Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3: A Gay Erotic Love Story

[Iron Lightning]

Alright, I guess I'll write another one.

Me too, I guess.

Actually read what I wrote for a change, and the reason for posting that and what it was reinforcing. Actually your pretty sad if you think that's a rebuttal, not that I'm argueing any further. Your sort of like the guy whose best response was to start demanding peer reviewed sources which is laugh worthy on any big issue which wouldn't be an issue in that case.

"Your sort of like the guy whose best response was to start demanding peer reviewed sources which is laugh worthy on any big issue which wouldn't be an issue in that case." I'm terribly sorry. I have no idea what this sentence means. Please try for quality instead of quantity in the future.

See that's why I don't bother, we've been down this before. People don't read what I actually say because they aren't really interested in the issue. Try to ignore you know... real experience and training, beat up some straw men that have nothing to do with what I actually said, put words into my mouth, and all of that... when really it basically amounts to "noes! I can't accept that because I want to believe something differant".

I'm reading what you say and obviously I'm interested in this. You've brought me out of lurking. Let's have a discussion.

I doubt even one person here argueing with me has even ever called one of NAMBLA's websites to do even the most cursory research into the accusations of the other side. What's more it's pretty sad when your basically trying to argue with a guy who has actually been there first hand and arguably could be considered an authority (if a minor one) because of it. I'm pretty much the guy your guy doing a paper for peer review would go to for information having been there and cite as a source for his research since another academic with the time could probably verify my employment, the fact that I had training, etc. I can't say a casino would ever release reports, but there are those on file in a storeroom somewhere too providing mountains of documentation about the crud that's happened with just the security department in one casino.

That's not how science works. Scientists don't just talk to experts. They actually investigate the thing they wish to investigate. A scientist doing research on this subject would investigate the rates of homosexuality among pedophiles instead of just asking for anecdotes from casino security personal. Again, anecdotes do not equal proof.

At any rate that's pretty much why I back away, there is no point to putting the effort into it. I think I'll probably delete the rest of the responses I get in this thread because they are going to be predictable and move onto something gaming related.

Refusing to defend your viewpoint is a big sign that you are unable to defend your viewpoint.

Things DO recur in these forums, so if you do come up with something other than the usual, you know not sitting there and saying that my facts must be flawed because they don't match what you want to believe, and other things, you'll probably have a chance for me to read it then.

What are the facts? Give them to me. I want to know them. Show me the proof and I swear that I'll believe you. Please, I want you to prove me wrong. I want to know if I am at fault.

 

[masticina]

Ah the fun of the situation really

I tell you yes people can be retarded, girls kissing and going at it.. WOOOOO two guys kissing and going at it BOOOOO HISSS

Seriously.. if you don't like it don't watch. Here in good old holland we had the first Gay Lovers Scene [very well done for its timeslot obvious] in one of those soap operas.. I don't watch them to little content. But two girls.. no troubles.. two boys..and allot of Boo's.. just shows you how even in holland things are not that far yet.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[Thyunda]

Not that it wasn't funny, but it really was a strawman argument; I think we've had enough threads about this already, but most of the objections are about canonical authenticity and over when gay relationships were introduced.

What, so if a strait femshep decides to bat for the other team in the second installment, that's acceptable?

But when a male Shepard does it, then OMG CONTINUITY FUCKUP?

That makes no sense to me.Is femshep allowed to get away with it because they're more used to seeing girls go both ways in their porn? Has no-body told these people that men can be casually bisexual as well?

Pretty damned spot on, welcome to double standards.

If you wanna grasp onto whatever flimsy straw you can to have this not seem like a last second add-on, go right ahead. I'm not. Also if continuity doesn't matter, then why have the ability to transfer saves from game to game, having decisions from the last affect the outcome of the next?

*stands up, begins slow clap*
Bravo, sir. Bravo

Agreed. And let us all thank the gods for Jim Sterling. ^^

I never really understood what the deal was about Bioware and their over-the-top-commitment to straight relationships. Femshep boning Lizard-Men is alright, but Lesbians are unholy?

Actually, it isn't Bioware's fault. They tried to have homosexual options in ME1 (the code is still in there, half done) but the guy who did the motion capture for Male Shep (some sort of Underwear model, I believe?) threw a hissy fit about anything "gay" being associated with him and threatened to not let them use his face for Shepard if they made it possible for Male Shep to be gay.

Unable to have gay Male Shep, Bioware removed Ashley from Femshep's options to make things fair.

They tried again in ME2 (again, the options are in the code, but unfinished) but hit the same wall from Mr. Underpants model.

However, since ME3 is the last game with Shepard in it, they no longer have to give a fuck about pissing Mr. Underpants off. Hence the gay options in ME3.

If I had my way my femshep would be whoring herself out to just about everyone on the normandy. She's already banged Liara and Garrus. lol

My Femshep is actually pretty specific about only dating one girl at a time (she's gay - Liara, Kelly, and (hopefully) Tali... or maybe Liara again, I can't decide).

However, my Male Shep is a total slut. Too bad you're only allowed to sleep with one crew member per game (unlike, say, Dragon Age) because, if he could, my Male Shep would work his way through every female crew member and half of the men too.

I played my Male Shep as my male DA:O character and managed to sleep with all four romancable party members before the end. I ended with Morrigan because he and she fit so well together. Also, it was hilarious when Leliana suspected I was cheating on her. I kept her happy on total bullshit while continuing to sleep with Morrigan. My Male Shep/Hero of Fereldin is a total Renegade bastard. ^^ I love him.

yeah its completely a "hissy fit" if you are uncomfortable doing something that isn't part of your sexuality. /sarcasm

Except he's not doing something. A virtual man that looks like him is doing that something.

He still has a right to decide how he is depicted, people don't have to agree with his choice, but they should respect it.

It's not him, though. It's Shepard.

It's still his image, and he should have final say over that. Actually if Bioware really want this option in the first game, why not just get a model that was ok with it?

Then identical twins should control what the other appears in.
You really don't think it's a bit petty to be upset that a virtual man who merely LOOKS like you happens to possibly have a taste for cock?

No I don't think its wrong for a person to have human feelings about how their digital image is being depicted.

Its just like if (hypothetically) the model Jacqui Ainsley didn't like being portrait as a women willing to use her body, I wouldn't try to minimize her feelings.

That's totally different. That's portraying a person as something they're not. But you see, there's this thing called 'acting'. And, since this is a digital representation of a person NOT INTENDED TO BE THE ACTOR, then I can't see any problem with how it's used. Especially since he's not a very distinctive person. If he was instantly recognisable from the image, and it was used as a slight against him, I'd understand it. But to get upset because you're a motion capture for a possibly gay character?
It's not him. It just looks like him. It has no relation to him. It's Captain Shepard. It'd be like saying Gerard Butler is without a doubt a murderer because you saw him in Law Abiding Citizen once. Only...this is actually more far-fetched.

Okay, let's really examine this point. In Law Abiding Citizen, Gerard Butler plays a loving family man who uses his tech knowledge wreak havoc not only on the murderers of his wife and daughter, but pretty much every legal and political official in the city of Philadelphia. Now what if it was decided that that backstory was too boring, so let's say the decision was made to liven it up by having him periodically beat his wife and rape his daughter before their murder. And hey, since Jamie Foxx is playing the lawyer that screwed him over in the case, let's make him a racist too. Now imagine all of this was done without Gerard Butler knowing it. This was all done with dialogue that was dubbed in by a sound-alike in post production editing. They even threw in a couple of scenes with acting doubles for him and Jamie Foxx talking about how the Emancipation Proclamation should be repealed. And he doesn't find out until he sitting at the premiere of the movie with the same wide-eyed expression of shock on his face that the rest of the audience has when they see and hear this. Now I can safely assume that Gerard Butler is not a racist, wife-beating pedophile. But you know what? He also didn't agree to play one in this movie either.

Except one is a disgusting criminal and the other is into a bit of man. And y'know what else? Law Abiding Citizen did not use Gerard Butler's likeness. It used Gerard Butler. Undeniably, inarguably, definitively Gerard Butler.
You seem to miss the distinction between playing a character you don't want to and having a man who kinda looks like you make some G-rated, fade-to-black man love.

 

[Teh Jammah]

Man, I was waiting for the bit where 'Mass Effect 3' fan then realised that he could get around this 'gayness' by having a fem-shep and make her have totally awesome lesbian sex (which we all know is the most heterosexual and manly thing ever), only to come to the horrific realisation that the game has now made him a drag queen.

 

[Soxafloppin]

Hilarious.

I had a straight face until "dick sucking lips".

 

[Xanthious]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner.
RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Hey those are just options. They wouldn't affect your Shepard. You dont like em don't use em. As for being illega, well we illegal things in games all the time so I fail to see how that's relevant. What you and those like you are really saying though isn't let's be open minded and accommodate all sorts of different people but rather simply just to accommodate you and those like you while everyone else can piss off.

Homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia and bestiality due to their non-consensual nature. Your point is moot. Morally it's similar to the reason we can't officially kill children or torture animals in games.

In a game they are exactly the same. Just ones and zeros. In reality there may be but in a game all that changes is the pixels. Again, why does one minority group deserve special treatment over any other. I say accommodate em all.

No they aren't, otherwise there wouldn't be rules about putting such things in games. It isn't illegal to show homosexuality.

Thete are no such rules in place. In the US that'd all be covered by freedom of expression.

What gets me is the same people who celebrated getting a gay Shepard are showing just how hypocritical they are. You wanted the line pushed forward and attacked those that wanted to keep it where it was. Now that you got what you want you are all for denying people the same thing. Why is it that you get say on what should or shouldn't be put in the game when you've already forced your options on others.

Because homosexuality is completely different from those other things, as I have said before, so it isn't hypocritical.

You don't have a point because you are trying to say something that is completely different is the same.

You honestly think that pedophilia is the same as homosexuality? Really? Have you absolutely no clue about what pedophilia is at all?

You might have a point if we were all sitting here defending 'Rapelay' but since we aren't your argument doesn't hold weight.

Well obviously you must be worried that having those things in the game are going to turn you into a pedophile or someone who likes them some bestiality. Because that's the only reason you could possibly find those things objectionable.

Now obviously only a fucking helmet wearing imbecile would try and make that point above in the argument whether to or to not include a pedophilia and bestiality in ME3. However, this is the same garbage that's being lobbed at the people that don't want the gay Shepards in the game.

Everyone finds different things objectionable. Some people may hold onto more conservative values and think homosexuals are objectionable. Those people have every right to not want a gay Shepard in ME3.

The bottom line is this whole thing stems from a huge problem I have with hypocrisy and double standards rampant in the gay rights crowd. They are the kind of people that think that their morals and values are unquestionably the right ones and attack anyone that has a different set. They babble on about open mindedness and acceptance but are some of the most closed minded people you will ever meet. It bothers me that I'm seeing a good bit of that same hypocrisy and double standards in this argument about ME3 and the gay romance options.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner.
RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Hey those are just options. They wouldn't affect your Shepard. You dont like em don't use em. As for being illega, well we illegal things in games all the time so I fail to see how that's relevant. What you and those like you are really saying though isn't let's be open minded and accommodate all sorts of different people but rather simply just to accommodate you and those like you while everyone else can piss off.

Homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia and bestiality due to their non-consensual nature. Your point is moot. Morally it's similar to the reason we can't officially kill children or torture animals in games.

In a game they are exactly the same. Just ones and zeros. In reality there may be but in a game all that changes is the pixels. Again, why does one minority group deserve special treatment over any other. I say accommodate em all.

No they aren't, otherwise there wouldn't be rules about putting such things in games. It isn't illegal to show homosexuality.

Thete are no such rules in place. In the US that'd all be covered by freedom of expression.

What gets me is the same people who celebrated getting a gay Shepard are showing just how hypocritical they are. You wanted the line pushed forward and attacked those that wanted to keep it where it was. Now that you got what you want you are all for denying people the same thing. Why is it that you get say on what should or shouldn't be put in the game when you've already forced your options on others.

Because homosexuality is completely different from those other things, as I have said before, so it isn't hypocritical.

You don't have a point because you are trying to say something that is completely different is the same.

You honestly think that pedophilia is the same as homosexuality? Really? Have you absolutely no clue about what pedophilia is at all?

You might have a point if we were all sitting here defending 'Rapelay' but since we aren't your argument doesn't hold weight.

Well obviously you must be worried that having those things in the game are going to turn you into a pedophile or someone who likes them some bestiality. Because that's the only reason you could possibly find those things objectionable.

Now obviously only a fucking helmet wearing imbecile would try and make that point above in the argument whether to or to not include a pedophilia and bestiality in ME3. However, this is the same garbage that's being lobbed at the people that don't want the gay Shepards in the game.

Everyone finds different things objectionable. Some people may hold onto more conservative values and think homosexuals are objectionable. Those people have every right to not want a gay Shepard in ME3.

The bottom line is this whole thing stems from a huge problem I have with hypocrisy and double standards rampant in the gay rights crowd. They are the kind of people that think that their morals and values are unquestionably the right ones and attack anyone that has a different set. They babble on about open mindedness and acceptance but are some of the most closed minded people you will ever meet. It bothers me that I'm seeing a good bit of that same hypocrisy and double standards in this argument about ME3 and the gay romance options.

But it's not hypocritical... I just pointed that out.

Subjectivity of morality has nothing to do with it. Raping a child is different from two consenting adults having sex.

I'm not sure how else I can explain this to you. It's not hypocritical because the thing people are defending in this case, homosexuality, is completely different from your example, pedophilia.

One is rape the other is consensual. If we were defending a rapist Shepard you might have a point about hypocrisy but since we aren't, you don't, sorry.

 

[LongMuckDong]

Don't worry Jim, I want to put my pee pee through my ME3 disc-hole too..

 

[MatsVS]

This was a brilliant episode, though I am not at all surprised that the point was too subtle for a lot of folks on this site.

I really wish reasonable people would stop engaging the homophobic bigots around here, though. You are validating the existence of their archaic, filthy, barbaric views by even pretending to consider their "points", you know. Fling some peanuts, make monkey sounds, point and laugh, and move on. They're barely worth even that.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

The problem with Jim's rant, is that I think he's characterizing the majority of the opposition entirely wrong, which kind of ruins what otherwise might have been a pretty impressive way of making a counter arguement about it's ridiculousness. But then again one of the problems with the left wing and those defending left wing issues is that they tend to create an image of the enemy in their own mind, and beat up straw men, without ever dealing with the actual issues.. and that's one of the reasons the US at least remains so polarized despite the left wing blowing it's own horn and trying to act like it represents a massive, clear majority when it doesn't (which is an issue well beyond this)

There is an irony in you accusing me of being left wing, and thus inventing an enemy in my head.

Because I am not left wing. I am a centrist.

So ... maybe not rely on that strawman too heavily!

 

[Still Life]

I understand some of you complained about not seeing the point in this video. I had thought the point was perfectly clear, but the camera was aimed too high to get my penis in shot. Sorry, I really screwed the shot up.

Despite my initial hesitation, I earnestly received your message loud and clear. You handled the debate emphallically [sic] and delivered unto me your position with much vigor. Despite it being a plonker of a debate for many tightly corseted boys hiding in the closet, you handled it with sensuality, much befitting the quivering breathes of the internet.

 

[goliath6711]

Except one is a disgusting criminal and the other is into a bit of man. And y'know what else? Law Abiding Citizen did not use Gerard Butler's likeness. It used Gerard Butler. Undeniably, inarguably, definitively Gerard Butler.
You seem to miss the distinction between playing a character you don't want to and having a man who kinda looks like you make some G-rated, fade-to-black man love.

No, the point is that they would have changed his character in the movie he agreed to be in without letting him know. It would be the same as his character suddenly turned into the one from The Ugly Truth or The Bounty Hunter or PS, I Love You.

 

[Thyunda]

Except one is a disgusting criminal and the other is into a bit of man. And y'know what else? Law Abiding Citizen did not use Gerard Butler's likeness. It used Gerard Butler. Undeniably, inarguably, definitively Gerard Butler.
You seem to miss the distinction between playing a character you don't want to and having a man who kinda looks like you make some G-rated, fade-to-black man love.

No, the point is that they would have changed his character in the movie he agreed to be in without letting him know. It would be the same as his character suddenly turned into the one from The Ugly Truth or The Bounty Hunter or PS, I Love You.

Except in Mass Effect the guy knew what was going on. He was just being childish.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Thank God for the variety of sexual orientations in Mass Effect.
-Oh, and for the Jimquisition too.

 

[goliath6711]

Okay, general question. What would be the feeling if one of the romance options was married? And I mean happily married with a still living spouse and child/children that they were eagerly awaiting to return home to until Shepard came along and decided to knowingly screw that up.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Its kinda silly that in ME3/Books fans rage that Shepard is gay, but in SWTOR same sex relationships seems to be by far the main thing fans want. (In the Q&As) Obviously they're not all the same people but still.

 

[nick2150]

does anyone else think Jim is the erotic novelist version of Garth Marenghi? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXBBGjUjy2c