Pardon me for my ignorance, but why is that a ridiculous plot twist? I thought it actually worked fairly well, and the following scene (where Sam goes nuts) set the scene perfectly.
because she died. She was dead. And for her to just magically come back completely unharmed and happy to see her supposedly dead dad is pretty lame. It's magical plot filler. And yes it set up the scene nicely, but it was still a massive plot hole.
You do remember the scene where Lambert's plan was revealed, right? Where the whole thing turned out to be an elaborate sham to keep Sam from being blackmailed? Pardon me (again), but I thought the entire thing was rather solid.
I can name a few:
Look, the old abandoned collapsing house is actually haunted! And I have to fight my way out!
Look, the person who told me to kill hundreds of innocents is actually bad!
Look, the person who always questioned my orders has formed his own army to fight us!
And last but not least: The Nazis/aliens/malevolent deity is actually behind it all!
Oh, example? Well, the catalyst for the invasion of America is the terrorist attack in a Russian airport where there was one American corpse..... Okay.
To think that Russian security was so lax there that they didn't check the cameras to see who else was involved, or that American intelligencia wouldn't be out there doing a massive CYA job to prevent such an invasion from happening by their fault is lowbrow thinking at its utmost.
The entire plot for Modern Warfare 2 was one big facepalm after another.
Makarov is a TERRORIST FOR HIRE. Using American weapons and having an American body makes it look like the CIA funded and supported the "No Russian" terrorist attack (which the CIA is actually quite famous for, such as when the CIA supplied arms to Jihadists in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation and death squads in South American countries.). Also, the Russian government is run by the Ultranationalists, the antagonists of CoD4.
My problem with the scenario, and other similar ones, is that there is no way the USSR or any nation that could represent a plausible threat would be able to attack American Soil with any kind of speed. Things like "ACS modules" and "bypassing the American Early Warning system" miss one of the major reasons why the US is such a military power:
We pretty much own the oceans.
See, the US owns all these little islands all through both oceans, as well as maintaining a number of island nations like Guam, Samoa, Puerto Rico, etc... as Territories of the United States.
The thing is that we use these islands for logistics and security. The US having not only a large Navy, but the abillity to keep it constantly supplied and pretty much reach anywhere in the world is one of our major advantages. What's more we prevent other nations from using these same islands, and have made a good portion of the world dependant on the good will of the US when it comes to ocean travel. Allied nations and the UN heavily rely on the US infrastructure for their activities, and this is ALSO why an Embargo from the US is a big deal because we really can police shipping/trade if we choose to do so.... a short version, but that's the basic situation.
Simply put there are security protocols in place, and nobody is going to get a massive navy/military force to the US without it being noticed. Even if some systems were bypassed a bunch of Russians moving enough hardware to successfully give the US a headache from East to West, especially with a fictional "ultra megalomaniac" group in charge, just isn't going to happen.
The US's seperation from the rest of the world by the oceans, is one of the things that makes it so powerful, since the US can project it's power (and has been able to since World War II) but other nations cannot do so feasibly. This is also why those with an eye for such things are concerned about China's naval build up, which is theroized to reach the level of a viable threat to that infrastructure if it continues.
Also one of the things to consider is that Mexico largely acts as a buffer state (like it or not). We'd notice anything big enough to be a threat like this coming in from either ocean, and heading to any nation around here. The thing is though that anyone landing an army south of us is going to probably have to do it in South or Central America, and then get those troops through Mexico, and chances are that means they are going to be engaged there (by us, even if the Mexicans object). Basically they aren't getting onto US soil easily. Even if Canada somehow sold out, again we'd have plenty of warning before enough forces to launch a signifigant invasion could be brought there...
However getting the troops to the American continent isn't the only problem, you've also got to supply them, and that's where the US stranglehold on the oceans comes in. Chances are to launch a viable invasion FIRST someone is going to have to spend years and years fighting the US Navy and digging us out of all those islands, and there goes your "surprise attack".
All these massive military bases we have in places like Japan and Guam are there for a reason, and that's not counting the small little little island set ups we have.
Consider the Cuban Missle Crisis was basically because Russian ships were interdicted on their way to bringing missles into Cuba.... if anything it's gotten much harder since then.
You're overall problem is that you are taking a fucking video game too seriously. This is a video game, not a fucking documentary and not a fucking Pentagon war strategy simulation.
Unlike a documentary or war simulation, players need a certain amount of suspension of belief to play video games. We know that it's impossible for soldiers to heal over time if their not damaged, but we accept that's how it works in the game. We know that soldiers aren't deployed for the sole purpose of capturing an enemy's flag as many times as possible.
Likewise, we know that a Russian invasion of the US is improbable. BUT THAT'S PART OF THE FUN OF A VIDEO GAME. So stop taking a video game so fucking seriously.
Edit: While it's your right to criticize MW2's plot, it's also my right to criticize your opinion.
And in this game: all nuclear weapons have been disarmed, besides the one that Price uses as an EMP that would totally not eventually kill all the people in D.C unnaturally(I'm too cheap for a sarcasm mark.);
Yeah, I agree it is a plot hole as to why the Russian's didn't attempt to nuke the US again. I just chalk it up to a IW's thought process along the lines of "well, we can't use nukes again... how about an invasion?".
But as for the nuke over DC... Ever heard of High Altitude Nuclear Explosions testing? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_altitude_nuclear_explosion] yeah, that's basically what the nuke over DC was, so unfortunately for you, there won't be fallout and that's the reason why the soldiers in DC aren't glowing greener than their flares.
IHateDaManSkirt said:
the U.S. is too stupid to give other countries the security tape; killing Makarov's guards and capturing him(so he doesn't become a martyr) is impossible;
Umm... actually, seeing as how it was Gen. Shepard that was managing the operation and actually wanted the US to be blamed.... sorry, not exactly a plot hole.
IHateDaManSkirt said:
no country would tell the U.S. about the invading force(They only captured the U.S. satellite device.);
Respected...? Umm... you do know that the rosters for military task forces are presumably classified? What else can other countries do when they're told that 'x' and 'y' are terrorists?
IHateDaManSkirt said:
the Russian people are retarded; and General whatshisname is also retarded.
He's the very, very best yet he can't go ONE DAY without his proseum? Also, why didn't anyone ever question his obvious emotional reactions (His partner was shot for reading a book, and the Preston character is on the verge of an emotional breakdown for half the movie). Or how did the not find his fingerprints on the guns he used to kill several soldiers without wearing gloves while he used them? Not to mention the obvious 1984 themes, but that's a different discussion al together.
I've really no clue as to why people stand that movie.
It gets a little complicated - partly because when the Oracle explains something, she explains it a way that Neo will understand but the audience rarely do.
Looking about a bit though, the idea is that Neo was created to counter the tiny population that rejected the Matrix. When he was supposed fulfill the Path of the One (which he didn't because he went to save Trinity) it does something to momentarily make the Matrix accepted by 100% of the population, allowing for a "system reboot". If they couldn't reboot, then the Matrix would essentially crash and kill all the humans.
Neo therefore is basically a System Administrator inside the Matrix, meaning he's linked to the Source (which is the mainframe for both the Matrix and the machine city I think). As he's linked to the Source, he's linked to all the machines as well, which allows him to make them all spontaneously combust. Whether that mean's he's 100% human or not I don't know.
As for his "blind-sight" power, I think he can only see things related to the machines (he sees the fields and pipelines in the machine city but can't see anything when they go above the clouds). When he sees Bane, he sees him as Smith because he's gone from the Matrix to the real world. He can't see Trinity when they crash because she's not related to the machines (and unlike Smith-Bane she goes from the read world to the Matrix).
I think that's about it - they really don't spend enough time on it in the films, and I've theorised a little bit.
Actually when the Oracle and the Architect explain the existance of Zion and it's purpose, I always thought that that was a huge plot hole. So lemme get this straight, you can't fool 100% of the people....I get that. So you 'allow' these dissidents to wake up, form a rebellion, gather in one place and then kill them all and start the whole cycle over again.
Why not just kill them? I mean, why allow them to gather and forment rebellion when you could cut off their feeding tubes in those pods and just kill the few thousand or so that don't accept the Matrix. No need for a Neo, no need for a Zion, no small chance that your plans could fail.
THAT is how a logical AI would think of a solution.
Forcing the player to die or sacrifice lives even though there were two companions in the game that rendered this completely unnecessary thanks to their immunity to radiation.
yeah, I was yelling at my screen about that one. The thing exploded before I was done arguing with the TV.
squidbuddy99 said:
There's this one plot hole in Assasins Creed II that really bugs me:
So, after Ezio stops Rodrigo Borgia from getting the Piece of Eden, we fast-foreward a few years in the Animus. Our faithful (if a bit douchy) British friend then suddenly realises that Borgio was a pope. So the expert historian just now realised that the main evil guy and head conspirator was once a POPE? I knew he was a pope from my 10th grade history class!
Just because you are an "expert historian" doesn't mean you know everything. I don't even remember ever getting his name. I just remember him being referred to as "The Spaniard".
Oh, example? Well, the catalyst for the invasion of America is the terrorist attack in a Russian airport where there was one American corpse..... Okay.
To think that Russian security was so lax there that they didn't check the cameras to see who else was involved, or that American intelligencia wouldn't be out there doing a massive CYA job to prevent such an invasion from happening by their fault is lowbrow thinking at its utmost.
The entire plot for Modern Warfare 2 was one big facepalm after another.
Makarov is a TERRORIST FOR HIRE. Using American weapons and having an American body makes it look like the CIA funded and supported the "No Russian" terrorist attack (which the CIA is actually quite famous for, such as when the CIA supplied arms to Jihadists in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation and death squads in South American countries.). Also, the Russian government is run by the Ultranationalists, the antagonists of CoD4.
My problem with the scenario, and other similar ones, is that there is no way the USSR or any nation that could represent a plausible threat would be able to attack American Soil with any kind of speed. Things like "ACS modules" and "bypassing the American Early Warning system" miss one of the major reasons why the US is such a military power:
We pretty much own the oceans.
See, the US owns all these little islands all through both oceans, as well as maintaining a number of island nations like Guam, Samoa, Puerto Rico, etc... as Territories of the United States.
The thing is that we use these islands for logistics and security. The US having not only a large Navy, but the abillity to keep it constantly supplied and pretty much reach anywhere in the world is one of our major advantages. What's more we prevent other nations from using these same islands, and have made a good portion of the world dependant on the good will of the US when it comes to ocean travel. Allied nations and the UN heavily rely on the US infrastructure for their activities, and this is ALSO why an Embargo from the US is a big deal because we really can police shipping/trade if we choose to do so.... a short version, but that's the basic situation.
Simply put there are security protocols in place, and nobody is going to get a massive navy/military force to the US without it being noticed. Even if some systems were bypassed a bunch of Russians moving enough hardware to successfully give the US a headache from East to West, especially with a fictional "ultra megalomaniac" group in charge, just isn't going to happen.
The US's seperation from the rest of the world by the oceans, is one of the things that makes it so powerful, since the US can project it's power (and has been able to since World War II) but other nations cannot do so feasibly. This is also why those with an eye for such things are concerned about China's naval build up, which is theroized to reach the level of a viable threat to that infrastructure if it continues.
Also one of the things to consider is that Mexico largely acts as a buffer state (like it or not). We'd notice anything big enough to be a threat like this coming in from either ocean, and heading to any nation around here. The thing is though that anyone landing an army south of us is going to probably have to do it in South or Central America, and then get those troops through Mexico, and chances are that means they are going to be engaged there (by us, even if the Mexicans object). Basically they aren't getting onto US soil easily. Even if Canada somehow sold out, again we'd have plenty of warning before enough forces to launch a signifigant invasion could be brought there...
However getting the troops to the American continent isn't the only problem, you've also got to supply them, and that's where the US stranglehold on the oceans comes in. Chances are to launch a viable invasion FIRST someone is going to have to spend years and years fighting the US Navy and digging us out of all those islands, and there goes your "surprise attack".
All these massive military bases we have in places like Japan and Guam are there for a reason, and that's not counting the small little little island set ups we have.
Consider the Cuban Missle Crisis was basically because Russian ships were interdicted on their way to bringing missles into Cuba.... if anything it's gotten much harder since then.
You're overall problem is that you are taking a fucking video game too seriously. This is a video game, not a fucking documentary and not a fucking Pentagon war strategy simulation.
Unlike a documentary or war simulation, players need a certain amount of suspension of belief to play video games. We know that it's impossible for soldiers to heal over time if their not damaged, but we accept that's how it works in the game. We know that soldiers aren't deployed for the sole purpose of capturing an enemy's flag as many times as possible.
Likewise, we know that a Russian invasion of the US is improbable. BUT THAT'S PART OF THE FUN OF A VIDEO GAME. So stop taking a video game so fucking seriously.
Edit: While it's your right to criticize MW2's plot, it's also my right to criticize your opinion.
He's the very, very best yet he can't go ONE DAY without his proseum? Also, why didn't anyone ever question his obvious emotional reactions (His partner was shot for reading a book, and the Preston character is on the verge of an emotional breakdown for half the movie). Or how did the not find his fingerprints on the guns he used to kill several soldiers without wearing gloves while he used them? Not to mention the obvious 1984 themes, but that's a different discussion al together.
I've really no clue as to why people stand that movie.
The only one I can think of is The Dark Knight (I know, it's not really gaming, whatever.)
As much as I love that movie, it's just littered with inconsistencies.
Why would Joker give two different versions of how he got his scars? He's insane, none of the versions are probably true. Maybe he gave those scars to himself, he just wants to mess with his victim's mind
When would he find time rig two entire boats? Joker always plans ahead, plus he has a lot of henchmen
How can he join a soldier parade without anybody noticing the big lip scars? This I have no idea
Why is Batman taking the heat for Two-Face? Harvey Dent was Gotham's hero, everyone thought of him as the city's hope. More him than even Batman. Joker, however managed to turn even him evil by killing Rachael and messing with his head telling him that it wasn't him who killed her. The city's hero then started killing civilians and policemen. The citizens would lose hope. However, they didn't like Batman much before then.
And most importantly: Why is defeating ten henchmen single-handedly more difficult then a single person with a knife? Or a dog, for that matter? Oh come on, ten henchmen are all large targets. Batman can shoot a batarang at them and stuff. Plus he has bulletproof armor. Dogs are agile, a small target and has very sharp teeth, sharp enough to bite through his armor (shown in the beginning of the movie). You ever been in one of those situations where you would fight your two of your classmates for eighty cents but run the hell away when being chased by a bulldog? Most would rather get assaulted by two people than get my flesh ripped off by a bulldog.
EDIT: I found a gaming-related one:
If Isaac's wife, from Dead Space, is a product of his imagination: HOW COULD SHE HAVE OPENED A DOOR FOR HIM VIA A COMPUTER NETWORK?!
Now the big problem I had with "The Matrix" was that things were relying on increasingly unlikely turns of events to justify the storyline. For example when you had the entire "meatspace" thing with Smith, his major action is pretty much to stop Zion's fleet of ships by setting off one of the EMP bombs. If he had not done this, chances are Zion would have wiped out The Machines all on their own (a point I might mention that The Machines never seem to acknowlege in all of their ranting. They pretty much only survived due to dumb luck. Their master plan had already effectively failed). The thing is that I find it hard to believe that one dude could have done that much damage that way, one would have expected that any coordinated fleet like this would be prepared for what amounts to a munitions misfire (albiet this time done intentionally).
That was one of the things that struck me about that event - if you've got such a powerful weapon, you'd better do damn well to protect it! Then again, it's one of the things that I can see happen. Think about it - you trust something as insidious and evil as Smith as a fellow crewman and it's almost inevitable that everyone's going to die. I can see the sequence, the fleet waiting in formation as Smith butchers the crew stealthily one by one, playing on their thoughtless trust to lure them away from the others. Blood drips from his hands as he takes the EMP key from the captain's corpse, and smile plays around his lips as he hits the button. A single motion wipes out almost the entire fleet.
Forcing the player to die or sacrifice lives even though there were two companions in the game that rendered this completely unnecessary thanks to their immunity to radiation.
That's not even a plot hole, that's really just a moral choice if you wanted to you can send FAWKS (if you have him) to go and activate the purifier...and you don't die
If MW2 didn't throw realism out the window, it wouldn't be a game, and a game wouldn't be a game if didn't throw realism out the window (it would be a simulation, not a game).
misfit119 said:
MW1 had an incredibly realistic story and it really drew me into it even though I was hellbent on not enjoying myself. MW2 is more of a Hollywood action movie - just shut off your brain and watch the big bada booms. It's going to cause plenty of complaints since it just feels out of synch with the previous game.
As a matter of fact, I think both MW1 and MW2, like most other games, are both very unrealistic. MW1 (Imo) just had a plot that easier to follow, not to mention better written, better paced, and better presented than MW2.
Just a comment about the Fallout3 ending. Player companions were sort of a last minute addition to the game and were never meant to accompany the player throughout most of the story. So originally, they weren't supposed to be with the player at the Jefferson Memorial. It wasn't until after they were programmed to play a much larger role that Bethesdas realized the problems they created during the final "sacrifice" scene. Bethesda tried to write in motivations for the characters' refusals to enter the chamber, but obviously some of them were questionable at best.
The only one I can think of is The Dark Knight (I know, it's not really gaming, whatever.)
As much as I love that movie, it's just littered with inconsistencies.
Why would Joker give two different versions of how he got his scars?
When would he find time rig two entire boats?
How can he join a soldier parade without anybody noticing the big lip scars?
Why is Batman taking the heat for Two-Face?
And most importantly: Why is defeating ten henchmen single-handedly more difficult then a single person with a knife? Or a dog, for that matter?
I have a few counters for your inconsistencies (Cause I love batman)
1. cause he's literally insane. I also think that was meant to be a wink at how there's like 12 backstories to how he became the Joker and who he was before.
2. He probably didn't he has henchmen for that.
3. ... I got nothing on this, you really do have a point, though if it was anything but soldiers I might give it a try...
4. He's doing it cause people saw Harvey as a good guy before he went nuts and no one knew he went nuts except for the people that he killed, batman, Joker, and gordan so for the sake of the majority it was needed. (i imagine it'd be like finding a real superman and then after he did cool superman things you found out he massacred a couple people, it stains the whole 'hero' look)
5. the best I got for this one is comic book logic. and, well there's really no sense in that so you're still technically right.
I have read so many books and seen so many movies etc. that I have the ability to predict the plot turns and twists with alarming accuracy on the first viewing/experience.
Either that or I have an awesome intuition.
Or both.
OT: Battlefield Bad Company 2 when the commander dude turns on you for the russian dude in vengance for his father dude who died by direct order of the gov't.
1. Silver is against a red, flaming sky in the intro to Sonic's stories, yet he is against a blue one during the same scene in his game.
2. Elise never saw Silver, she was sleeping when he put the flaming demon in her, why did she have that little flashback thing with Silver the first time she saw Sonic if SHE DIDN'T SEE HIM.
3. Did Eggman make two of all his boss robots?
4. At one point in both Sonic's and Shadows stories, they are attacked by the future flame monster thingy. However, they both fight it seperately, without the other being present.
5. Why is Shadow (who is suppose to be FASTER then Sonic) suddenly slow as crap and forced to rely on crappy motorcycles?
6. How did Eggman plan to control the giant monster thingy again?
7. How did Blaze see Silver's premonision or what ever it was? when he saw Sonic?
8. What is everybody from Tails to Omega doing in the city again? Ok, I can understand Tails, Sonic contacted him to help with an Eggman attack, but why has Knuckles so willingly left his Master Emerald gaurd duty?
9. At the end of the game, Elise blows out a candle thing that prevents the entire game's story to cease existing (thank god). Doesn't this create about twelve time Paradoxes?
Actually, I thought the whole thing about the scars was the first time I really started appreciating the character. He's just out to fuck with people. He gives wildly different stories because he wants people to second guess him all the time, to create a confusing mythos surrounding him, starting urban legends about himself. That or he's just completely insane and did it himself, and thinks each story is true, independently of it. It was basically the film telling you "Yeah, you'll never know if anything about this guy is true."
And that's what made him so great.
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