Need help with Romance? Who you gonna call?

[rossatdi]

I didn't say there were any tricks. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure earlier on I said there were NO TRICKS. At best, I gave someone an exercise that will help put them on the path to being more confident. You say it yourself "with practice it comes". Thats exactly what I've been preaching, and completely contradictory to your first sentence in that paragraph.

Why are you preaching it? It's common sense.

 

[Legion]

*snip*

If the intention of your posts is to be seen as an asshole then good job. I don't think many people care about what you have to say on this matter (as is clear from the fact you are the only negative replier).

I personally agree with the gist of what's been said. Most peoples issues is confidence more than anything else.

So society needs people going around teaching people how to fix it? If you're too shy to fix it yourself, you're probably too shy to follow advice to fix it. Just all seems like useless advice that serves to inflate this guy's ego.

Simply put if you don't have the confidence to ask the girl out, you don't deserve the girl. One can only grow a pair, you can't be taught to have them.

The ironic thing is that the way you talk about it sounds more like a game than the way dwightsteel does.

I agree with your points, but you are saying what dwight says with different wording, you criticise him for having an ego because he is offering advice but then immediately give advice of your own.

My point being that you are just as egotistical (if not more so) than he is, because unlike you he has already said "you don't have to take my advice" whereas you talk like you are an expert.

What I'm attacking is this imaginary pedestal of advice he's put himself on. He's already said that practice is the key, so basically his entire 'I've helped 50 specific cases find meaningful relationships!" can be boiled down to:

1) Confidence is key.
2) If you don't have, get it.
3) By practice.

These things are standard for most things in life. I don't get how any of his advice qualifies as worth listening to as it is common sense.

People who lack confidence sometimes need that little extra push. Not just with romance but with all things. Having someone tell you something (even if it's fairly obvious) can help people with that.

Giving people little ideas to try out to boost confidence/condition themselves may seem like an obvious idea, but it's much more so when someone says it to you.

The fact of the matter is that nobody forced you to read it and for those who genuinely appreciate the topic, you are ruining it for them, which amounts to trolling.

 

[dwightsteel]

I didn't say there were any tricks. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure earlier on I said there were NO TRICKS. At best, I gave someone an exercise that will help put them on the path to being more confident. You say it yourself "with practice it comes". Thats exactly what I've been preaching, and completely contradictory to your first sentence in that paragraph.

Why are you preaching it? It's common sense.

To you maybe. Not to some other people. Or maybe it is, but they don't know where to begin. In the post your referring to, he claims to have low self esteem and didn't seem to have a starting point to fixing it. I gave my 2 cents. If he decides not to go with what I said, then that's his prerogative. I just wanted to help. Besides, you're dwelling on one post. Half the stuff I've addressed in this thread were about other issues.

EDIT: I don't see myself as putting me up on a pedestal. That's you. The fact is that this is something I've been doing for a while now. If I think I'm good at it, it's only because I've seen my advice produce results. If I help no one here, then that's fine, but if even one person takes something useful out of this, then I feel good about it. I'm sorry if you think I'm doing this to make myself look cooler on these forums, but all I can do is tell you that I'm not about that, and hope you believe me.

 

[rossatdi]

People who lack confidence sometimes need that little extra push. Not just with romance but with all things. Having someone tell you something (even if it's fairly obvious) can help people with that.

Giving people little ideas to try out to boost confidence/condition themselves may seem like an obvious idea, but it's much more so when someone says it to you.

The fact of the matter is that nobody forced you to read it and for those who genuinely appreciate the topic, you are ruining it for them, which amounts to trolling.

So you're kind of implying that as long as he replied each time with a cheery "Just get out there and be the best person you can be!" it'll solve problems. Good to know, I think I'll start this self-malarkey. I can already feel the joyous swell of a job well done.

Good thing he's said he'll respond to all PMs. Otherwise this would be totally ruining it.

 

[HateDread]

What I'm attacking is this imaginary pedestal of advice he's put himself on. He's already said that practice is the key, so basically his entire 'I've helped 50 specific cases find meaningful relationships!" can be boiled down to:

1) Confidence is key.
2) If you don't have, get it.
3) By practice.

These things are standard for most things in life. I don't get how any of his advice qualifies as worth listening to as it is common sense.

Apart from the fact that it helps, a lot, to have someone who appears to 'know there stuff' provide an unbiased point of view, with advice, however obvious it may seem. I've benefited from it, as have many others posting here, as well as those not confident enough to ask/have already had their questions answered.

You may not need it.

Some of us do.

Bugger off.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

Wow, this was the last thing I expected this thread to be. And I'm desparate enough to ask things.

I'm not anywhere near a handsome guy, and I tend to be fairly awkward around women. I'm good at making friends with them, but beyond that, I'm lost. Every time I try and ask out a girl, they play it off as if it's a joke, and when I press the issue... well, it hasn't gone well.

I have severe self-esteem issues and can't seem to find a lass. My female friends have accused me of being too boxed-in, which may be true.

I just don't know what ta do.

I'm totally pathetic for asking this, but it's the internet and I don't care. What should I do, oh Guru?

Basically the same. Low self esteem, can make friends but nothing beyond that, not very sociable (especially with girls), but as well as that I can't build up enough courage to ask them out when I want to.

So yeah, any advise?

 

[Legion]

People who lack confidence sometimes need that little extra push. Not just with romance but with all things. Having someone tell you something (even if it's fairly obvious) can help people with that.

Giving people little ideas to try out to boost confidence/condition themselves may seem like an obvious idea, but it's much more so when someone says it to you.

The fact of the matter is that nobody forced you to read it and for those who genuinely appreciate the topic, you are ruining it for them, which amounts to trolling.

So you're kind of implying that as long as he replied each time with a cheery "Just get out there and be the best person you can be!" it'll solve problems. Good to know, I think I'll start this self-malarkey. I can already feel the joyous swell of a job well done.

Good thing he's said he'll respond to all PMs. Otherwise this would be totally ruining it.

Read my post again then give a proper answer if you are going to bother replying, because that isn't what I said.

 

[j0z]

Okay, I'll do this, but only because this is the internet and no one knows me, and a certain friend never logs on.
Here it goes, I know this girl that I really like. We started sitting together at lunch ( actually she came and sat with me ) and we would talk the entire lunch period. But, I never had the courage to ask her out. She is also friends with my best friend, but as a friend only. There is another guy that is after her, but me and a couple of other guys think he is not serious, since he is often after several girls at once.
There is a county fair ( I wonder you brits and australians have that kind of stuff. ) at the end of the month, and I am thinking of trying to get together then.
So my question is this: how is the best way to go about it ( never dated before ) in a way that doesn't spell doom if I fail. I'm afraid if I don't show any signs of wanting to date, I will fall into the trap of her liking me as a friend, and that's it.

It's true. If you don't make a move, someone else will. That's nature my friend. Before I determine what I would take as a next step, tell me some more about the nature of your friendship. You said she sat by you first. Tell me what kind of things you talk about. How intimate has she been with you? Does she tell you about the kind of guys she likes?

She first started siting with me after she and her boyfriend started to breakup. It was, of course, not a clean break, and he was kinda a dick about it.
Me and her have some in common, as much as can be expected when she is a non-gamer (sorta, she does play an old N64. Me and her talk about everyday on Myspace, on a wide range of topics. The only topic we don't venture into is the realm of computer hardware/software. Can't say I blame her really. As for the kind of guys she likes, well, her ex-boyfriend was almost universally held to be unworthy of her, and she is friends with a guy that is one of the biggest computer geeks I know. So yeah, she is pretty comfortable around our kind, and she is often more likely to hang out with guys than girls because she says she finds guys more interesting.
I dropped her a message on Myspace a few minutes ago, asking about the fair thing, so *fingers crossed* she is agreeable to hanging out for a couple of days.

 

[dwightsteel]

Wow, this was the last thing I expected this thread to be. And I'm desparate enough to ask things.

I'm not anywhere near a handsome guy, and I tend to be fairly awkward around women. I'm good at making friends with them, but beyond that, I'm lost. Every time I try and ask out a girl, they play it off as if it's a joke, and when I press the issue... well, it hasn't gone well.

I have severe self-esteem issues and can't seem to find a lass. My female friends have accused me of being too boxed-in, which may be true.

I just don't know what ta do.

I'm totally pathetic for asking this, but it's the internet and I don't care. What should I do, oh Guru?

Basically the same. Low self esteem, can make friends but nothing beyond that, not very sociable (especially with girls), but as well as that I can't build up enough courage to ask them out when I want to.

So yeah, any advise?

I'll refer you back to this post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.122397.2461432]. It's my more or less the confidence builder exercise that I developed, and played with. Just remember, the worst thing that can happen is they say "no". When that happens, you move on.

 

[rossatdi]

I think this whole thread needs a big hug from the Taking-Oneself-Too-Seriously Bear.

Frankly I'm amazed this computer games forum would tolerate someone putting themselves up as a romance doctor. I'm struggling for the words, its all just so ... embarrassingly earnest.

 

[dwightsteel]

Okay, I'll do this, but only because this is the internet and no one knows me, and a certain friend never logs on.
Here it goes, I know this girl that I really like. We started sitting together at lunch ( actually she came and sat with me ) and we would talk the entire lunch period. But, I never had the courage to ask her out. She is also friends with my best friend, but as a friend only. There is another guy that is after her, but me and a couple of other guys think he is not serious, since he is often after several girls at once.
There is a county fair ( I wonder you brits and australians have that kind of stuff. ) at the end of the month, and I am thinking of trying to get together then.
So my question is this: how is the best way to go about it ( never dated before ) in a way that doesn't spell doom if I fail. I'm afraid if I don't show any signs of wanting to date, I will fall into the trap of her liking me as a friend, and that's it.

It's true. If you don't make a move, someone else will. That's nature my friend. Before I determine what I would take as a next step, tell me some more about the nature of your friendship. You said she sat by you first. Tell me what kind of things you talk about. How intimate has she been with you? Does she tell you about the kind of guys she likes?

She first started siting with me after she and her boyfriend started to breakup. It was, of course, not a clean break, and he was kinda a dick about it.
Me and her have some in common, as much as can be expected when she is a non-gamer (sorta, she does play an old N64. Me and her talk about everyday on Myspace, on a wide range of topics. The only topic we don't venture into is the realm of computer hardware/software. Can't say I blame her really. As for the kind of guys she likes, well, her ex-boyfriend was almost universally held to be unworthy of her, and she is friends with a guy that is one of the biggest computer geeks I know. So yeah, she is pretty comfortable around our kind, and she is often more likely to hang out with guys than girls because she says she finds guys more interesting.
I dropped her a message on Myspace a few minutes ago, asking about the fair thing, so *fingers crossed* she is agreeable to hanging out for a couple of days.

Well, I wouldn't have gone the MySpace route, personally, but regardless, getting it out there is never a bad first step. This is harder, because if not for the whole "she's more likely to hang out with guys" line, I could assume she was probably playing a common approach that girls use. She knows you have those "geeky" aspects about you, which is good, because she clearly down with that part of you (though I would continue to not overwhelm her with it). See how she responds with her MySpace post. If she accepts, then at some point at the fair, tell her that you are interested in "exploring beyond just friendship." Don't come out and say "I like you," and start pouring your heart out. That would be awkward. But let her know there is interest, and see where she goes from there.

 

[Triple G]

Wow, this was the last thing I expected this thread to be. And I'm desparate enough to ask things.

I'm not anywhere near a handsome guy, and I tend to be fairly awkward around women. I'm good at making friends with them, but beyond that, I'm lost. Every time I try and ask out a girl, they play it off as if it's a joke, and when I press the issue... well, it hasn't gone well.

I have severe self-esteem issues and can't seem to find a lass. My female friends have accused me of being too boxed-in, which may be true.

I just don't know what ta do.

I'm totally pathetic for asking this, but it's the internet and I don't care. What should I do, oh Guru?

Ok, dude, I used to be you. Up until my junior year in high school, I thought I was a permanent member of "the Friend-Zone". I know it's not the nicest place to be. Your not pathetic for asking for help. It's the same as acquiring any knowledge. Some comes easier then others, and those bits of information you can't figure out for yourself, you have to get help with.

To start, as I've pointed out, the first thing we have to realize is that it's true: if we're not traditionally handsome, we're at a disadvantage. It sucks, but its a fact. The good news is, the disadvantage isn't the chasm you think it is.

On a psychological level, guys are far more married to the concept of physical attraction then girls are. That's not to say there aren't a lot of shallow girls out there, but a lot of girls are actually more concerned with guys who can provide a sense of security and safety (it's a biological fact). With that in mind, lets address your problem.

Yours is the most common problem I come across. You approach girls, you seem to be able to get along well with them, but (seemingly) inevitably, you end up the friend and not the boyfriend. But my friend, let me tell you, this can change, and the first part of that is in your confidence.

I'm not the guy who's advice is "you just have to be confident!" People used to tell me that all the time. What the hell does that even mean? It's not like there is a switch you can flip, and BAM! It's something you have to build. So here is what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you an exercise.

It's simple. You take it one step at a time until you've mastered the step, then you move on to the next one.

Step 1- find a public place. If you're old enough to go to bars, then bars are probably the best place to find women, mostly because bars have women are trying to do the same thing you are. If you're not old enough, then public parks or big shopping hubs like malls and grocery stores are good too.

Once you're there, I want you to approach a girl you're interested, and just say "hi". If the girl is weirded out, apologize, and walk away, and find someone else. Ideally, she'll say "hi" back, and you can introduce yourself, and make some small talk. The conversation shouldn't last long. Maybe a minute or two. When it slows down say, "well it was nice to meet you," you smile, and walk away. THIS IS THE HARDEST STEP. Easily. 90% of this battle is beating your shyness and your self esteem. On the first go, I want you to keep at it until at least 2 girls stop and talk to you. It's gonna be hard, but push through the uncomfortableness. On the next outing, don't stop until you talk to three girls. Try to find a time in your day when you can dedicate a half hour to this project everyday until you can walk up to a girl, and just say "hi" to her. This is half of your battle.

Step 2- You proceed much the same way you do with the first step, except I want you to move away from the small talk as quickly as you can. Don't avoid it, small talk is a nice ice breaker, and you want to use this time to find something about her to talk about. A necklace, a tattoo, a feature that she has CONTROL OVER (avoid the anything that is natural on her, like her eyes. She'll feel that you making a comment on her anatomical appearance, and for some reason, girls tend to feel like you're just trying to get into their pants) that you can inquire about. People in general like to talk about themselves. At this point, if you're at a bar, offer to buy her a drink. Try to get 5 or so good minutes of conversation with substance. Like before, when you feel the conversation starting to dry up, don't try to rejuvenate it with something else. You're asking for trouble. Be the one to end the conversation. This gives you control over the encounter (you opened up, and you closed). Try to end with something to the effect of "It was nice talking to you. Hopefully we'll run into each other again sometime." Be nice, cheerful, and hopefully by this point (since you've ideally mastered the first step), you won't be nervous.

Step 3- This is the most minor step, and it's a change in your ending. Instead of saying, "hopefully we'll run into each other..." say "I'd really like to continue this conversation, but I have to run. Maybe I could get your number, and we could continue this some other time?" There is no way she could misconstrue your meaning here. On your first time meeting this girl, you've asked for her number. She'll know that you're making a romantic inquiry. By this point in time, your confidence might not be maxed out, but you should already be not so scared of rejection.

If you follow this plan, if you allow yourself even to complete the first step, you'll be on your way to bettering your situation, but it's up to you whether or not you want to listen. The first step is always the hardest, but it's also the most crucial.

I want to add some advice to Step 1. If you want to "hack" that one, just use the "right" amount of alcohol. It's usually the phase where you lose all fear & shyness, but don't go to far(the phase where you want to break stuff and beat people). You should also be able to control yourself. This method is just there to test if this all advice works, because it really sucks if you need alcohol every time.

 

[space_oddity]

It is strange isn't it? That is why I get so damn frustrated. Or I'm looney. I design clothes and watch (and squee over) chick flicks yet I play CoD4 until the early hours of the morning and my favourite movie is the Empire Strikes Back. Ok yeah I'm nuts.

You wouldnt happen to have ever played CoD4 against a certain...Dangermouse, would you?

 

[October Country]

I would just like to say thanks for starting this thread, it's been really helpful to read the responses here. My problems basically amount to shyness/lack of confidence which I have thought about a lot lately because it has given me a lot of problems.

If you wait around and never get your intentions out there someone else will. I learned that the hard way.

 

[Tri Force95]

"Who ya gonna call?"

GHOSTBUSTERS!!!!!
Oh, sorry, wrong thread I guess.

 

[dwightsteel]

I would just like to say thanks for starting this thread, it's been really helpful to read the responses here. My problems basically amount to shyness/lack of confidence which I have thought about a lot lately because it has given me a lot of problems.

If you wait around and never get your intentions out there someone else will. I learned that the hard way.

That's absolutely true. Again, it's been posted on this thread a couple of times, I have a pretty decent exercise that helps with confidence building, but as with everything worth doing, it's not easy, and it takes time. Beating shyness, above everything else, takes motivation and perseverance. No one will do it for you, but if you can build self assurance and confidence, more opportunities will present themselves, in all facets of life.

 

[Vriggchan]

once you beat the shyness once your set for life.

 

[Gooble]

Here's a slightly different angle on things, and I doubt there will actually be a clear cut answer, but how do you know if someone likes you back?

I've been in situations, and so have several other people I know where it seems the persons involved are oblivious to someone liking them, but it's blindingly obvious to those around them. I mean in the case of liking someone in your group, or someone that someone else knows, or someone and a friend has seen you with them, you can probably ask that person whether they think the person you like likes you back or not.

But what if you're in a situation where you have no idea whether they like you, and you can't ask someone elses opinion. Apart from the straight up, 'Do you like me?'.

Also I'd like to say excellent thread, been reading through and the advice is really simple but still sounds very effective. Well done.

 

[dwightsteel]

Here's a slightly different angle on things, and I doubt there will actually be a clear cut answer, but how do you know if someone likes you back?

I've been in situations, and so have several other people I know where it seems the persons involved are oblivious to someone liking them, but it's blindingly obvious to those around them. I mean in the case of liking someone in your group, or someone that someone else knows, or someone and a friend has seen you with them, you can probably ask that person whether they think the person you like likes you back or not.

But what if you're in a situation where you have no idea whether they like you, and you can't ask someone elses opinion. Apart from the straight up, 'Do you like me?'.

Also I'd like to say excellent thread, been reading through and the advice is really simple but still sounds very effective. Well done.

When it comes to knowing when you're liked, it can be tough, especially if the person who likes you has been a friend for sometime. We don't tend to assume that our friends might be attracted to us, and thus we usually discount them. The subtle hints that other people read loud and clear, tend to go right over our heads. It's amazing the things we miss when we're not looking in the right places.

If you suspect someone is in to you, but you don't want to go with the direct route, which honestly, often doesn't turn out to good, start steering the conversation towards things that will give that person away. Mention the appearance of a person of the opposite sex in front of them. "She looks hot today, don't you think?" It's hard to hide disappoint or jealousy, especially when you catch them off guard. Ask her what kind of guy they tend to go for. Often times, they'll describe someone like you, whether they intended to or not. Be creative with your questions. Flirt, and lay it on a little thicker then usual. Chances are, if the person likes you, they're trying to let you know in some way. So give them whatever rope is necessary for them to grab onto. In the end, if they like you, you'll find out, one way or the other.

 

[BonsaiK]

All the problems in this thread, I'll cut and paste and answer in my thread, just because it never hurts to have a second opinion.

To the OP: glad you're here. More of us can't hurt. 40% of these people have never been kissed! We have work to do!

To everyone else: not sure why you didn't post these problems you've been having in the Relationship Problem Thread which has been going strong for weeks now, but hey, if it takes a new thread with exactly the same theme to get you guys talking, so be it...

Oh, and my thread is this one: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.117161