Mass Effect isn't an RPG?!

[Browbeat]

The conventions of accepted gaming practices have pegged 'Role-playing' as a genre where levelling, equipment, outlandish monsters and lengthy plots dominate. However, any game that tracks the progress of a character you control through a set of 'intimate' experiences (critical decisions, personal growth, discovering you have three personalities and yours is the artificial one (name that game!), and forming relationships with other characters) is the crucial determining factor of role-playing.

If your in-game avatar is a platform for action delivery with no sense of player influence other than getting from A to B, then it isn't so much role play as witnessing an established entity. Role Play comes down to what you choose to do with said character, should the options exist. At the same time, some leniency is made if we are given a linear path while the character in question traverses an intricate plot.

Many JRPG's are entirely A-to-B affairs with LOTS of faffing about in-between. And lengthy, utterly trivial dialogue... (Don't lie, you love it). By merits of choice, frequently the given character has little customization available other than equipment loadout, makes their own choices regardless of your personal assessment, and generally fulfills his obligations to the plot as you watch... But if the game moves the let the player form a bond (or passing interest) with the character then it may very well earn the right to call itself a Role-Playing Game beyond marketing conventions. After all, not every role is 'free-form.' Some are confined and linear - and damn exciting!

So, to the individual consumer, RPG's are open to interpretation as to whether or not they are true Role-Players. Baldur's Gate II, for instance, is a true role-player: the story revolves around a created character in the company of detailed and memorable pro- and antagonists. Eternal Sonata is arguable, seeing as the (stuffy) plot meanders between multiple perspectives and an existential question is placed upon a meta-entity at the climax - so I would dub it a J-Adventure. Grand Theft Auto 4 is very much a role-player in terms of canonical story - but Nico's antics between missions are entirely his own.

Pitch some more ideas (or arguments) regarding whether game X is an RPG or not or if item Y proves that I'm full of it...

 

[nokori3byo]

Let me preface this by saying I agree with the OP's basic argument. I also agree with whoever said that a game that the devs describe as an RPG is most likely an RPG.

That said, I think that arguing about whether a given game belongs to a given genre is like arguing about whether Wire's "Chairs Missing" album is punk or not. If you know and like the record enough to care about the question, you're unlikely to be troubled by the answer.

ME2 is my defacto favourite game. I liked the RPG elements of the first one, but find the second a very satisfying refinement of those elements that dispenses with a lot of chaff.

Also, the question of RPG elements in various open world games came up. I think the difference here is largely one of narrative stability. Niko can run amock, murdering countless thousands and he will still wind up beign the same essentially likeable guy in the cutscenes. The same applies to Marston in RDR, a game which very deliberately integrates morality (in the form of "honor") into its gameplay. He might be a cankerous blight on the old west riding around on a pale horse, but he's still the same provider and family man in the story. Shepard's case is different, since choices shape what the character is able to do and, in some cases, whether a valued ally will live or die.

 

[Savagezion]

The fact is video games need numerical value systems assigned to things so already are set up to run as an RPG. As well, RPGs are just awesome. So, it is only natural that they have came to invade all other genres in the video game industry. Thus we need to abolish the term RPG as the fundamentals of an RPG are also the fundamentals to structure a virtual world. The only difference between an RPG and a video game is the need for hardware to do all the calculating for you; and the ability to graphically display what is being 'played out'.

I personally see the western approch to RPGs more of an actual RPG. But argueing this will never come to a conclusion because of what I have already stated. Thus, we just need new genre titles. I would use "drama" over role play personally, especially in JRPGs. Most western RPGs tend to have more of a "action/conspiracy" vibe.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

I didn;t think so cause it had little variety in appearance and choices all there were in options were "dick, nice, or meh"

 

[Altorin]

Space Opera is not a game Genre.

 

[EtherEdge]

Hmm... This whole 4 page argument honestly boils down to linguistics. Yay.

The term "RPG" honestly no longer serves to convey the words "Role-Playing-Game". Instead, it has become a part of gaming lingo. No longer (or is that never before? >_>) can one look at an "RPG" and decide if the term fits based on if there is genuine role-playing.

Basically there is a big difference between a game in which you take on roles, and an "RPG".

Like ALL language, if you decide to set your own definitions of what any particular word means, please do not argue with others about whether they are right or wrong about your particular definition.

How far one chooses to stretch the term "RPG" is up to them, however please stop handling "RPG" as an initialism. Its a term from Gamer lingo, having its own meaning that is further than its original parts, much like how n00b no longer only applies to just newbies.

As a matter of background and opinion: Ever since my childhood, playing the original Final Fantasy(-ies) and the rare bout of D&D, the term RPG is used in my mind to describe a game similar to those two games. I judge a game's genre upon how close it is to either of those.


As a side-note, I have not played either of the mass effect games, I enjoy rpg's, and shoot'em ups, but that particular series held no interest for me.


tl;dr = Semantics are a *****.

 

[Skoldpadda]

To me it feels like an rpg. There's a journal with stuff in it for me to do, and I run around the game-world (in this cas, fly around the Milky Way), ticking stuff of that grocery list before I go on with the main story. I also make choices that shape my character. I gain exp, higher level abilities and better equipment.

To me, all those things make an RPG, albeit in this case a more simplistic one, especially the sequel. The important thing to me is that it feels like an RPG, even though you go around shooting.

 

[icyneesan]

Was to lazy to read the thread or even the OP but arn't RPGs classified as a game that lets you take the role of a character who is not yourself? So couldn't all games be classified as a RPG except for those that you name your MC after you and make all his stats and skills the same as yours?

Granted anyone who makes there MC the same as them in everyway possible has to be either the greatest person or ever, or have a ego so large you could beat the final boss with it.

 

[mchoueiri]

Both Mass Effect games are RPGs.

Mass Effect 2 is more of a shooter than Mass Effect, but that doesn't make it less of an RPG. When you get down to it, Shephard has around the same number of skill bars to fill once you've factored in the removal of intimidate/charm; and that's because they're governed by the dialogue choices you make.

The inventory system's a shit-load better too, and whilst they could have done with more weapons in the full game, it was just improving the sections shooting sections. So like I said, more of a shooter doesn't necessarily mean less of an RPG.

Oh, and since someone will come up with this annoying answer: no, not every game is an RPG just because you fill the role of a character. Each genre has it's major staples, simply playing as a character is a statement of all games (arguably not some RTS's).

I would agree and say that ME 2 just tightened the shooting controls.

 

[Tom Schofield]

when it comes to mass effect 2, i'd describe as a "role playing shooter" like borderlands and mass effect 1 is more of an rpg by my standards like drunk ninja said its the role your playing.you make choices and twist the story but with stats and levels. but if rpgs are defined by the roles only then wouldn't heavy rain be an rpg because of the roles and the different things u can do to manipulate the story?

 

[Apocalypse Tank]

Modern titles are complex enough that numerous genres can be applied to its definition.
To describe ME2 as an RPG, however, is more accurate than to describe it as a Third Person Shooter.

 

[MrHero17]

I consider and RPG to be a game that focuses on actually role-playing a character in a significant capacity, so DA:O,ME and Baldurs Gate are RPG's to me. I classify all the other things about stats and EXP to be "rpg elements" since if you look at DnD the stats are really just to guide you in playing your chosen role.

So I would call Mass Effect a TPSRPG(since it's a roleplaying ame where you shoot people with a third person camera) and Pokemon to be a turn based combat game that works via RPG elements.

 

[Kortney]

I can't accept Mass Effect as an RPG because Shepard is already a defined character. What sets an RPG apart is the slot where you define your own character.

Then KOTOR isn't an RPG either because Revan is already a defined character.

I think that's nonsense. Only Shepard's name is already defined. You can choose Shepard's sex, talents, play style, love interest, personality, etc. That's enough for me to call it a role playing game.

perhaps you need to go play KOTOR again? you are playing as someone who has "amnesia", you may wish to "become" Revan again if you wish however but you are still technically a new person who has yet to predefine their (your) identity

again, you fail to see why they left the surname unchangeable, as you could see Bioware wanted the voice acting to relate to the user and the only way to do that was to have a predefine (sur)name.

I didn't "fail" to see anything and I'd appreciate it if you didn't talk to me in that tone. I was simply stating the fact that the only thing predetermined about Mass Effect is the name of the character. It's still an RPG because you can choose pretty much everything else about the character.

But I don't really care. I have a life believe it or not and I don't particularly enjoy being involved in an argument about what game is "truly" an RPG and what game is not. The fact Bioware call Mass Effect an RPG is good enough for me. Sod it.

The only difference Mass Effect has to KOTOR is that Mass Effect's character has a last name that is spoken by NPCs, it has fully spoken dialog (so the character's voice is predefined according to gender) and has real time combat. That's it. If that makes one an RPG and one not an RPG then whatever; it makes no sense. I'm not bothered.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

snip

And for the record, ME2 is an Action RPG, in the same vein as (egads!) JRPGs like Demon's Souls and Secret of Mana.

Okay, seriously? I haven't mentioned JRPGs once in this entire fucking thread, which I could have done very easily. I did not start this for yet another JRPG bash session. So, don't take it the wrong way when I ask you to chill out and stop going apeshit about this.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

I'm currently replaying KotOR II after a six year hiatus and while I enjoy it I can safely say that if Mass Effect had that same select, wait and hope combat I'd slash my wrists.

Currently my Jedi is so stupidly powerful that it's click and kill; all challenge is gone and I know from experience I'm only two thirds of the way through the game.

 

[Knight Templar]

You asked that would involve a lot of choices if one were to live out the role of a character.
I counter asked with; Why would a ride-along RPG be considered less than one where you pick choices?

It was a real question. Let me re-phrase: Wouldn't a game in which you play/live out the role of a character need choices to be living out/playing a role?

There is more to an RPG than just playing a role, it's the way in which you play that role. leveling up stats, making choices, both mean you're playing a role. But the way you phrased yourself made me think you might consider Pokemon not to be an RPG.
RPG isn't a statement on quality, its descriptive, or it would be if it wasn't so damn broad.