I am curious...why should God "have to be provable"?

[Spacelord]

whats wrong with the thread?

Maybe I misread it - OP's syntax is atrocious - but I believe he equates the existence or non-existance of a god to self reliance. With such bias, no argument is good enough, so why start a thread about it?

 

[Shycte]

What is up with all the hate? I mean like come on, someone must have missunderstood somethings?

First of all, just because I believe in God it is not the same as I 'commit' my life to him. I accept him/her as a higher power and I believe in a life after death. I do not however think that atheism and other religons will give you a one way ticket to hell. If you live your life as a good person and is kind to all, you will live forever no matter of your personal belifs.

Also, I do not think that the earth was created 6000 years ago and that shit. Neither do I throw rocks at gay people and other things the bible would tell me. I don't know what you guys seem to believe but all Christians aren't the same, just like all the other ones arent the same.

I believe in a good because I want to and I need to. [You] don't for your own reasons.

But I haven't hurted you. Neither did my god or my friend. No one is trying to force you into anything. If you don't like it just turn away. Why all this anger?

 

[MrBlackers]

everything has to be proven, i would rather live with the truth than a controling lie

if you are offended by anti-religious remarks DO NOT read the lines below(seriously):

in my personal opinion god, jesus and every other religion is nonsense. religion is merely indoctrination and a means of public control. the reason everything in the bible is vague is because it can be used in any situation, scenario, region and time period.

further proof that religion is indoctrination is a catholic holy communion (sp?) kids at a very young age are told to drink the blood of there lord and eat his body (symbolically)i would consider this to be a ritual praticed by a cult.

relgion also alters the truth, when galellio discovered that the earth revolved around the sun, the church attempted to kill him.

religion is like the matrix or the patriots from MGS, its a blissful reality that hides the truth.

in other words religion is control.

those who seek the truth will know that god is a lie. but for those who want blissful ignorance then they will continue to believe.

what truths they are hiding is what interests me

I'm not offended, but I find it sad that you are so hating. Btw please don't rip on the symbolism if you don't understand it.

 

[shootthebandit]

everything has to be proven, i would rather live with the truth than a controling lie

if you are offended by anti-religious remarks DO NOT read the lines below(seriously):

in my personal opinion god, jesus and every other religion is nonsense. religion is merely indoctrination and a means of public control. the reason everything in the bible is vague is because it can be used in any situation, scenario, region and time period.

further proof that religion is indoctrination is a catholic holy communion (sp?) kids at a very young age are told to drink the blood of there lord and eat his body (symbolically)i would consider this to be a ritual praticed by a cult.

relgion also alters the truth, when galellio discovered that the earth revolved around the sun, the church attempted to kill him.

religion is like the matrix or the patriots from MGS, its a blissful reality that hides the truth.

in other words religion is control.

those who seek the truth will know that god is a lie. but for those who want blissful ignorance then they will continue to believe.

what truths they are hiding is what interests me

I'm not offended, but I find it sad that you are so hating. Btw please don't rip on the symbolism if you don't understand it.

im not hating, its how i interpret it.

its my opinion, i dont hate a particular religion. i just think all religion is nonsense

people always misunderstand what i say (most likly because im not good at wording things) but i only used a select few examples.

this is many reasons to believe that religion withholds the truth, take for example 'the divince code'. i know that book is full of lies but think about how much they went out of there way to keep the truth a secret

im just a person who seeks the truth and i dont believe in religion but if you want to believe then feel free. i have nothing against peoples beliefs but with the religions themselves if you understand me.

 

[Shepard's Shadow]

B/c science demands it. Anything in science has to be proven to be true. Some people want to apply that rule to everything.

 

[MrBlackers]

everything has to be proven, i would rather live with the truth than a controling lie

if you are offended by anti-religious remarks DO NOT read the lines below(seriously):

in my personal opinion god, jesus and every other religion is nonsense. religion is merely indoctrination and a means of public control. the reason everything in the bible is vague is because it can be used in any situation, scenario, region and time period.

further proof that religion is indoctrination is a catholic holy communion (sp?) kids at a very young age are told to drink the blood of there lord and eat his body (symbolically)i would consider this to be a ritual praticed by a cult.

relgion also alters the truth, when galellio discovered that the earth revolved around the sun, the church attempted to kill him.

religion is like the matrix or the patriots from MGS, its a blissful reality that hides the truth.

in other words religion is control.

those who seek the truth will know that god is a lie. but for those who want blissful ignorance then they will continue to believe.

what truths they are hiding is what interests me

I understand to some extent. But if I may, religion isn't trying to keep anything from the public, granted certain institutions have done this, but overall for me (I am a believer, but I try and relate as best I can to non-believers, understanding they think differently) religion is good because it gives people hope and love, whether you think that's real or not doesn't matter as long as those people are happy.

I'm not offended, but I find it sad that you are so hating. Btw please don't rip on the symbolism if you don't understand it.

im not hating, its how i interpret it.

its my opinion, i dont hate a particular religion. i just think all religion is nonsense

people always misunderstand what i say (most likly because im not good at wording things) but i only used a select few examples.

this is many reasons to believe that religion withholds the truth, take for example 'the divince code'. i know that book is full of lies but think about how much they went out of there way to keep the truth a secret

im just a person who seeks the truth and i dont believe in religion but if you want to believe then feel free. i have nothing against peoples beliefs but with the religions themselves if you understand me.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Blind faith is fine, but when you consider all the preparations, resources, and time wasted on religion I would like to see if it is really worth it.

 

[MrBlackers]

Woops, my point is that religions inspires happiness so it can't really hurt, granted certain things go wrong in certain religious institutions, but generally the beliefs whether wrong or right bring happiness at virtually no one's expense.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Woops, my point is that religions inspires happiness so it can't really hurt, granted certain things go wrong in certain religious institutions, but generally the beliefs whether wrong or right bring happiness at virtually no one's expense.

The crusades and Spanish inquisition.. Just off the top of my head.

 

[Lynx]

Just like comadorcrack said, it's a faith, not a fact. I think a lot of people need to put some serious thought to the difference between *to know* and *to believe*. A believer does not need proof since his/her goal is not to know.

 

[MrBlackers]

Woops, my point is that religions inspires happiness so it can't really hurt, granted certain things go wrong in certain religious institutions, but generally the beliefs whether wrong or right bring happiness at virtually no one's expense.

The crusades and Spanish inquisition.. Just off the top of my head.

Well, this is just my opinion but billions of people's hopes (past, present, and future) > several million lives (though horrible not on scale).

EDIT: Oh and people have caused a ton of damage hating on religion too, A.K.A Nazi Germany, Early 19th Century Mexico, The U.S.S.R, etc. In modern times anti-religious movements have been as dangerous if not more dangerous than religious movements (ancient times are a different story, but we don't live in them, fun to study but I'm not gonna hate billions because they're ancestors did some bad stuff).

 

[MetalPhoenix]

Don't know if this is posted (didn't want to read through 6 pages of forum )

But the whole "Faith" of "Belief" indicates that even the religious folk aren't completely sure.
Let me explain:
When a christian (or muslim, jew, hindu etc.) comes up to you and asks you: "Do you believe in God?" than that indicates that they believe, but they cannot prove it. So someone with blind faith can tell you with no doubt in his mind: "God exists". But in any other argument he'll say "I believe in god". If things aren't proven, you believe in it, or not.
In the same way, you don't ask someone: "Do you believe that grass is green?". It is widely accepted, through all countries, cultures and ages that grass is green. It is obvious and doens't need proving, because the proof is right there under your feet.

I believe (no pun intended) that any god-theory SHOULD be proven, because it is such a big influence in this world, that it can become dangerous. Besides all the religious wars that have been fought (and most likely WILL be fought) it is dangerous on a personal level. For example:
A couple of days ago I read an article that 2 parents were sentenced to prison, for letting their daugther die as a result of diabetes. They that that their daughers' illness was a test of god, to prove their faith.
These people willingly and knowingly let their own, eleven (11 !!) year-old daughter DIE, because they believed that god was testing them.

And I know, I know...This is an extreme example, but it shows that blind faith is dangerous. There are more cases like this. There are a lot of people out there who are willing to put their lives and the lives of others in danger, just because they think their gods wants it that way.

So I think a god must be proven. And even if it is, is it worth it to sacrifice a life for?

 

[stefanbertramlee]

Woops, my point is that religions inspires happiness so it can't really hurt, granted certain things go wrong in certain religious institutions, but generally the beliefs whether wrong or right bring happiness at virtually no one's expense.

The crusades and Spanish inquisition.. Just off the top of my head.

Well, this is just my opinion but billions of people's hopes (past, present, and future) > several million lives (though horrible not on scale).

EDIT: Oh and people have caused a ton of damage hating on religion too, A.K.A Nazi Germany, Early 19th Century Mexico, The U.S.S.R, etc. In modern times anti-religious movements have been as dangerous if not more dangerous than religious movements (ancient times are a different story, but we don't live in them, fun to study but I'm not gonna hate billions because they're ancestors did some bad stuff).

the religon that was responsible for the cursades and the spainsih inquestion were quite fine in nazi germany

 

[MrBlackers]

Woops, my point is that religions inspires happiness so it can't really hurt, granted certain things go wrong in certain religious institutions, but generally the beliefs whether wrong or right bring happiness at virtually no one's expense.

The crusades and Spanish inquisition.. Just off the top of my head.

Well, this is just my opinion but billions of people's hopes (past, present, and future) > several million lives (though horrible not on scale).

EDIT: Oh and people have caused a ton of damage hating on religion too, A.K.A Nazi Germany, Early 19th Century Mexico, The U.S.S.R, etc. In modern times anti-religious movements have been as dangerous if not more dangerous than religious movements (ancient times are a different story, but we don't live in them, fun to study but I'm not gonna hate billions because they're ancestors did some bad stuff).

the religon that was responsible for the cursades and the spainsih inquestion were quite fine in nazi germany

Being a catholic, I know you are wrong. Many priests were put in those concentration camps. There's a very touching story about a priest in a concentration camp who gives his life for a Jewish man with a family. That priest was Saint Maximillian Kolbe. Granted many more Jews died but many Christians, Gypsies, Gays, etc. suffered as well.

 

[MetalPhoenix]

One more thing:

Religion is only based on 2 things:

1: Location
2: Time

If someone was born in ancient Greece, he/she would believe that Zeus was the main-god
If someone was born in ancient Norway, he/she would pray to Odin and Thor
If someone was born in current day Iran, he/she would most likely be brought up with the believe in Allah and Mohammed.
If someone was born in India, he/she'd be pretty busy worshipping cows, because they believe a god lives in those creatures...

It's just a matter of when and where you were born, and what you are told to believe.

May sound a bit cruel, but someone should do an experiment

Pick a child who is just a couple of days old, so it has absolutly no idea what a god is or what the religious rules are.
Raise this child. Teach it the sciences math, biology, chemistry. Teach it languages, French, English, Spanish. Teach it to approach problems and situations with logic and (very important) an open mind. Teach it to approach everything rationally.
Then, at the age of 25, when the child has become an adult, and is able to make decisions and draw conclusions, tell him/her that there is an invisible man, that lives in the sky. Who watches, controls and polices every thing you say, do and think. And that this invisible man has sent his own son (who is actually the invisible man himself) down to earth. This son died for our sins, but later returned...alive and well.

What do you think the child would say?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I believe in god. The day i believe in evolution is the day i see a building gather all the materials needed to build itself and then builds itself. That is next to impossible.That is like 900 quadrillion to 1.

bio organisms can develope and evolve on their own, they're alive .. concrete isn't .. i'm sorry man but that is by far one of the worst arguments i've heard

So you are saying a building can build itself? Get me a plane ticket i like to see it. On a side note how do explain paranormal events like ghost and demons etc. My family and i seen paranormal events that science can't explain. {No we don't do drugs or are insane.]

Evolution does not deal with the origins of life, evolution deals with the way life adapted to it's enviroment. From the most simplest of cells to the most complex organisms.

How do I explain paranormal events? That can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence aka provide evidence that those paranormal events happened and then I will believe you. But out of curiosity, what were those events that you exprienced? Now again out of curiosity, did that happen at night by any chance?

Parnomal things had happened at different times of day and night. A lot this happen during my highschool years. My family lived in a haughted house. My grandma saw a kitchen raised off the stove by itself. Most of my family saw a ghost of a 11 to 13 year old girl. At first my grandma saw it and thought my little brothers {13 and 14 at the time] snuck a girl in the house.[they honestly didn't.] We ripped the house apart looking for the girl but found nothing.plus the outside doors were still locked.{only the adults had a key to the house.] My family all but me saw ghosts in that house. To this day i never saw a ghost in person. I saw signs of a ghost.

I came back from 12 hour shift at work,got some food from sonic's. I turned on the tv while i eat like i always do. Then the cable started to mess up.{You remember on old tvs where you didnt have the cable plug in it turn to static. It was like someone was pulling the cable out. My cable wire was hard to unplug. You manully had to turn the turn the wire a special way then pull it out. I lost it and started to cuss." You motherfucking ghost ***** better leave my cable alone before i beat your ghost ass!"

The cable starts going crazy. static/no static for like a minute. I cussed again "Ghost ***** why don't go up in the attic? No one is up there." A few secs later i hear heavy stomping up in the attic.{everyone else was asleep at time.] I then said "You better stop before i beat your ghost ass!" The stomping stops. I am a see to believe it kind of guy when it comes to ghosts. Lastly we didn't handy at the time. what are suppose to put cammeras all over our house to prove. Plus we were a proud family and was not going to be chased out of our house. If a ghost came to us threatening us, we would be like."Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my house!" We was not scared in the least.

"Parnomal things had happened at different times of day and night. A lot this happen during my highschool years. My family lived in a haughted house. My grandma saw a kitchen raised off the stove by itself. Most of my family saw a ghost of a 11 to 13 year old girl. At first my grandma saw it and thought my little brothers {13 and 14 at the time] snuck a girl in the house.[they honestly didn't.] We ripped the house apart looking for the girl but found nothing.plus the outside doors were still locked.{only the adults had a key to the house.] My family all but me saw ghosts in that house. To this day i never saw a ghost in person. I saw signs of a ghost."

"Peduncular means pertaining to the peduncle, which is a neural tract running to and from the pons on the brain stem. These hallucinations usually occur in the evenings, but not during drowsiness, as in the case of hypnagogic hallucination. The subject is usually fully conscious and can interact with the hallucinatory characters for extended periods of time. As in the case of hypnagogic hallucinations, insight into the nature of the images remains intact. The false images can occur in any part of the visual field, and are rarely polymodal."

"I came back from 12 hour shift at work,got some food from sonic's. I turned on the tv while i eat like i always do. Then the cable started to mess up.{You remember on old tvs where you didnt have the cable plug in it turn to static. It was like someone was pulling the cable out. My cable wire was hard to unplug. You manully had to turn the turn the wire a special way then pull it out. I lost it and started to cuss." You motherfucking ghost ***** better leave my cable alone before i beat your ghost ass!"

You ever thinked for a second that there might have been a problem with the cable itself and not a ghost?

"The cable starts going crazy. static/no static for like a minute. I cussed again "Ghost ***** why don't go up in the attic? No one is up there." A few secs later i hear heavy stomping up in the attic.{everyone else was asleep at time.] I then said "You better stop before i beat your ghost ass!" The stomping stops. I am a see to believe it kind of guy when it comes to ghosts. Lastly we didn't handy at the time. what are suppose to put cammeras all over our house to prove. Plus we were a proud family and was not going to be chased out of our house. If a ghost came to us threatening us, we would be like."Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my house!" We was not scared in the least"

Again, there might have been a problem with the cable and the attic disturbances might have been rats.

Shit that happened to me:
The closet's door above the kitchen ,where we keep forks and such, is not exactly "good". It always opens. Sometimes when it oppens forks fall out of it. Does that mean a ghost did it? I sure did taught so until I saw it happen right before my eyes. Changed the door and never had a problem since.

I woke up one night suddently seeing 2 pairs of red eyes staring at me. Was that a ghost? No. Was that a night terror? Yes.

When I was at school me and my friends would usually hear noises coming from the bathroom. It turned out to be a broken pipe.

When I used to go to my grandparents I used to hear noises in the attic. I taught it was a ghost too and started screaming one day at it to stop and it actually did stop. My grandfather came in the room and asked me what the fuck was I doing. I told him I was trying to scare the ghost away. 1 hour later me and him were comming down from the attic having just killed 3 rats.

I used to hear fainth voices and taught it was a ghost. When I went to the doctor about a bad cut I had at my hand and I told him about what me hearing shit. It turned out that it was a mild form of hallucination known as a disturbance.

Has a kid I used to see images form in the dark right before I fell asleep. Told the doctor about those too and apparently they are very common and are called hypnagogic hallucination.

All of these stopped by the time I was aged 17.

how do you explain that a a kitchen pan raised clean off a stove by itself. Plus how do explain that 100 plus people see the same thing but have never spoke to each other privously.

Either an illusion or a hallucination.

100 people see the same thing but have never spoken to each other?...what? See what?

Like a demon, ghost etc. On side note i worked in so called ghost infested buildings and didn't see anything. I believe if go in a place expecting ghosts etc you will think any thing is ghost related. I believe in ghosts etc but i am a big believer in the simple solution is usually right.

So if I go in a building expecting a ghost I will not see you. Please explain to me why would I ever bother going into a building expecting a ghost?
The simple solution seems right because it's simple. The complex solution seem false because it's complex and most of the times very hard to understand. It's a very weird "logic".

Yes, I do think that all the 100 or so people who claimed they saw ghosts and demons are lieing or witnessed an event that they weren't able to describe and so they attributed it to the supernatural. We can attribute everything to the supernatural: What was that noise? It was a ghost! Where does that smell come from? It's a demon! You see, you chose the simplest solution without even investigating. What happens when you investigate? You see that a claim without evidence is a claim that cannot be trusted.

 

[Daveman]

If you personally don't need proof of something to believe it then what stops you believing that grass is actually purple and the sea is made of lava?

Also if you don't need proof of something for it to be true then our judicial system must seem like mockery to you.

There is nothing stopping anyone from believing anything. I believe elephants can fly. They just do it when people aren't looking. It may not be true, but that is where faith comes in. I think faith is really the higher argument here.

See, there must be a reason behind your belief, even if it makes no sense. People don't just believe elephants can fly, there is always some reasoning at work.

 

[Unreliable]

Why should Russell's Teapot "be provable"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russel%27s_teapot


What about the invisible, ethereal unicorn behind you? Why should that "be provable"?

It shouldn't, and that's mr. Dawkins whole point: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME IF IT WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

There's a God? Right. And do I have to do anything? Oh believe in him? Why? Because if not I'll burn forever in eternal damnation? Right. And what did he ever do for me? Cause the death of a MINIMUM of 33 million people, only by accounts of a book over 2000 years old, so we're missing 2000 years of killings? Right. You know what, we're human, we're habitual creatures, if I'm tossed in a fire for ALL ETERNITY, you can bet your ass I'm going to adapt to it and be fine. So. Suck it God.
(For a Killcount of the Bible alone: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list.html )

I think you missed my point, I'm on your side.
The point I was making was that the burden of proof is on the person making a positive claim.

 

[tenlong]

I believe in god. The day i believe in evolution is the day i see a building gather all the materials needed to build itself and then builds itself. That is next to impossible.That is like 900 quadrillion to 1.

bio organisms can develope and evolve on their own, they're alive .. concrete isn't .. i'm sorry man but that is by far one of the worst arguments i've heard

So you are saying a building can build itself? Get me a plane ticket i like to see it. On a side note how do explain paranormal events like ghost and demons etc. My family and i seen paranormal events that science can't explain. {No we don't do drugs or are insane.]

Evolution does not deal with the origins of life, evolution deals with the way life adapted to it's enviroment. From the most simplest of cells to the most complex organisms.

How do I explain paranormal events? That can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence aka provide evidence that those paranormal events happened and then I will believe you. But out of curiosity, what were those events that you exprienced? Now again out of curiosity, did that happen at night by any chance?

Parnomal things had happened at different times of day and night. A lot this happen during my highschool years. My family lived in a haughted house. My grandma saw a kitchen raised off the stove by itself. Most of my family saw a ghost of a 11 to 13 year old girl. At first my grandma saw it and thought my little brothers {13 and 14 at the time] snuck a girl in the house.[they honestly didn't.] We ripped the house apart looking for the girl but found nothing.plus the outside doors were still locked.{only the adults had a key to the house.] My family all but me saw ghosts in that house. To this day i never saw a ghost in person. I saw signs of a ghost.

I came back from 12 hour shift at work,got some food from sonic's. I turned on the tv while i eat like i always do. Then the cable started to mess up.{You remember on old tvs where you didnt have the cable plug in it turn to static. It was like someone was pulling the cable out. My cable wire was hard to unplug. You manully had to turn the turn the wire a special way then pull it out. I lost it and started to cuss." You motherfucking ghost ***** better leave my cable alone before i beat your ghost ass!"

The cable starts going crazy. static/no static for like a minute. I cussed again "Ghost ***** why don't go up in the attic? No one is up there." A few secs later i hear heavy stomping up in the attic.{everyone else was asleep at time.] I then said "You better stop before i beat your ghost ass!" The stomping stops. I am a see to believe it kind of guy when it comes to ghosts. Lastly we didn't handy at the time. what are suppose to put cammeras all over our house to prove. Plus we were a proud family and was not going to be chased out of our house. If a ghost came to us threatening us, we would be like."Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my house!" We was not scared in the least.

"Parnomal things had happened at different times of day and night. A lot this happen during my highschool years. My family lived in a haughted house. My grandma saw a kitchen raised off the stove by itself. Most of my family saw a ghost of a 11 to 13 year old girl. At first my grandma saw it and thought my little brothers {13 and 14 at the time] snuck a girl in the house.[they honestly didn't.] We ripped the house apart looking for the girl but found nothing.plus the outside doors were still locked.{only the adults had a key to the house.] My family all but me saw ghosts in that house. To this day i never saw a ghost in person. I saw signs of a ghost."

"Peduncular means pertaining to the peduncle, which is a neural tract running to and from the pons on the brain stem. These hallucinations usually occur in the evenings, but not during drowsiness, as in the case of hypnagogic hallucination. The subject is usually fully conscious and can interact with the hallucinatory characters for extended periods of time. As in the case of hypnagogic hallucinations, insight into the nature of the images remains intact. The false images can occur in any part of the visual field, and are rarely polymodal."

"I came back from 12 hour shift at work,got some food from sonic's. I turned on the tv while i eat like i always do. Then the cable started to mess up.{You remember on old tvs where you didnt have the cable plug in it turn to static. It was like someone was pulling the cable out. My cable wire was hard to unplug. You manully had to turn the turn the wire a special way then pull it out. I lost it and started to cuss." You motherfucking ghost ***** better leave my cable alone before i beat your ghost ass!"

You ever thinked for a second that there might have been a problem with the cable itself and not a ghost?

"The cable starts going crazy. static/no static for like a minute. I cussed again "Ghost ***** why don't go up in the attic? No one is up there." A few secs later i hear heavy stomping up in the attic.{everyone else was asleep at time.] I then said "You better stop before i beat your ghost ass!" The stomping stops. I am a see to believe it kind of guy when it comes to ghosts. Lastly we didn't handy at the time. what are suppose to put cammeras all over our house to prove. Plus we were a proud family and was not going to be chased out of our house. If a ghost came to us threatening us, we would be like."Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my house!" We was not scared in the least"

Again, there might have been a problem with the cable and the attic disturbances might have been rats.

Shit that happened to me:
The closet's door above the kitchen ,where we keep forks and such, is not exactly "good". It always opens. Sometimes when it oppens forks fall out of it. Does that mean a ghost did it? I sure did taught so until I saw it happen right before my eyes. Changed the door and never had a problem since.

I woke up one night suddently seeing 2 pairs of red eyes staring at me. Was that a ghost? No. Was that a night terror? Yes.

When I was at school me and my friends would usually hear noises coming from the bathroom. It turned out to be a broken pipe.

When I used to go to my grandparents I used to hear noises in the attic. I taught it was a ghost too and started screaming one day at it to stop and it actually did stop. My grandfather came in the room and asked me what the fuck was I doing. I told him I was trying to scare the ghost away. 1 hour later me and him were comming down from the attic having just killed 3 rats.

I used to hear fainth voices and taught it was a ghost. When I went to the doctor about a bad cut I had at my hand and I told him about what me hearing shit. It turned out that it was a mild form of hallucination known as a disturbance.

Has a kid I used to see images form in the dark right before I fell asleep. Told the doctor about those too and apparently they are very common and are called hypnagogic hallucination.

All of these stopped by the time I was aged 17.

how do you explain that a a kitchen pan raised clean off a stove by itself. Plus how do explain that 100 plus people see the same thing but have never spoke to each other privously.

Either an illusion or a hallucination.

100 people see the same thing but have never spoken to each other?...what? See what?

Like a demon, ghost etc. On side note i worked in so called ghost infested buildings and didn't see anything. I believe if go in a place expecting ghosts etc you will think any thing is ghost related. I believe in ghosts etc but i am a big believer in the simple solution is usually right.

So if I go in a building expecting a ghost I will not see you. Please explain to me why would I ever bother going into a building expecting a ghost?
The simple solution seems right because it's simple. The complex solution seem false because it's complex and most of the times very hard to understand. It's a very weird "logic".

Yes, I do think that all the 100 or so people who claimed they saw ghosts and demons are lieing or witnessed an event that they weren't able to describe and so they attributed it to the supernatural. We can attribute everything to the supernatural: What was that noise? It was a ghost! Where does that smell come from? It's a demon! You see, you chose the simplest solution without even investigating. What happens when you investigate? You see that a claim without evidence is a claim that cannot be trusted.

The reason someone goes to a place expecting is most likely to ghost stores or wanting to be scared.{There is nothing wrong with a good spook hunt every now and then.] When i said i believe in the simple solution is usually right i meant for example you hear a strange noise it is probaly a bad pipe or something on that line. When i was kid i lived next to the furance room for years so i pay strange noises no mind. My bed would have to lift itself off the floor with me in it before i would think there is proof of a ghost.