I have decided to be completely honest, escapists, so I wrote this. I hope someone will read it.

[umpufnufguf]

i'm not sure what to say, but i can relate a lot to how you feel. i only really wanted to say i read the entire thing...

 

[DonMartin]

i'm not sure what to say, but i can relate a lot to how you feel. i only really wanted to say i read the entire thing...

Just hearing that is enough. Thanks a lot, man.

 

[Torrasque]

Reading through your post, I reached your part where you said you second guess yourself.
I have that problem too, I doubt myself a great deal of the time, especially with girls.
This doesn't prevent me from asserting my positions in arguments though. Only when there is a small amount of doubt in my mind, my brain will overthink the hell out of it and make a mountain out of a molehill. I have actively been telling myself "you're just thinking way too much about it, don't worry so much" and it helps to a small degree.

Lol, as I keep reading, I remember the saying I created a while ago, "a modest man cannot say he is modest".
Its really hard to be profound and tell someone that they are doing something wrong, when you are doing it as well.
I get what you are trying to say, and I agree. With what, I cannot say because its hard to nail down, and even harder to find the specific parts that I agree with. I just agree

Hmm, I am pretty damn sure I have OCD too, but I don't really care if I am diagnosed or not. Seems pretentious to think I have OCD without being diagnosed with it, but meh. I notice alot of OCD tendencies in my life, and it would make sense if I do have OCD, but my life won't change if I were diagnosed with/without, so whatever.

What you know and what you feel boils down into what is fact and what is belief. Fact is something that can be proven, and has been proven. Living a life of facts is cold and harsh, but at least you would have no doubts. Belief is something that can either be proven eventually, or cannot ever be proven (I swear, I better not be quoted on that in a religious argument...). Living a life of beliefs is much more colourful and entertaining, but you risk doubting everything you believe in. Therefore, a healthy balance of both is needed for a healthy life.
I KNOW that I live in one of the best countries in the world (Canada) and that most other countries are jealous of what I have in Canada.
I KNOW there is intelligent life out in the universe.
I FEEL that I will eventually find a girl that is perfect for me in every way, but I still hate it when people justify my not-having-one-right-now, with that garbage "you'll find someone eventually".
I FEEL that most people that argue a position that is wrong, will eventually realize they are wrong, but everytime I argue with someone religious, I am proven wrong...

Really nice post. Its nice to read a TL;DR once in a while that is actually interesting and insightful.
I am glad you have an outlet like this, it is important to have some kind of outlet for frustration, anger, sadness, all feelings, because bottling them up just causes you to damage yourself needlessly. I spent most of my highschool playing doctor and helping friends vent. Waste of time? Well, some people were a waste of time. Others would have serious problems if I didn't help.
It also seems that you doubt yourself WAYYYY too much. Almost every second sentence was you apologizing for being a pretentious dick. Don't worry about it dude! Its the internets, so you can be anything you want. Yes, I realize you were being entirely honest, and were just saying what was on your mind at the time (my blogs are like that; they are literally exactly what is going on in my head) but you don't have to be so hard on yourself =|

 

[DonMartin]

Reading through your post, I reached your part where you said you second guess yourself.
I have that problem too, I doubt myself a great deal of the time, especially with girls.
This doesn't prevent me from asserting my positions in arguments though. Only when there is a small amount of doubt in my mind, my brain will overthink the hell out of it and make a mountain out of a molehill. I have actively been telling myself "you're just thinking way too much about it, don't worry so much" and it helps to a small degree.

Lol, as I keep reading, I remember the saying I created a while ago, "a modest man cannot say he is modest".
Its really hard to be profound and tell someone that they are doing something wrong, when you are doing it as well.
I get what you are trying to say, and I agree. With what, I cannot say because its hard to nail down, and even harder to find the specific parts that I agree with. I just agree

Hmm, I am pretty damn sure I have OCD too, but I don't really care if I am diagnosed or not. Seems pretentious to think I have OCD without being diagnosed with it, but meh. I notice alot of OCD tendencies in my life, and it would make sense if I do have OCD, but my life won't change if I were diagnosed with/without, so whatever.

What you know and what you feel boils down into what is fact and what is belief. Fact is something that can be proven, and has been proven. Living a life of facts is cold and harsh, but at least you would have no doubts. Belief is something that can either be proven eventually, or cannot ever be proven (I swear, I better not be quoted on that in a religious argument...). Living a life of beliefs is much more colourful and entertaining, but you risk doubting everything you believe in. Therefore, a healthy balance of both is needed for a healthy life.
I KNOW that I live in one of the best countries in the world (Canada) and that most other countries are jealous of what I have in Canada.
I KNOW there is intelligent life out in the universe.
I FEEL that I will eventually find a girl that is perfect for me in every way, but I still hate it when people justify my not-having-one-right-now, with that garbage "you'll find someone eventually".
I FEEL that most people that argue a position that is wrong, will eventually realize they are wrong, but everytime I argue with someone religious, I am proven wrong...

Really nice post. Its nice to read a TL;DR once in a while that is actually interesting and insightful.
I am glad you have an outlet like this, it is important to have some kind of outlet for frustration, anger, sadness, all feelings, because bottling them up just causes you to damage yourself needlessly. I spent most of my highschool playing doctor and helping friends vent. Waste of time? Well, some people were a waste of time. Others would have serious problems if I didn't help.
It also seems that you doubt yourself WAYYYY too much. Almost every second sentence was you apologizing for being a pretentious dick. Don't worry about it dude! Its the internets, so you can be anything you want. Yes, I realize you were being entirely honest, and were just saying what was on your mind at the time (my blogs are like that; they are literally exactly what is going on in my head) but you don't have to be so hard on yourself =|

Thank you. I think you understood me pretty well, and for that I thank you, I suppose. Glad you enjoyed reading it, really. You made some really good points, some points that made me think about things. I cant explain it more, but it was helpful.

You seem to be a pretty intelligent individual, I might add. Or maybe I just think that because I agree with you.

Thanks again, sincerely.

 

[brumley53]

I used to feel like this alot and I still kind of do at times. I always think I'm worse then I am and all that.

Recently though I've become more optimistic (although I still love cynical jokes) and I also try not to second guess myself and so far it's working pretty well. I'm not sure why I changed. I think it could've been because I moved school and met new people and I noticed how well I fitted in and that no one really thought I was odd or weird or annoying, like I had always thought before.

 

[Nickolai77]

I think if you rationalise about it hard enough, you have no reason not to be reasonably confident about yourself. (You certainly have reason to be confident about your command of the English language, i should note).

What your dealing with here is an irrational emotion, as you say you FEEL useless, phony and despised. I would therefore recommend that you make some lifestyle changes that will make you feel good about yourself. See your friends more often, i don't know how old you are but you could take a holiday with them perhaps. If money is short find a job, make new friends there. Pick up a hobby and do well in it and you can feel pride in yourself for doing that. If your lucky enough, i also think having a good girlfriend can do a guy's confidence wonders as well.

Some of these may already apply you you, but i think you get the point i am trying to make.

Thank you, a lot. Very sound advice, and I am trying to follow them, every day. I added a little snip to the end of the OP, to clarify things, if you want to read it! You made a very good point, and I think I understood it completely.

Also, love your avatar! ...That is Dickinson, right?

Thanks, again.

Woop! Your the first person to recognise that avatar as Bruce Dickinson, cookies to you mate!
I got it from this music video:



In some ways, it seems relevant to this topic which is why i am sharing it. There is some wonderful personal wisdom in this song.

 

[CarlMin]

I didn't know Jante Law had such a strong cultural influence in Finland. Anyway, I grew up in Sweden, Stockholm but this is really a more hedonistic society.

Anyway, I've always admired people with low self-esteem. Or well, that is really the wrong definition. But I've always admired those who have this modest, careful approach, those who don't always scream for attention like the rest of us and those who ponder on their own faults rather than the vices of others. Perhaps it is because I'm the total opposite, or perhaps because I feel that our society has a surplus of loud, self-centered assholes. Who knows.

I really don't have any to add to this debate because what I'm saying has already been stated masterfully. I just wanted to sorta comment and show my support.

 

[holy_secret]

Jag visste inte att Finland också var "infekterad" av den här jävla jantelagen. Trodde det var en svensk-dansk-norsk sak. Ledsen att höra det :-/

I can relate to what you're saying. I do not suffer from bad self-esteem problems. I actually think I am pretty awesome (and an asshole for saying it). I don't feel bad when I tell it to myself, but to say it out loud feels like talking about sex positions with ones parents.

This reminds me of the other day actually. I was in an incredibly good mood. I have so many things to look forward to I can barely hold my excitement for myself. I was walking around with a friend in the city and I said "I'm sorry, but I just have to say that I am really happy right now!!! :-D"
My friend looked at me, grabbed my shoulders and said "Hey. Never apologize for being happy, okay?"

Is it really only we who have this "law"?

Kan nog vara att det är ett nordiskt problem.. Har för mig att han som ursprungligen skrev Jantelagen var dansk?

Den skrevs av en dansk-norsk lirare vid namn Aksel Sandemose.

 

[Torrasque]

Thank you. I think you understood me pretty well, and for that I thank you, I suppose. Glad you enjoyed reading it, really. You made some really good points, some points that made me think about things. I cant explain it more, but it was helpful.

You seem to be a pretty intelligent individual, I might add. Or maybe I just think that because I agree with you.

Thanks again, sincerely.

"Birds of a feather, flock together"
"One may think he is looking at a picture, but it is in fact a mirror"
"You're a pretty cool bro, bro"

Any way you say it, it doesn't change the fact that smart people identify with other smart people, and understand them best.
You're no slouch yourself, you are just mired in self doubt and have the problem of the modest man.

I always hate it when I want to agree to something someone has said, but what I am agreeing with is so hard to pinpoint that it feels like I'm agreeing with them just for the sake of agreeing with them. But since we both did that, I think it is safe to say that we are on the both page, and whatever it is we agree upon, we both know (sorta) what is going on

 

[DonMartin]

Woop! Your the first person to recognise that avatar as Bruce Dickinson, cookies to you mate!
I got it from this music video:


In some ways, it seems relevant to this topic which is why i am sharing it. There is some wonderful personal wisdom in this song.

It's a great song, great album too, in my opinion. Bruce is a personal hero of mine!

Cheers for cookies!

 

[DonMartin]

Thank you. I think you understood me pretty well, and for that I thank you, I suppose. Glad you enjoyed reading it, really. You made some really good points, some points that made me think about things. I cant explain it more, but it was helpful.

You seem to be a pretty intelligent individual, I might add. Or maybe I just think that because I agree with you.

Thanks again, sincerely.

"Birds of a feather, flock together"
"One may think he is looking at a picture, but it is in fact a mirror"
"You're a pretty cool bro, bro"

Any way you say it, it doesn't change the fact that smart people identify with other smart people, and understand them best.
You're no slouch yourself, you are just mired in self doubt and have the problem of the modest man.

I always hate it when I want to agree to something someone has said, but what I am agreeing with is so hard to pinpoint that it feels like I'm agreeing with them just for the sake of agreeing with them. But since we both did that, I think it is safe to say that we are on the both page, and whatever it is we agree upon, we both know (sorta) what is going on

I couldnt have put it better myself. I think. I agree, atleast.

...yeah, what you said!

 

[DonMartin]

Jag visste inte att Finland också var "infekterad" av den här jävla jantelagen. Trodde det var en svensk-dansk-norsk sak. Ledsen att höra det :-/

I can relate to what you're saying. I do not suffer from bad self-esteem problems. I actually think I am pretty awesome (and an asshole for saying it). I don't feel bad when I tell it to myself, but to say it out loud feels like talking about sex positions with ones parents.

This reminds me of the other day actually. I was in an incredibly good mood. I have so many things to look forward to I can barely hold my excitement for myself. I was walking around with a friend in the city and I said "I'm sorry, but I just have to say that I am really happy right now!!! :-D"
My friend looked at me, grabbed my shoulders and said "Hey. Never apologize for being happy, okay?"

Is it really only we who have this "law"?

Kan nog vara att det är ett nordiskt problem.. Har för mig att han som ursprungligen skrev Jantelagen var dansk?

Den skrevs av en dansk-norsk lirare vid namn Aksel Sandemose.

Sorgligt att den är så utspridd, jo. Lite jävligt är det.

Your friend has earned ten rewards of any kind. Awesome story.

Thanks a lot for your response, man! Cherish it.

 

[DonMartin]

I didn't know Jante Law had such a strong cultural influence in Finland. Anyway, I grew up in Sweden, Stockholm but this is really a more hedonistic society.

Anyway, I've always admired people with low self-esteem. Or well, that is really the wrong definition. But I've always admired those who have this modest, careful approach, those who don't always scream for attention like the rest of us and those who ponder on their own faults rather than the vices of others. Perhaps it is because I'm the total opposite, or perhaps because I feel that our society has a surplus of loud, self-centered assholes. Who knows.

I really don't have any to add to this debate because what I'm saying has already been stated masterfully. I just wanted to sorta comment and show my support.

And that's more than enough. Tack så mycket, det är trevligt att höra från andra skandinavier och deras erfarenheter med jantelagen.

Thanks, again.

 

[CarlMin]

I didn't know Jante Law had such a strong cultural influence in Finland. Anyway, I grew up in Sweden, Stockholm but this is really a more hedonistic society.

Anyway, I've always admired people with low self-esteem. Or well, that is really the wrong definition. But I've always admired those who have this modest, careful approach, those who don't always scream for attention like the rest of us and those who ponder on their own faults rather than the vices of others. Perhaps it is because I'm the total opposite, or perhaps because I feel that our society has a surplus of loud, self-centered assholes. Who knows.

I really don't have any to add to this debate because what I'm saying has already been stated masterfully. I just wanted to sorta comment and show my support.

And that's more than enough. Tack så mycket, det är trevligt att höra från andra skandinavier och deras erfarenheter med jantelagen.

Thanks, again.

Inga problem :3

 

[Jim_Fear]

DonMartin, I actually had to register after reading your post simply because aside from not being Finnish or having a drunken father, that post could have been written entirely by me. I don't think that there is anything I can add here that can sum up how I feel most of the time above what you have written. It's comforting to know that you're (I'm) not the only person who feels this way about themselves.

Thanks!

 

[Hiikuro]

That is an interesting post, and one of the few times I really invest time in trying to read through the first post (an issue caused by my own lack of ability to focus, mind you). I'll make my comments as I read it through.

First of all, I come from Scandinavia myself (but I do not regard myself as from any of the nations therein), and have heard the "Jante-law" being thrown around before (and at times targeted at me). Personally I believe it to be an erroneous localization of a general human issue of self-esteem. In other words, it isn't unique to Scandinavia, but Scandinavia has a word and concept for it.

I suffer from severe issues with self-esteem myself, but the origins are very clear for me as to why. I have been caught up in a very difficult epistemological issue that has torn me apart for many years: How can I ever know anything about myself? How can I be aware of what I am? What I can do?

I am terrified that I may be fabricating my beliefs about myself, and that these beliefs are different and inconsistent with reality or how others view me. As such I do not trust anything I think of myself, because I reckon I can't do so. As a result I regard what others say about me as more trustworthy than myself, but even what they say I can not trust, as I may reinterpret what they mean.

However, in addition to this, and likely more related, there is my reasoning that it is better to think negatively of myself instead of positively. For I judge positive thoughts about myself to be a path to arrogance and selfishness, which both are qualities I deeply despise. As a result, many positive thoughts I have of myself I ask to justify. But because I can't justify the positive thought I sometimes (or frequently) turn it the other way around.

Openness might be my most pronounced trait. I rarely hide away myself, and I often reveal things about myself which others would find awkward to reveal. Sure, my core is still fairly hidden away from most people, but in general I have little to no inhibitions on what I reveal to others (for example, I find it fun to voice my interest in getting a dakimakura, and love to see how irrationally people react to that). Of course context is important, but.. err, I could end up talking about this for a long time. However, my rationale for being so open is quite strange. I sometimes feel like I am being selfish if I hide away myself. I'm not sure how I should explain it better.

You echo many words that I have thought before. Thank you.

Well, it seems like I at least expressed some of what I wished to express, and I responded to some of what I wished to respond to. I've probably forgotten or misinterpreted a lot though.

 

[Estrada77]

You need to stop apologizing and assuming that everyone is going to take what you said and hate you for it. Every other sentence was sorry, I'm so dumb, sorry, I'm an idiot. Its rather sad to see somebody so afraid to just say how they feel.

Congrats on opening up tho. Just man up and take responsibility for what you say tho. If you are good at things, then don't apologize for saying you, goddamn man.

You don't have to be a martyr or a lesson or a warning. You just need to man up.

 

[Ambi]

These could be somewhat related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Australia#.22Underdog.22_identity

Also, I'm not sure girls are any more certain about the way they feel. They might just mimic perceived social norms (thinking of what they ought to do) more easily (at least, that's what I read about females with Asberger's). I thought that stereotypically, men were more decisive.

Sometimes I look back on the things I wrote when I was younger and think how depressed I sounded, but I never saw myself as one of those stereotypical whiny emo sorts and I didn't like when people thought I was depressed. I've thought about this before.

I could relate to many of the things you said in your message. I have much more to say about this later. It's too much of a complex issue, balancing cultural influences, psychological factors, relating it to personal things, and I always feel there could be something missing, I feel like my brain doesn't have the capacity to take into account every factor required for certainty. I thought everyone else just made information look neat and got things done, and I didn't know what I wanted... I don't think I'm really making sense. I feel there's a memory of a thought I'm trying to retrieve. I need clarity. On to that later, I really should go.

 

[Kargathia]

I must say I rather admire your decision to openly voice your doubts, especially as I can recognise myself in a few too many things for my own comfort. Except that I can't paint worth a damn, and picked photography instead =)

However: you might want to keep in mind why people choose to hide self-doubt. Emotionally it'll wear you down incredibly fast if you try and be continually upfront about these things. It's a good thing to recognise your own faults, but do remember that the worst enemy of being good is the dream of being perfect.

And on the topic of mental disorders: especially after officially being diagnosed with my own brand I'm getting the rather strong sensation that we're much too quick with labeling any behaviour which differs from the archetype as a mental disorder.
It seriously won't be long until the first disorder pops up caused by trauma's of not having a mental disorder. At that point you might start to wonder: aren't we simply using psychology here to give ourselves an excuse to stop conforming to an illusory "normality"?

Of course fully aware of that in all likelihood I'm talking out of my arse, but some times it's better to talk out of your arse than to say nothing at all.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well after reading your post (not all of it I will admit, but I tried to read all the parts that gave the message of your post) the first thing that comes to mind is how heart-felt it was. You obviously put alot of work and poured a good amount of yourself into the post when you typed it up.

As for the point of your whole post, cynicism and all that, I would have to say that it isn't based solely upon self-esteem problems and the like. Cynicism can all sprout from a bitterness with the world and what goes on in it. Some people see all the problems in the world and figure life's a piece of shit, when you look at it (life's a laugh and death's a joke it's true...; sorry 'bout that).

I can agree with your plea to not bury one's self in cynicism and consider one's self a heartless bastard though. My view is that while life can be shitty and random, and in the end we're all going to die and our memories fade away, that doesn't mean we have to go through life as a sour puss. We still have a chance to live a good life, and that's worth something.

Sorry if my post wasn't the best response to your's (my brain isn't working at 100% right now), but I felt that I had to respond to a post that exposed the true character of the person writing it.