Personal Opinion on Religion (Atheist View)

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lazy_bum

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Delicious said:
True, but I think Infinity is kind of an awkward concept to apply to God as I can think of no reason as to why He would have to adhere to any of its rules. But I don't really know much about infinity, so I could be dead wrong.

And don't worry, if I didn't want my points challenged I wouldn't be posting them on an internet forum ;).
I find inifinty theories to be a little confusing myself. but one of the basic premisis as i understand is that (as far as we know) Inifinty can only ever exist in a theoretical context, such as mathematics. it defies the laws of the universe as well currently understand them, if they where proved to be workable in reality, then i'm afraid i would have to admit that your previous point would be an interesting new possibility to explore.

Good to hear. Just that i've people in the past getting really angry and annoyed when i picked holes in their theories/arguments/rants/bile etc etc.
 

Tranjurious

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My self I'm an atheist, I believe that the possibly of god or gods existing is extremly, low, so low that its not really worth thinking about; but at the same time I think that the super natural (including God/Gods,angels, demons, ghosts and so on) does exist and is simply a branch of science not yet fully explored and documented.

Also, I always try to do 'good' but not for fear of going to hell or wanting to go to heaven in the afterlife, I believe that when your dead your dead, out of existence. But with 'Good' and 'Evil' they're both really up to interpretation, most people consider the 9/11 attacks 'evil' but those that caused them consider themselves doing 'good' and the work of god.
 

Delicious

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lazy_bum said:
Delicious said:
True, but I think Infinity is kind of an awkward concept to apply to God as I can think of no reason as to why He would have to adhere to any of its rules. But I don't really know much about infinity, so I could be dead wrong.

And don't worry, if I didn't want my points challenged I wouldn't be posting them on an internet forum ;).
I find inifinty theories to be a little confusing myself. but one of the basic premisis as i understand is that (as far as we know) Inifinty can only ever exist in a theoretical context, such as mathematics. it defies the laws of the universe as well currently understand them, if they where proved to be workable in reality, then i'm afraid i would have to admit that your previous point would be an interesting new possibility to explore.

Good to hear. Just that i've people in the past getting really angry and annoyed when i picked holes in their theories/arguments/rants/bile etc etc.
In that sense God and Infinity have quite a bit in common then. Maybe understanding one is key to understanding the other?

And getting angry about that is silly, every argument has holes. If it didn't, it would be fact, and those are no fun to argue with.
 

lazy_bum

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cuddly_tomato said:
Yep. But their origins being explained really doesn't explain them away, nor does it make them any less valuble. Ever seen the film "I, Robot", the one with Will Smith? You know the decision the robot takes that makes Will Smith hate robots? To save him instead of the kid because his chances are better? That is logic, but it isn't necessarily the 'right' decision.

This is the thing - religion, to me, is ridiculous. Really. Heaven? Hell? Big demons putting pokers up your arse for all eternity? But then so is reductionist atheism. There was nothing, and then the nothing exploded, and at some point it's all going to collapse again and it's all for bugger all? Then again, I find agnostism to also be ridiculous. We are all here, on a small, spinning piece of grit orbiting an explosion, and nobody thinks that's kinda odd?

But ridiculous isn't the same as stupid. South Park is ridiculous, but it's very clever. Gordon Browns plan to stop knife crime by banning knives isn't ridiculous, but it is very stupid (people will break bottles.. duh).

So I just accept that it is all ridiculous. Life is ridiculous, my own belief systems (which are spiritual but non-theistic) are ridiculous. But I forgive myself and others for having them, whatever they are. To think that I know better than everyone else would make me extremely narcissisistic. To not question the beliefs of others would make me a mindless sheep. Allowing oneself to be a bit ridiculous and illogical is a good thing, a world where everything was based on logic would be a cold and uncompassionate place.
Unfortunatly every point is going to have its merits and pitfalls. Doesnt explain them away, was just trying to make the point that there is a pretty simple rational for how they could exist without a god is all. :)
I find I cannot help myself but question peoples views especially when religion is involved in the topic. Religion is something of a facination for me. I feel that by constantly testing other peoples ideas and views to their limits and having them do the same to me in a reasoned and calm discussion such this (bar a few total muppets) then we will constantly re-evaluate and change our thoughts/ideas/beliefs to the point when we can possibly make a reasoned stab at the answer of all of this. whatever that may be.
We shall have to see, though i sorely doubt even our great great great grandchildren will still be around when that finally happens.
 

Matronadena

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I'm Soto-Zazen Buddhist, practicing the discipline of Shikantaza, which pretty much means "just sitting". Most Buddhist paths are really more a philosophy and self discipline, if science discovers something new as to how the universe works, then that's how it is, Its about how we act and reacts as individuals and a whole with the universe, not how or why it does what it does..


Buddhism is one of the oldest surviving " beliefs" predating Christianity, and one of the largest ( if you count the various sects)

though I noticed in the west where it is booming in growth, in general there are still alot of preconceived notions as to what it is, and is not...

and trust me, Zen, and Zazen is FAAAAAAAR FAR FAR from what the hippy new-agers go on about, and spend millions on any little thing that has the word " zen" printed on it..

Shengyen Roshi described the practice as " While you are practicing just sitting, be clear about everything going on in your mind. Whatever you feel, be aware of it, but never abandon the awareness of your whole body sitting there. Shikantaza is not sitting with nothing to do; it is a very demanding practice, requiring diligence as well as alertness. If your practice goes well, you will experience the 'dropping off' of sensations and thoughts. You need to stay with it and begin to take the whole environment as your body. Whatever enters the door of your senses becomes one totality, extending from your body to the whole environment. This is silent illumination"

basically the idea is to let go of the self...to accomplish nothing with the goal of nothing, and accepting things as is.

It's tough to describe exactly what Zazen really is...other than " it just is"

now while some sects of Buddhism do keep a certain mythology behind it " mostly flakes of culture adapted depending on where one is from" Zazen is one of the sects that in large drop away from the myths, and legends...the notion of reincarnation is not really wide spread.

while it does still seek to teach the lessons of Siddhartha Gautama ( the first Buddha, and founder of the philosophy) it focuses more on the historical facts rather than the legends, and supernatural aspects that any influential person generates.though we do acknowledge them, but they are viewed as simply stories, sometimes meant to teach a lesson, but still just stories..

Now, we do follow the precepts, but they again are as guidelines, there is no condemnation if you are not perfect following it, because were human, we screw up...
Sixteen Bodhisattva Precepts..


and remember...There are many variations and understandings on what exactly these mean... it is for the individual to understand them as they will, NOT to be forced into thinking a certain way

The Three Refuges
We take refuge in Buddha
We take refuge in Dharma
We take refuge in Sangha

The Three Pure Precepts
To do no harm
To do good
To live to benefit all beings

The Ten Prohibitory Precepts
A follower of the Way does not kill but rather cultivates and encourages life. ( though I want to add, this has exceptions, such as defense, or to protect.. think of a Jedi Knight, and your on the right path)

A follower of the Way does not take what is not given but rather cultivates and encourages generosity.

A follower of the Way does not misuse sexuality but rather cultivates and encourages open, honest and acceptable relationships.

A follower of the Way does not lie but rather cultivates and encourages truthful communication.

A follower of the Way does not intoxicate self or others but rather cultivates and encourages clarity.

A follower of the Way does not slander but rather cultivates and encourages respectful speech.

A follower of the Way neither extols self nor demeans others but rather cultivates awareness of the interdependant nature of self.

A follower of the Way does not attach to anything, even the teaching, but rather cultivates mutual support and shares the dharma with all beings.

A follower of the Way does not harbor ill will but rather cultivates loving-kindness, understanding, and forgiveness.

A follower of the Way does not turn away from the Three Refuges but rather cultivates and encourages taking refuge in them.
 

Shadedblade

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BudZer said:
I read the first bit and I immediately questioned it.

Your saying that we want something to blame, that it's somehow God punishing us or something of the sort. However, in my religion we believe in free will. We're where we are because of temptation and greed in the world. God didn't do it, people did it.
No,but God allowed it, so since he/she is supposedly the one with absolute power, he/she is responsible.
 

Lukirre

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NubletInc said:
I see religion as an escape from the question why, Why do bad things happen? Why are things as they are?
I'd say that you'd want to add in "An escape from the fear of death."
 

Booze Zombie

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cuddly_tomato said:
But then so is reductionist atheism. There was nothing, and then the nothing exploded, and at some point it's all going to collapse again and it's all for bugger all?
Is that really so bad? Finish the cycle of the universe on top of our game, I mean... it sounds pretty good to me.

BudZer said:
God made free will so that we would have to test our love for him by jumping through hoops for him as we avoid Earthly temptation. This ties in with, "If God is omnipotent, why doesn't he kill Satan?"
What type of evil God makes his own creations jump through hoops just to enter into an eternity of doing nothing, for doing nothing for about 70 years? Bother that noise.
 

Danzaivar

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BudZer said:
Danzaivar said:
BudZer said:
I read the first bit and I immediately questioned it.

Your saying that we want something to blame, that it's somehow God punishing us or something of the sort. However, in my religion we believe in free will. We're where we are because of temptation and greed in the world. God didn't do it, people did it.
If you have free will, God must have given you it. For temptation and greed to exist, God must have made it. The only reason we can't appreciate something without it's opposite existing is because God would have made the Universe that way. I sometimes get the feeling people don't quite understand the full ramifications of a deity that created EVERYTHING and defined all natural/physical laws.

If you're one of the 'God isnt omnipotent' theists then fair play however.
God made free will so that we would have to test our love for him by jumping through hoops for him as we avoid Earthly temptation. This ties in with, "If God is omnipotent, why doesn't he kill Satan?"
But, why does he even need to make us 'jump through hoops'? He's God, he knows if you love him or not, he knows exactly what you'll do before you've been tested. If he already knows what you're going to do then it's just him stroking his ego. If he doesn't know then he isn't omni-potent.

There is no point in testing something you already know, unless you are demonstrating it to someone else. The only thing he could be demonstrating it to are Humans, but deep down we should all already know whether or not we have love for a God, right?

I'm not trolling btw, this sort of thing genuinely interests me.
 

Noamuth

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May 16, 2008
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My view is.. well, a bit silly, but it's simple and I do believe in it.

I don't believe in God. I believe more in the scientific views regarding how things began. But I don't think that there isn't something watching over us. Personally, I never feel completely alone. Maybe I haven't been in the right situation to feel that, but I think there may be some beings, or some forces, just sort of playing around with humanity.

.. Like I said, I feel silly whenever I say it out loud, but it's just how I feel.
 

Mokinokaro

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Mar 27, 2009
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I see religion as a coping mechanism. It's easier to deal with tragedy when you can say it was part of a plan, or caused by an evil force.

If there is a God or gods, they are not within human comprehension. We do not have a way to prove or disprove their existence so I chose to not worry about it. Maybe science will provide an answer, maybe I'll find out when I die. In the meantime I don't let it bother me.
 

NubletInc

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cuddly_tomato said:
NubletInc said:
I see religion as an escape from the question why, Why do bad things happen? Why are things as they are? The easiest answer is to believe you have no say in the matter, by believing in the higher powers to try to change things some could say you are hiding from the responsibility of your actions or lack of action.
Nope. Religion isn't an escape from the question, religion is one of many answers to the question. Besides, antitheists commit the same fallacy. They sit around telling themselves that it's the theists' fault that the world is messed up, so they THEMSELVES can do no wrong and don't have to be self-aware.

To say that atheists do not hide from responsibility, and that religious people do, is a gross generalization that doesn't apply in reality. A twat is a twat, regardless of religious views. And you can be an atheist twat or a religious twat.

Incidentally, there are around two or three threads per day made my atheists on this forum trying to preach atheism to the world. I get Jehovas witnesses knocking at my door maybe two or three times per year. From my experience, the most preachy, holier-than-thou, aggressive and ferverently fundamental group is this militant atheist group.
I like your view, and yes i guess i did make it seem as though i was saying only religious was like that sorry my bad you're right twat is twat regardless of any specifications, but i said already personal opinion, NOT pushing my views on others merely wanting replies to my views, yours is well said i like that.
 

NubletInc

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Feb 18, 2009
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Berithil said:
go to the first book of the Bible (Genisis).
no i will not read a book of unknown history to answer questions i ask. flame me for it all you want but i see no proof that book isn't fictitious. And even if i did it would bore me.
 

NubletInc

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Noamuth said:
My view is.. well, a bit silly, but it's simple and I do believe in it.

I don't believe in God. I believe more in the scientific views regarding how things began. But I don't think that there isn't something watching over us. Personally, I never feel completely alone. Maybe I haven't been in the right situation to feel that, but I think there may be some beings, or some forces, just sort of playing around with humanity.

.. Like I said, I feel silly whenever I say it out loud, but it's just how I feel.
that makes you agnostic you believe in a higher power without accepting "god" very popular religion. (i think its agnostic not 100%)
 

Noamuth

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NubletInc said:
Noamuth said:
My view is.. well, a bit silly, but it's simple and I do believe in it.

I don't believe in God. I believe more in the scientific views regarding how things began. But I don't think that there isn't something watching over us. Personally, I never feel completely alone. Maybe I haven't been in the right situation to feel that, but I think there may be some beings, or some forces, just sort of playing around with humanity.

.. Like I said, I feel silly whenever I say it out loud, but it's just how I feel.
that makes you agnostic you believe in a higher power without accepting "god" very popular religion. (i think its agnostic not 100%)
.. Rightio. Didn't know that.
 

NubletInc

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Feb 18, 2009
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This thread to clarify is not to push my views on you but merely make you wonder if you answer these questions yourself you may even strengthen your faith good for you. but i leave you to answer as you will.