I want to talk about Metal Gear Solid

[Verkula]

There's just one thing I don't get with the Liquid arm. Ocelot did all that to fool the Patriots right? In the end of course it turns out that it was nanomachines and whatnot, but noone knew that until that point.

So was the AI that stupid that it believed there's such a thing as getting possessed by someone else's arm? I mean I know there are some crazy stuff in the series, but comon... D:

 

[King Aragorn]

Considering we had a man that can tame hornets, a sniper that is 100 years old and can perform photosynthesis, isn't so off.

 

[Spikethebloody]

What

Damn that dark cave in MGS3 to hell. I think I spent 2 hours in there.
I'm excited for GZ. Mostly because it's building upon PW, which I loved. Most of PW's short comings were system limitations.

My favorite? hmm...
Either MGS3/MGSW.

And oh, Portable Ops, canon or not?

I know what you mean about the cave when i first got the game a couple of hears ago it was impossible to turn the brightness up on my TV i must of been i that cave for at least 3 hour's, without being able to see a thing, the only way i could get through the cave was looking at the map to find were the tunnels where and just walking up against the walls until i found them.

But yeah my favorite game is still MGS3

What I did was find the torch hidden somewhere, the biggest annoyance though was if you feel into the wrong place, AKA the water, it was lost forever, and all you had were your cigars, and Snake's adjusting eyes.

Spoiler

all-sow when you get to the end of the game and Eva gets stabbed buy a branch after falling of the bike.
the first time i did that i think my game Brock because i would give food to Eva walk about 5 feet,then enemy's spawn,kill them, Eva faints, give her food, enemy's re-spawn,kill them again, turn around and Eva's fainted again.
rinse and repeat about 50 times without even getting past the first area.

And seeing as i saved over my only save, i had to restart the entire game

I never did beat the game until i got the HD collection.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I'm gonna be a weirdo here and say that I really liked the codec conversations in MGS1.

I liked the codec conversations in all of them. Admittedly I haven't played 4.

 

[King Aragorn]

Here is a direction for the thread!

MGS3 >>>>>>>>>>>> MGS1

I don't understand why everyone seems to think MGS3 is the best one...

• 
  [li]You have to move really slow or your footsteps become audible (which is annoying);[/li]
  [li]Constantly rooting through SLOW-loading menus to switch your camo, eat, heal wounds, etc;[/li]
  [li]So many gimmicky game mechanics that take away more fun than they add to it (hunting/eating, wound healing, camouflage management, hiding in grass, noise/visibility levels, etc);[/li]
  [li]A predictable plot which is heavily derived from James Bond movies (this is even lampshaded in the actual game);[/li]
  [li]Really bizarre characters that break immersion, like the guy who controls bees, the really old sniper who can photosynthesise, a crazy Russian cosmonaut whose body has melted into his spacesuit, etc;[/li]
  [li]Very long periods where you're slogging through the jungle/forest and nothing much happens;[/li]
  [li]Comparatively few mysteries or surprising twists (which is in my opinion the main draw of MGS);[/li]

1. That adds to the difficulty of stealth. Where there even footsteps in MGS1?
2. I loved those. Hunting gave the survival feel, same with wound heeling. Camouflage was a cool little touch.
3. So Psycho Mantis was any different?
4. It seemed to have the same amount of twists as the others.
5. The ''slogging'' to me was actually pretty neat. It made encounters surprising, kind of built atmosphere.
6. The menus-the camouflage menu was not the best, but I didn't switch too often.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm gonna be a weirdo here and say that I really liked the codec conversations in MGS1.

I liked the codec conversations in all of them.

MGS2 not so much. And MGS3 I don't remember having too many "codec moments". With MGS1 there where just so many big reveals with Naomi and McDonald Miller.

Admittedly I haven't played 4.

Be glad about that. Seriously, fall to your knees and thank the Lord.

Also, "Hurt me MORE!!!"

 

[verdant monkai]

The bit when Snake does a back flip off of a missile.

its good

 

[King Aragorn]

Lol, The Twin Snakes is one of the best parodies like...ever.
They actually approached Kojima with a faithful version, but he demanded them to do it in their over the top style.
All in all, if you didn't play MGS1, I guess it isn't TOO bad, but if you did, I guess t could be a bit of an annoyance.

 

[King Aragorn]

Holy crap, when you think of it that way...
It makes sense!
That actually has so much potential...a version of the game of how the Patriots may have twisted it/exaggeration. It could be told through a supposed ''member'' of the incident, who is just a puppet of the Patriots.

 

[Chunga the Great]

Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was the best out of the series

*Raises Flameshield to maximum output*

 

[IronMit]

I don't understand why everyone seems to think MGS3 is the best one...

• 
  [li]You have to move really slow or your footsteps become audible (which is annoying);[/li]
  [li]Constantly rooting through SLOW-loading menus to switch your camo, eat, heal wounds, etc;[/li]
  [li]So many gimmicky game mechanics that take away more fun than they add to it (hunting/eating, wound healing, camouflage management, hiding in grass, noise/visibility levels, etc);[/li]
  [li]A predictable plot which is heavily derived from James Bond movies (this is even lampshaded in the actual game);[/li]
  [li]Really bizarre characters that break immersion, like the guy who controls bees, the really old sniper who can photosynthesise, a crazy Russian cosmonaut whose body has melted into his spacesuit, etc;[/li]
  [li]Very long periods where you're slogging through the jungle/forest and nothing much happens;[/li]
  [li]Comparatively few mysteries or surprising twists (which is in my opinion the main draw of MGS);[/li]

I see it what you are saying. I can appreciate that most points could of been done better;

footsteps were far too sensitive..MGS4 nailed that part right. But even if they heard you coming you can grab them before they shout for help. Unless you were looking for the achievement it need not be frustrating

Yh Menu's are slow. A quick hold triangle and analogue quick select (deus ex:HR) would of been better. Real-time 'Last of us' medical application maybe. I don't like how the camo jumps from 85% to 10% when walking through similar terrain. Forcing you to stop and change again. So less jumps there could of improved it.
However all those mechanics were awesome; noise, visibility, grass, environment for stealth is the point of all stealth. Hunting, eating was about survival. The game was about snake becoming the ultimate bad-ass big boss and a double-0 Rambo vision was made. It's kind of the point of all the mechanics.

It's supposed to be like a James bond movie. It's supposed to be a good thing. This is just difference in taste

Bizarre characters? This is MGS!? In other games the bizarreness is explained though...in this game the bizarreness of the bosses is a metaphor for a battlefield emotion. The what is more important then the how. Snake just conquers all these emotions to becoming the ultimate big boss badass. How these bosses control bee's etc doesn't really matter. Just like How the joker can take over a city with dynamite and gasoline. Thematically it just carries itself.

long slogging through jungle...my favourite part. And there were enough cutscenes, bosses, codecs to keep me thoroughly entertained

MGS1 had some fun twists but not having plots twists doesn't make the game any less of a game. It's better to tone it down then to try to out-do other games plot twists. However there were a lot of more subtle twists like EVA's allegiances, who the other agent is. Who The Boss is working for..her motivations. etc etc
MGS1 is brilliant too, but MGS3's gameplay mechanics and the CQC are just really fun to use and make for a really good package.
And it has the best sniper battle ever

 

[darkfox85]

Yes that is the original definition of fanservice, but it has evolved to mean: "things meant to entertain fans deliberately without regards to the plot or being necessary at all." Think the scenes in Smash Brothers Brawl that Yahtzee described as fanfiction.

Well I strongly disagree with this. Why use a term that?s already being used? That?s confusing. Let?s call it ?excessive call backs,? not fan service.

The fanbases hatred of Raiden was excessive, I object to the reason Raiden was included (MGS staff got a letter from a female gamer who said essentially that Snake was ugly and old), but he really worked well for how he was implemented.

I agree. Although I?m also not the biggest fan, I do think Raiden got it way too harsh. I actually prefer the MGS2 version from the MGS4 reinvention. MGS4 saw him being even an even whinier character and generally just a difficult and irrational person.

And yeah I heard that was the reason they introduced Raiden. I wonder how that fan reacted to playing as that ?old man? in MGS4. XD

 

[darkfox85]

I don't understand why everyone seems to think MGS3 is the best one...

• 
  [li]You have to move really slow or your footsteps become audible (which is annoying);[/li]
  [li]Constantly rooting through SLOW-loading menus to switch your camo, eat, heal wounds, etc;[/li]
  [li]So many gimmicky game mechanics that take away more fun than they add to it (hunting/eating, wound healing, camouflage management, hiding in grass, noise/visibility levels, etc);[/li]
  [li]A predictable plot which is heavily derived from James Bond movies (this is even lampshaded in the actual game);[/li]
  [li]Really bizarre characters that break immersion, like the guy who controls bees, the really old sniper who can photosynthesise, a crazy Russian cosmonaut whose body has melted into his spacesuit, etc;[/li]
  [li]Very long periods where you're slogging through the jungle/forest and nothing much happens;[/li]
  [li]Comparatively few mysteries or surprising twists (which is in my opinion the main draw of MGS);[/li]

Although I do agree that MGS3 gets way more attention that it deserves, I think this is a little harsh. The plot was fine the, characters were exotic and weird, and it was a really enjoyable game. Some of the gameplay innovations worked, but indeed, most of them were utter failures:

You pause the universe then do some first aid on yourself to grind the game to a complete halt. You go into a menu and click on things. It?s boring. Then you should change your camo every other step to keep your edge. The stamina system wasn?t very good either.

But I don?t want to be complainin?. We all complain too much. Let?s talk about the good times!

 

[darkfox85]

I think you could even get the wolves to pee on you which would give you their sent. Don't quite remember how though. I think you had to punch the puppy, then hide in your box, and the puppy would pee on it or something.

Yeah that?s amazing! The dev team really does think of everything and I remember how much this blew our minds back in the day.

You gotta punch Meryl, then quickly select the box and she?ll get a wolf-dog to piss on it. I didn?t like using that method though because you move slower in the box and it?s just a hassle to do when you?ve got the handkerchief right there.

OT: I'm gonna be a weirdo here and say that I really liked the codec conversations in MGS1. It starts off as just standard mission briefings and tutorials, but it becomes more and more part of the actual plot, revealing all sorts of conspiracies and secrets. It's pretty common now in the series, but the first time I played it I was on the edge of my seat.

Nothing weird about that at all. A very rich story developed in the background and even stole centre-stage once or twice. The first time I played I really didn?t miss a beat and didn?t stop playing until the dawn. Absolutely superb.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I think you could even get the wolves to pee on you which would give you their sent. Don't quite remember how though. I think you had to punch the puppy, then hide in your box, and the puppy would pee on it or something.

Yeah that?s amazing! The dev team really does think of everything and I remember how much this blew our minds back in the day.

You gotta punch Meryl, then quickly select the box and she?ll get a wolf-dog to piss on it. I didn?t like using that method though because you move slower in the box and it?s just a hassle to do when you?ve got the handkerchief right there.

Yeah, but you only get the handkerchief after you've been caught. Meaning you still need to travel through the wolf area twice without it when going back for the sniper rifle.

Also, having played it again recently, that fist fight with Liquid at the end is hard as balls. I don't remember having that much trouble with it back in the day.

 

[King Aragorn]

The fist fight was very easy, but very awesome. Seriously, who knew a MGS fighting game would be so BA?
The mechanics were fun, and the actual emotional weight behind it was pretty good.

 

[w9496]

You know the cave with the dogs in it? Yeah, screw that place.

It doesn?t help you have to go through that place about four times. Pain in the arse. It took until maybe my third play through to realise if you equip that handkerchief, the wolfs don?t attack you.

My favorite moment was when I landed a few hits on Psycho Mantis without swapping controllers. It wasn't a serious effort to beat him, I just wanted to see if I could.

I still remember the first time I ever fought him. It took forever then I died. I was cheesed, but Campel told me to switch controllers and it was easy. I try and do it ?legit? every time now just because it feels good when I best him!

There is also a little trick for getting through once you reach Meryl. If you punch Meryl and duck inside of your box right away, the little dog following her will pee on it, and you can pass through the cave easily as long as you use that box.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

Something that I did not see anyone else mention: The game works on so many levels, gameplay and story, but also a philosophical level. MGS4 -while I did like the game overall- tried too hard, whereas MGS just let things be. It is interesting to note that all the time that Kojima breaks the 4th wall, he does so on purpose, meaning to show the player that this is -in fact- a game. While this does break immersion somewhat, I am very glad for it, because it tends to keep the game from becoming like Call of Duty, i.e. breathlessly violent and paranoid.

I think Kojima never intended for the series to be taken as "seriously" is it was by some people, and he really just intended to make an allegory for nuclear proliferation and warfare using the character of Solid Snake and family. In this regard, I disagree with people that think the games are "paranoid" or "conspiracy theorist" because I think Kojima intended to have the audience realize his exaggeration of these problems.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Although I do agree that MGS3 gets way more attention that it deserves, I think this is a little harsh. The plot was fine the, characters were exotic and weird, and it was a really enjoyable game. Some of the gameplay innovations worked, but indeed, most of them were utter failures

MGS1 is brilliant too, but MGS3's gameplay mechanics and the CQC are just really fun to use and make for a really good package.

snip

Don't get me wrong, MGS3 was a pretty good game. I just think that if you take MGS3 and remove all the issues & flaws that marred it, you basically end up with MGS2 (except with a simpler plot and no Raiden, which I think were its major selling points for most people). There's very few improvements the sequel actually made over its predecessor, and many unnecessary elements or steps backward. In my opinion, of course.