"It's totally okay if the girls are hot!": Hypocrisy and The World

[Skeleon]

In my experience it's more the latter, especially with "Hyper-masculine" stereotypes who will actively, and at times violently, reject people they consider gay. Why else would they use the word itself with such wild abandon?

I'm not a native English speaker but I thought "gay" was used for lesbians, too?

Anyway, I agree with you on the hyper-masculine stereotype.
Some of the more insecure males feel personally threatened by the presence of a homosexual man.
Though I wonder if actual violence really ensues because of that.
Name-calling, maybe shoving, yeah, but anything that merits the word "bashing"?

I haven't really been around many of said groups, though. I only know one openly bisexual man and can't think of any homosexuals.
Maybe it's just because I never saw it first-hand.

 

[Legion]

Is it justified, at all?

In the context you put it in, no, absolutely not. Gender should not matter in whether or not somebody is ok with homosexuality.

I can, however, understand a part of the mentality:

Heterosexual guys like girls. Seeing two girls kissing is therefore, for most guys, not unattractive to see. Either because they can imagine themselves in the place of one of them (typical fantasy scenario) or because of the crude logic of "2 is better than 1".

Seeing two guys kiss on the other hand, is not attractive because they are not attracted to guys and so neither of the above scenarios work.

So I can see why a guy might prefer seeing a lesbian couple to a gay couple, but it is absolutely wrong when they use their sexual preferences to dictate what type of sexuality is acceptable.

EDIT: I used guys as an example because homophobia does tend to be more common among males.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'd just like to see these people who support homosexuality do the same for religion.
And vice versa. Especially vice versa.

And then, for bonus points, say something nice about smokers.

and homosexual youth are 6 times more likely to commit suicide.

Sorry Laby, got to take issue here.

There's no way you can prove those statistics. Sexuality cannot be determined accurately normally and especially not as a cause of death.

 

[Foolish Mortal]

I personally am cool with homosexuals of either gender. In my mind, Stephen Fry and Ian McKellen are gay; ergo gays are alright.

However, I do have a friend who is very much against male homosexuality due to a... lets say 'bad experience' with a gay man. He used to be very tolerant up until that point, and I'm afraid that one bastard has coloured his views on the whole community. It's a shame, but what can you do? Otherwise, I think I've managed to find myself a group of more enlightened friends.

 

[Caimekaze]

I'd just like to see these people who support homosexuality do the same for religion.
And vice versa. Especially vice versa.

And then, for bonus points, say something nice about smokers.

I'm bi, my girlfriend is Christian and the only qualm I have with smokers is that they can upset my asthma. They are people, so they can be equally nice or nasty.
My only major gripe is hard drugs.
I just don't understand people who are anti-religion, anti-homosexual or racist.

 

[Foolish Mortal]

I'd just like to see these people who support homosexuality do the same for religion.
And vice versa. Especially vice versa.

And then, for bonus points, say something nice about smokers.

Can do.

Religion brings comfort to peoples lives and can inspire them to be better people. Religion does say a lot of good stuff about loving one another and doing no wrong, but it's all confused by millenia-old bigotry and a few nutjobs who have missed the point entirely. If only homosexuals and the church could become reconciled, then maybe this whole nonsense could be put to rest.

Also smoking in films always looks badass. Was that a passable effort?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Was that a passable effort?

Closest I've seen for ages Have a cookie.

 

[Ushario]

Okay, I feel I need to clarify. I'm not going on about someone thinking one thing is attractive and another not, I'm going on about the people who bash that "other not", then jerk off to the "one thing". Literally. There is a vast difference.

Yes it is relevant, you introduced it into the discussion yourself. I was not talking about 'what I jerk off to' I was stating the reason that I could be both against gay marriage and at the same time, find it attractive for two attractive women to make out.

What's more annoying is the people who openly flame homosexual, or bisexuals, or males who decide to push their boundaries a little and then turn around to watch lesbians with a sick grin.

You said nothing there about actually supporting lesbians for marriage when being against gays.

 

[SmogCzar]

But then again, I'm all for same sex marriages, and I think that gays/lesbians deserve all the rights and freedoms that straight people do. I wish they weren't criticized/ostracized/flat out mocked so much in the media, but it always seems that society needs a scapegoat/minority at any given time. Since we now have a black president in power, using blacks as our society's minority/butt of intolerance is not cool. Gays/lesbians however, have filled the niche, sadly.

Are you serious? The media , save Fox News, is all left leaning and reports on Pro-Gay and other liberal ideals like gun control and abortion. People don't want to make fun of the president because he is black and even making jokes about him that aren't even related to a racial stereotype automatically brands you as a bigoted, racist jackass. The only real under-reported minority in the US is young white straight males. It two twenty something men fight one black the other white and the white guy ends up in the hospital it is assault if the black ends up hurt it is assault with a hate crime tacked on. Same thing if the guy happened to be gay. It is always a hate crime if the straight white guy isn't the one in the hospital. That is the kind of news that needs to be reported.

And to Internet Kraken: Religion may not be needed in this thread explicitly but the same behavior of lesbians cool, dudes wrong happens with people of faith and it goes unnoticed then too. They think religion is evil if it is Christianity but if it is Islam, Buddhism etc. then it is ok they are all cool, sensible people.
/rant

 

[Somthing]

I have seen it at 2 people at our school xD i think they-re kinda retarded My theory is that the folks who often are like this hates gay(guys) because of the fact that they are sure the gay(guys) wanna get with them. While on the other hand if there is a pair of lesbians they believe that they have a chance of a threesome or sumthing. and that is why i usually call them bleeding retards whenever they point out their hate for gay people.

 

[Torque669]

I have no problem with Gaymen at all aslong as they're not the overly gay ones. You know the stereotypical ones all wearing purple and drinking Cocktails with little umbrellas. Aslong as they act Sane its fine by me. And Lesbians shouldnt be treated differently just because of how they look. Its pathetic that some people would think like this. Just dont look if you dont like it

 

[Labyrinth]

and homosexual youth are 6 times more likely to commit suicide.

Sorry Laby, got to take issue here.

There's no way you can prove those statistics. Sexuality cannot be determined accurately normally and especially not as a cause of death.

That number was quoted from a pamphlet on suicide at my local ACON. I did a bit of digging to find other information to see if I could back it up. Most of this data is about all genders, I'll specify where it's not. A lot of this is also regional. It's higher in some regions than others.

The studies and information I've found suggest between 3 [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2248/is_146_37/ai_89942832/], 4 [http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/gbsuicide2.htm#5100] to 7 for men (28.1% GLB compared to 4.2% non-GLB) in a Remafedi study of 36 thousand people who'd reported suicide attempts while this [http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:_OKtA1-Kj7AJ:www.rrh.org.au/publishedarticles/article_print_222.pdf+same+sex+attracted+youth+suicide+rate&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a] study showed that same-sex attracted youth (SSAY) are 6 times more likely to attempt suicide.

 

[Xorghul]

Hey, if two men or two women wants to be miserable for several years and then get divorced and fight over the right of the kids, let them.

 

[crypt-creature]

I'd just like to see these people who support homosexuality do the same for religion.
And vice versa. Especially vice versa.

And then, for bonus points, say something nice about smokers.

Religion isn't at its heart a bad thing. It's a nice set of guidelines for people to live by and can give many a sense of hope through their toughest times. It gives them something to strive for and take their mind off the age old question 'why are we here?'.
Of course there are always going to be extremists and those that take certain points a little to far to stir things up and get their way, but what organization doesn't have people like that?

Smokers can be nice or jerks, same as everyone else. Some are very aware of and polite about where they smoke and with whom, as non-smokers who have friends that do smoke.
It's a habit, more dangerous for a person than gum chewing but they aren't bad people for preferring a smoke over a stick of gum.
It all depends on the person.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The studies and information I've found suggest between 3 [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2248/is_146_37/ai_89942832/], 4 [http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/gbsuicide2.htm#5100] to 7 for men (28.1% GLB compared to 4.2% non-GLB) in a Remafedi study of 36 thousand people who'd reported suicide attempts while this [http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:_OKtA1-Kj7AJ:www.rrh.org.au/publishedarticles/article_print_222.pdf+same+sex+attracted+youth+suicide+rate&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a] study showed that same-sex attracted youth (SSAY) are 6 times more likely to commit suicide.

Suggest, maybe. State, no.

From the brief figures you've shown, the studies are going out to prove the link before they look at the facts regarding it. Without looking at the fact that these studies are 20 years old (where the world was a much more homophobic place) and very regional. You've also got to look at the idea that the active LGB youth are more likely to experiment with drugs because of the scene.

Then you're looking at, in the case of the Australian survey, that it's based around an LGB phoneline when there isn't the heterosexual equivalent.

Now if group A actually is 6 times more likely to be caught in deaths labelled as suicide more than group B, it's very dangerous to state that the only difference between A and B is sexual preference.

For example, perhaps the correlation is from the latter to the former instead of the other way around.

Placing set examples of Group A over Group B only helps to increase the differences between the two, which may cause the aggravated suicide figures. And let's not forget that these are "reported attempts" to a helpline that specifically looks for such information.

Now I'm not saying that LGB youths don't have a problem with integration into society, but perhaps this is because of their identification with a group outside of society, rather than an integration into society, while keeping their own sexual identity. As has been said, the entertainment industry has always welcomed differing lifestyles.

 

[Labyrinth]

Suggest, maybe. State, no.

From the brief figures you've shown, the studies are going out to prove the link before they look at the facts regarding it. Without looking at the fact that these studies are 20 years old (where the world was a much more homophobic place) and very regional. You've also got to look at the idea that the active LGB youth are more likely to experiment with drugs because of the scene.

Then you're looking at, in the case of the Australian survey, that it's based around an LGB phoneline when there isn't the heterosexual equivalent.

Now if group A actually is 6 times more likely to be caught in deaths labelled as suicide more than group B, it's very dangerous to state that the only difference between A and B is sexual preference.

For example, perhaps the correlation is from the latter to the former instead of the other way around.

Placing set examples of Group A over Group B only helps to increase the differences between the two, which may cause the aggravated suicide figures. And let's not forget that these are "reported attempts" to a helpline that specifically looks for such information.

Now I'm not saying that LGB youths don't have a problem with integration into society, but perhaps this is because of their identification with a group outside of society, rather than an integration into society, while keeping their own sexual identity. As has been said, the entertainment industry has always welcomed differing lifestyles.

As many of them have said, it's very difficult to get accurate numbers in any case. I'll have a further look around to see if there's any more recent stuff and get back to you on that.

The 'entertainment industry' is very select in what it accepts. If you look at gaming, not only is the medium popularised as very heterosexual-male but there are regular discussions of "Where are the homosexual people?" Hell, just hop onto most live-chat online FPS games to hear screamed insults. Similar things can be found in what I've seen of television. There are gay characters, but they're select stereotypes.

 

[Miss_M]

My dad is exactly that kind of person, though bless him, he's not really any kind of perv. I call him out on it all the time when he cringes at men kissing on tv, and point out that he would never say that about two women, to which point he agrees. He claims it doesn't make him homophobic - I disagree.

However I think women are partly to blame for this problem though - you just have to look to the huge number of 'bar-sexual' women and teenage girls who are straight, but willing to get drunk (or not) and make out with other women - mostly to make themselves appear sexy to men by fulfilling their fantasy - though no doubt they'd run a mile if a lesbien actually asked them out on a date. These women are damaging the credibility and the value of lesbien relationships by turning it into nothing but a pretty image for their lecherous male companions to store in their spank-banks.

 

[Helnurath]

Anti-homosexuality pisses me off. What's more annoying is the people who openly flame homosexual, or bisexuals, or males who decide to push their boundaries a little and then turn around to watch lesbians with a sick grin.

It's nothing short of sheer stupidity.

The unfortunate thing is that this attitude is not just prevalent in mainstream society against gays either. More than once I've seen gay-marriage stickers and the like saying "Support Gay Marriage if both chicks are hot." How does that, in any way shape or form, genuinely support the cause? Sure one can say "Oh, it's a joke." but I bet any number of people take that attitude very seriously. They will make cat-calls and watch two women like hawks. They will campaign for lesbians because they get entertainment out of the viewing. It's in no way improved from hating homosexuality all together if you're going to divide it up into "acceptable" and "fuckin' gross and you should be beaten up."

I've confronted a number of people about their behaviour along these lines and have been laughed at for proposing that they should extend their "Oh go ahead!" attitude to non-lesbians as well. As such, I ask you Escapist. Have you seen this behaviour? Is it justified, at all?

EDIT: This is not about gay marriage rights, we've had enough of those threads. It's about cultural attitudes to the people themselves. That sticker was just an example.

Every so often I see that sort of negative behavior. It mainly exists in the ultra-conservative parts of the US, but then again these are the people that send millions of dollars to televangelists claiming to "heal" people by touch. So I really wouldn't put too much thought in too their opinions and thoughts or anything they have to say really, as chances are they are too ignorant to realize just how far behind they are from the real world.

 

[Lonko]

I'd just like to see these people who support homosexuality do the same for religion.
And vice versa. Especially vice versa.

And then, for bonus points, say something nice about smokers.

Can I sum up all that in the form of "Believe what you want and love who you want as long as you don't make an issue out of it"?
Could say I cover both bases, as I support both religion and homosexuality, despite being neither gay nor religious. I never object to religion or homosexuality, but on the other hand I will gladly and vehemently object to individual religious nutters or asshole gays (I've never met any of the latter, unless you count the lesbian with slight misandrous tendencies. I'm fixing her though, so all's good).

To be on-topic, I don't know if I can add much beyond "I agree", although I will point out that unlike a surprising number of people here, I've got no problems expressing my opinion of man-on-man as gross and girl-on-girl as hot. To say so is not to be morally opposed to man-on-man, so I wish people would stop saying "I'm not anti-gay, but I think it's gross" as if being repulsed aesthetically by something implied moral opposition. It doesn't. If it did, I would be right now protesting modern art and milk.