things had happened at different times of day and night. A lot this happen during my highschool years. My family lived in a haughted house. My grandma saw a kitchen raised off the stove by itself. Most of my family saw a ghost of a 11 to 13 year old girl. At first my grandma saw it and thought my little brothers {13 and 14 at the time] snuck a girl in the house.[they honestly didn't.] We ripped the house apart looking for the girl but found nothing.plus the outside doors were still locked.{only the adults had a key to the house.] My family all but me saw ghosts in that house. To this day i never saw a ghost in person. I saw signs of a ghost."

"Peduncular means pertaining to the peduncle, which is a neural tract running to and from the pons on the brain stem. These hallucinations usually occur in the evenings, but not during drowsiness, as in the case of hypnagogic hallucination. The subject is usually fully conscious and can interact with the hallucinatory characters for extended periods of time. As in the case of hypnagogic hallucinations, insight into the nature of the images remains intact. The false images can occur in any part of the visual field, and are rarely polymodal."

"I came back from 12 hour shift at work,got some food from sonic's. I turned on the tv while i eat like i always do. Then the cable started to mess up.{You remember on old tvs where you didnt have the cable plug in it turn to static. It was like someone was pulling the cable out. My cable wire was hard to unplug. You manully had to turn the turn the wire a special way then pull it out. I lost it and started to cuss." You motherfucking ghost ***** better leave my cable alone before i beat your ghost ass!"

You ever thinked for a second that there might have been a problem with the cable itself and not a ghost?

"The cable starts going crazy. static/no static for like a minute. I cussed again "Ghost ***** why don't go up in the attic? No one is up there." A few secs later i hear heavy stomping up in the attic.{everyone else was asleep at time.] I then said "You better stop before i beat your ghost ass!" The stomping stops. I am a see to believe it kind of guy when it comes to ghosts. Lastly we didn't handy at the time. what are suppose to put cammeras all over our house to prove. Plus we were a proud family and was not going to be chased out of our house. If a ghost came to us threatening us, we would be like."Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my house!" We was not scared in the least"

Again, there might have been a problem with the cable and the attic disturbances might have been rats.

Shit that happened to me:
The closet's door above the kitchen ,where we keep forks and such, is not exactly "good". It always opens. Sometimes when it oppens forks fall out of it. Does that mean a ghost did it? I sure did taught so until I saw it happen right before my eyes. Changed the door and never had a problem since.

I woke up one night suddently seeing 2 pairs of red eyes staring at me. Was that a ghost? No. Was that a night terror? Yes.

When I was at school me and my friends would usually hear noises coming from the bathroom. It turned out to be a broken pipe.

When I used to go to my grandparents I used to hear noises in the attic. I taught it was a ghost too and started screaming one day at it to stop and it actually did stop. My grandfather came in the room and asked me what the fuck was I doing. I told him I was trying to scare the ghost away. 1 hour later me and him were comming down from the attic having just killed 3 rats.

I used to hear fainth voices and taught it was a ghost. When I went to the doctor about a bad cut I had at my hand and I told him about what me hearing shit. It turned out that it was a mild form of hallucination known as a disturbance.

Has a kid I used to see images form in the dark right before I fell asleep. Told the doctor about those too and apparently they are very common and are called hypnagogic hallucination.

All of these stopped by the time I was aged 17.
how do you explain that a a kitchen pan raised clean off a stove by itself. Plus how do explain that 100 plus people see the same thing but have never spoke to each other privously.
Either an illusion or a hallucination.

100 people see the same thing but have never spoken to each other?...what? See what?

Like a demon, ghost etc. On side note i worked in so called ghost infested buildings and didn't see anything. I believe if go in a place expecting ghosts etc you will think any thing is ghost related. I believe in ghosts etc but i am a big believer in the simple solution is usually right.
 

shootthebandit

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everything has to be proven, i would rather live with the truth than a controling lie

if you are offended by anti-religious remarks DO NOT read the lines below(seriously):

in my personal opinion god, jesus and every other religion is nonsense. religion is merely indoctrination and a means of public control. the reason everything in the bible is vague is because it can be used in any situation, scenario, region and time period.

further proof that religion is indoctrination is a catholic holy communion (sp?) kids at a very young age are told to drink the blood of there lord and eat his body (symbolically)i would consider this to be a ritual praticed by a cult.

relgion also alters the truth, when galellio discovered that the earth revolved around the sun, the church attempted to kill him.

religion is like the matrix or the patriots from MGS, its a blissful reality that hides the truth.

in other words religion is control.

those who seek the truth will know that god is a lie. but for those who want blissful ignorance then they will continue to believe.

what truths they are hiding is what interests me