"It's totally okay if the girls are hot!": Hypocrisy and The World

[sms_117b]

"Support Gay Marriage if both chicks are hot."

I brought a T-shirt that says that, hahaha.

Anyway on topic, people that generally state the above, don't tend to have a strong opinion on the subject (in my experience), and like me for instance. My stand point is simple, if I can watch one....wait did I just say that?!.....anyway, I cannot say something about the other.

 

[hermes]

Oh yes amongst my male friends, they seem to have the same opinion two women going at it perfectly acceptable, two males no way. I then have to burst their bubbles by saying that porn is nothing like real life, most of those women are only gay for pay.

You know there is male on male porno, right? And women consume that the most. Most of those women find lesbian sex disgusting too. Lesbian sex is just more mainstream since porno for men is more mainstream.

Let me put it this way: I have nothing against gay couples, but since I am not gay, I don't particularly enjoy watching men having sex. Since I like women, I do like watching them naked and having sex, even if it is with another woman.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I'll agree that you shouldn't hate PEOPLE until they hurt you or others, but I do have issue with one thing a couple of people have mentioned, and that is the notion that you can't say that you think homosexual activity is "gross" until you have logically analyzed it.

I think sour cream is gross. It's a knee-jerk, emotional reaction that I didn't arrive at through any kind of rational reflection or logical extrapolation from other facts or opinions. It's essentially an argument from repugnance. It's not a valid reason for me to want to blow up a sour cream factory, or to shoot you in the face because I see you eating it, but it's a perfectly valid reason for me to not eat sour cream.

If someone thinks homosexual activity is "gross" and doesn't want to explore that issue, why does he have to? If he's not hurting any gay people and he's not in a position to discriminate against them because of his feelings or pass those feelings on to others, why does the homophobe in question have to tell you WHY he thinks it's gross?

Also, for whoever the wannabe pedant who said "homophobia" means "fear of homosexuality," this one's for you: No it doesn't. "Phobos" in Greek is hate, not fear. Put down the Internet and read a book sometime.

Actually phobia is fear, or morbid fear in greek. It being IRRATIONAL, persistent and intense is just topping on the cake.


(I got that off the internet, Awesomeness?)

 

[Ewyx]

Jesus Christ, you people will ***** about anything if it makes you feel intellectually superior. It's a Goddamn JOKE. A JOKE. They are not intending to state their position on homosexuality or gay marriage, they are MAKING A JOKE.

Pretty much this. I love how those who always want to act the most open and liberal, always take everything the wrong way.

And honestly... while I don't think the issue here is as same as in the US. The only reason why I disapprove of anything related to homosexuality, is for one single stupid reason, a lot of you guys can't just shut up about it. I don't care if you're gay. Honestly, I've met quite a few, and they're not different at all. But seriously, if I see one more gay pride parade... I don't like groups that want to be treated in the same way as everyone else, and then throw a big parade to emphasize your group, and it's odd, you can be proud to be gay. But if you're proud to be straight, you're labeled a homophobe, you can be proud of being any race, as long as you're not white, in that case, you're a rasist and a probably a nazi.

Again... I'm all for equality and fully support it. But if we want true equality, we should just shut up, the reason why we're not treating each other equal, is probably because everyone is so god damn proud of whatever he is, he has to go around shouting it out to the world. Bottom line is... most people don't really care. And if you're not making a fuss out of it, no one is probably going to bother at all. Again... US has a bit of a different situation.

Let's be honest, the fact that it actually matters what religion your president is, when it comes to voting, pretty much says it all. Means that while religion is a part of everyday life in most of the world, most of the developed countries, keep it a bit more private.

Thing is, we'll never achieve true equality, until everyone decides that matters of sexual orientation, religion etc. should be considered private. Sure you can have your opinions, even if they are misguided, but as long as they're just opinions, feel free to keep them. Freedom of speech after all. And if I want to state out I don't support gay marriage? So what?! I mean seriously, if I don't support every single decision you do in life, will that REALLY make you feel bad? Of course not everyone is going to accept your decisions and life choices. Fuck that shit, I despise people just because they think consoles are a better gaming platform than PCs. So does that mean that all console junkies in the world will have to throw a parade and rant around the internet, because I don't approve and try to change my mind?

Fuck that shit. Bottom line is, if you're gay, be gay. If someone doesn't like it? Tough luck. People have opinions, and if you think your opinion on the matter at hand is better than theirs, you're just as ignorant.

Hmmm...I'm not sure if I'm guilty of this. On the one hand, I fully support anyone's right to do just about anything they damn well please as long as they aren't hurting someone else. On the other, I can't watch porn that has guys in it. Don't know if those are equivalent, but it's enough to make me wonder.

Also, one may note that the Bible says "Thou shalt not lay with man as you lay with woman" or whatever so this is an attitude that was prevalent even back then (Or else, the Hebrews were not aware of lesbianism. Which makes no sense at all.).

The reason behind that, is that for the most part, women were treated more as property than anything else. If you read around the old testament, you'll find some passages that might indicate that. So the reason for this is, that women rarely had any power. But I'm pretty sure it did occur. Just wasn't as common as it is today.

 

[AwesomeNinjaPowers]

Well you know what they say

'Small minds are always connected to open mouths'

 

[Bendon]

As many of them have said, it's very difficult to get accurate numbers in any case. I'll have a further look around to see if there's any more recent stuff and get back to you on that.

The 'entertainment industry' is very select in what it accepts. If you look at gaming, not only is the medium popularised as very heterosexual-male but there are regular discussions of "Where are the homosexual people?" Hell, just hop onto most live-chat online FPS games to hear screamed insults. Similar things can be found in what I've seen of television. There are gay characters, but they're select stereotypes.

That's a good point, but if characters are realistic representations of Gay or Bisexual men, it's hard to tell that they are without having plain evidence shown. We might be playing LGBT characters in games or relating to them on TV and not even know it.

Actually, that kind of gives a little too much credit to TV and game writers...

Also, even in real life, coming out as bi is seen as a gimmick.
Sometimes bisexual characters are mistaken for gay ones too. Most people think Freddy Mercury was completely Gay... but I think he was playing with the fact that he was bi and letting people think what they wanted to. That's half the fun of being bi in the first place. I guess that's where bisexual erasure gets most of it's momentum though, through sexual ambiguity.


Hearing homophobia in FPS games isn't really that bad. People take FPS games way too seriously in the first place. They're trying not only to beat you in game, but to beat you in real life.

I have a suggestion for LGBT FPS gamers. When someone calls you a fag in game, tell them you actually are one and kill them over and over until they rage quit :>
I have used this technique many times in the past. Not only is it fun for you, it's fun for anyone on the server to watch.

 

[chronobreak]

Jesus Christ, you people will ***** about anything if it makes you feel intellectually superior. It's a Goddamn JOKE. A JOKE. They are not intending to state their position on homosexuality or gay marriage, they are MAKING A JOKE.

I'm beginning to feel like this too... I mean, I know that this thought process really does exist and some people are serious about it, but can't you just be happy knowing that they're idiots and move on with your life? Does it really cut so deep that your recourse is to rant on a forum? It's not even like there can be two sides to what you're saying, if your main complaint is women are objectified and made into a constant peep show or whatever, especially lesbian women...

Yeah, that's how it is. Men like women. Men like attractive women. Men like more than one attractive woman engaging in sexual acts at a time. Is there a double standard? You bet, but it's more one that's built into our genes than anything, unless we're talking gay men, who I would assume wouldn't find it arousing.

Hopefully this is the only thread about gay issues I post in today. For a bunch of people who just want to live in peace, we sure get all up in arms over them sometimes. I'm sure they can take care of themselves.

 

[Zero-Vash]

I think it comes down to the "fear" of being labled gay themselves. I personally have nothing against gay/lesbian relationships. Now I do enjoy seeing two attractive women together but that is because I like women. So two attractive ones together is two thumbs up. But even for the guys, while I don't find it attractive, I don't look at them any less.

I really think it's more of a relating thing for guys. Straight guys can relate to being interested in an attractive women, whether the women is straight or not; but can't relate to being attracted to a guy.

Idk, thats just my thoughts

 

[matnatz]

I've never encountered this specific viewpoint in my real life, as homosexuality is just openly hated where I live (pro-tip: It's a special hellhole just for me), but I've seen it online.

I'm not particularly accepting of said viewpoint. (I am intolerant of intolerance.)

The only problem I personally have with two dudes making out is that I don't want to see anyone making kisses.
Especially if I'm trying to talk to one or both of them. It's rude.

I was about to write that myself. People where I live don't use bumper stickers actually, they like to keep their cars looking like shop models, god bless them.

Anyway, read into anything enough and you'll find something that offends you. Just let them have their own opinion and don't think any less of them for it, hell, I've talked to racists in the past and I'm polite with them until they do something to me. If somebody has the right to date whatever sex they want then other people have the right to state their opinion, joke or not.

 

[JaredXE]

Yeah--basically that is what the OP is saying without mentioning a specific authority like the Bible. I mean, calling them hypocrites is being generous to them: being anti-something just because it's not to your *taste* is even worse than being a hypocrite.

Woah, hold on there. I am anti-pickle, they are not my to my taste and so I don't like them. So I am worse than a hypocrite? Same with onions, I only prefer them in one form: deep fried in ring shape, but detest them any other way. So I am worse than a hypocrite?

And I am anti-slavery. I detest the very concept of it. It's not to my "taste". I'm worse than a hypocrite?


I have to agree with Avykins on a couple things there. To claim to be truly tolerant and open-minded, you have to agree with the good as well as the bad. No one can be truly tolerant, what most people claim as tolerance is just tolerance OF CERTAIN THINGS. I am pro gay marriage, I am tolerant of foreign cultures and of hunters AND eco-friendly hippies. But there are many things I will not tolerate: Religion as an excuse for violence and hate, PETA, theocracies, slavery, pedophilia and rape.

Don't bash someone who doesn't automatically agree with your views as some who is hateful or intolerant.

 

[hypothetical fact]

NIMBY. Gay/straight/bi keep your sexuality far from where I can see it or I will make cat calls until you stop. Gays just never stop to think how irritating they are when I am trying to have a conversation and the person I am talking to gets distracted and stops listening. It's downright rude!

Sure I could blame my friends but it is much harder to make new friends than to convince a couple of horny fools to taking it outside.

 

[corporate_gamer]

The 'entertainment industry' is very select in what it accepts. If you look at gaming, not only is the medium popularised as very heterosexual-male but there are regular discussions of "Where are the homosexual people?" Hell, just hop onto most live-chat online FPS games to hear screamed insults. Similar things can be found in what I've seen of television. There are gay characters, but they're select stereotypes.

I think that is increasingly changing. Characters are introduced as gay as an aside, a bit of back story, instead of a major plot point. For example Kima and Omar from the Wire or Calvin from Greek. Other shows have used gay storylines but in don't resort to stereotypes. Off the top of my head theres The Sopranos and Shameless (Uk show) have had gay characters which were actual characters and no one dimension stereotypes. And i can't remember the last non-ironic gay sterotype i saw. But maybe im not watching the same TV as you

 

[fletch_talon]

Yeah--basically that is what the OP is saying without mentioning a specific authority like the Bible. I mean, calling them hypocrites is being generous to them: being anti-something just because it's not to your *taste* is even worse than being a hypocrite.

Woah, hold on there. I am anti-pickle, they are not my to my taste and so I don't like them. So I am worse than a hypocrite? Same with onions, I only prefer them in one form: deep fried in ring shape, but detest them any other way. So I am worse than a hypocrite?

And I am anti-slavery. I detest the very concept of it. It's not to my "taste". I'm worse than a hypocrite?

First off, you take the term "to my taste" a tad too literally with the food examples.
Regarding the slavery remark, one would hope you detest slavery because it violates a human being's right to freedom and is somewhat evil, as opposed to it just being "not to your taste".

I believe you'll find Cheeze is pointing out the fact that these people are anti-[male]homosexual for no good reason. You can't play the religion card for them because they apparently have no problem when its 2 women, it simply comes down to the fact that because they don't want to be gay, they feel that everyone else must fit their view of what is right.

And for the record I don't accept religious beliefs as a valid reason to be homophobic either, but at least they think they have a valid reason and they don't make exceptions based on what makes them happy in their pants.

 

[Mavand]

Culture:Culture is just an excuse to further embitter and distance people with different sexual preferences and skin color if we just forgot about our cultures the world would be a better place for everyone.

 

[Madshaw]

I'm not saying that i agree with it being used, but one argument for the supportig of lesbian relationships and not gay ones would be that anal sex can be a lot more harmful than just licking/rubbing/whatever.
So it could be justified very very loosely.

personally i think that whatever goes on between consenting adults is fair play, but i also know that i find images of two women making love sexualy appealing, and that i feel sick when two men do the same or similar

 

[JordanMillward_1]

Also, one may note that the Bible says "Thou shalt not lay with man as you lay with woman" or whatever so this is an attitude that was prevalent even back then (Or else, the Hebrews were not aware of lesbianism. Which makes no sense at all.).

Anything and everything in the Bible should be taken for what it is: A snapshot of the world as it was at the time.

Meaning, beliefs that existed thousands of years ago are not necessarily useful anymore. People in Biblical times believed homosexuality was wrong because at the time, humanity needed to punish behavior that endangered its own survival - hence religious homophobia. But now that humanity no longer requires everyone to produce offspring, homosexuality is no longer the danger it once was.

Yeah, I was just pointing out that the Bible didn't condemn lesbianism, which is a little odd if you think about it. I don't take every word in the Bible to be literal, I take as a set of guidelines for a large group of nomadic Jews (at least the Old Testament; beyond that, I have some very interesting conspiracy theories dealing with the Catholic Church and translation. i.e. (does anyone know what that's short for? Ipso examplum?) the word "witch" in the OT (OK, it's not New Testament, sue me) verse "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" should be translated correctly as "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live." Just sayin'.)

Indeed, this seems to be the case. New research on the original Hebrew version of the "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind" has pointed out that different words were used for the man (which was translated to "Thou") and the man meant in "mankind", and that the word used for the former was generally used for adult men, and the word used for the latter was generally used for male children.

This would suggest that the phrase is actually condemning paedophilia, rather than homosexuality.