Plot holes in "Avatar"

[TotallyFake]

-snip-
Now a question of my own that's not quite a plot hole either. Why do the mech things need knives?

Mainly as a plot device, but logically it would be a good idea to have a bayonet because if the enemy creature (Na'vi or otherwise) gets very close, or the fight goes on until they run out of ammo, a knife on the end of your gun is more fun and less risky than punching them.

Fridge logic of my own: Why do all of the land creatures (I'm not sure about the flying creatures) have six limbs, and most have a tail, while the Na'vi only have four?

The flying birds are hexapods as well, 2 sets of wings + legs. And most breath through the side of their necks, like gills.

The reason the Na'Vi are humanoid are because people would get freaked out and not be able to emotionally connect to something too alien. You can test this: Open up Spore Creature Creator and muck around creating some monstrosity. As soon as you give it a face you can read it's emotions, until then, nothing.

I kinda wish Cameron had the balls to make them non-humanoid. Heck, a extra pair of arms would suffice, and neck-noses wouldn't look too alien.

 

[big guy's wife]

One point about "betraying humans". This was not an army out to fight a war for their country. All soldiers were mercenary, hired by the corporation to clear the population, under what they were told would be through negotiations and diplomacy. The main character aligned as much with the scientists as with the native populations.

 

[big guy's wife]

I could not understand the concept of time versus travel. At the beginning of the movie, weren't most of the travelers in deep sleep? How long did the journey take? I thought it was one of those "sleep for years" trips, but the head of the corporation says that they must clear the area to start mining because they had months to show a profit? Who would know on earth? How would these stockholders find out when they would mine? How soon could they get this "mined unobtainable unobtainium" back to earth? If it would take a hundred years to get the mineral back to earth, who would care? This is playing like a circle in my mind.......

 

[bathlarper]

I think it says close to the beginning that it was a 6 year journey to Pandora and that the Avatars were grown during the trip with some sort of accelerated growth proccess.

Its still a good plot hole though well done for spotting it

 

[1gremlyn1]

Still, its a 12 year round trip, so i wouldn't have thought that a couple of months would make much difference. Maybe they developed a way of transferring data faster than the spaceships can travel. Actually, that would also mean that there would be very little delay when the scientists were using the avatars.

 

[Canid117]

Not really a plot hole but.

Spoiler

I have to wonder why the humans didn't unplug Jake and Dr. Augustine during the fight over the Home-tree immediately after it became clear they weren't helping. Obviously Cameron wanted the characters to be there from a story perspective but it doesn't really make sense for Colonel Badass to not ring up the base have them removed from the avatar pods.

They did but the protagonists broke out and stole some of the Avatar controller units. Did you go to the bathroom when this happened? (Wouldn't be surprising with the runtime)

Not the second big fight when Jake hid the pods, I mean the first one where the dragon and some whirly birds just drop by to firebomb the Na'vi's tree.

Remember Norm hit the dude in the face... And they were thrown in a cell... And then Michelle Rodriguez broke em out and they stole the "Whirly bird"... And then they stole the control pod?

 

[Canid117]

I could not understand the concept of time versus travel. At the beginning of the movie, weren't most of the travelers in deep sleep? How long did the journey take? I thought it was one of those "sleep for years" trips, but the head of the corporation says that they must clear the area to start mining because they had months to show a profit? Who would know on earth? How would these stockholders find out when they would mine? How soon could they get this "mined unobtainable unobtainium" back to earth? If it would take a hundred years to get the mineral back to earth, who would care? This is playing like a circle in my mind.......

They say "you have been asleep for five years and (Cant remember the number) months..."

And he had three months to get the Navi to move before the bulldozers showed up not before they had to show a profit

 

[Logic 0]

I got a question, at the end of the movie what happened to norm and the other guy who were allowed to stay?

Because Norm's avatar was destroyed and I don't think the other guy had a avatar so they couldn't get transplanted into them and a avatar is pretty hard to make so I don't think they had a spare.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

So I went to the theater yesterday and saw Avatar in 3d. It was pretty good. Today, I was reflecting on the movie a little when I realized there was something odd. I shall recount the scenes in which this plot hole occurs.

WARNING, SPOILERS

Hole #1 (my friend actually pointed this one out): In the beginning scene where Jake first takes control of the avatar, he comes across numerous other avatars (the ones playing basketball, numerous others you see scattered about). These ones are never seen in the movie again. Who's avatars are they and what purpose do they serve?

Hole #2: During the final battle, we see that the avatar of Norm (the other scientist guy) is killed. Norm emerges from his pod, perfectly fine but visibly shaken. Later, once the main bad guy dies, Jake's real body ends up on the ground outside his pod, struggling for air. Na'vi princess lady comes in and everythings fine.

END SPOILERS

#1: Ok, so it's not really a plot hole, but it's still interesting to point out. There seems to be no purpose for them to be there.

#2: So, where did Norm go? Did he just wander off into the jungle? Surely he would have gone to help his friend Jake, who was struggling for breath on the floor of the mobile outpost. We see him again later at the end, but where did he go?

Did anyone else catch these? Or am I just wrong and missed something that would explain this?

It seems like other people have plugged these two holes pretty well, and I just thought I'd preemptively fill in another one: why, if the humans wanted unobtainium so much, they didn't just mine it from the floating mountains (which float because they're full of it, and which are seemingly uninhabited by the Na'vi). I'm betting they don't do that for the same reason a mechanic wouldn't try to remove the engine from an airplane while it's flying.

EDIT: Oh, also, was Norm's avatar killed or just wounded? My friends both thought it was wounded, and the shock was what caused him to "wake up"...

 

[Gmano]

So I went to the theater yesterday and saw Avatar in 3d. It was pretty good. Today, I was reflecting on the movie a little when I realized there was something odd. I shall recount the scenes in which this plot hole occurs.

WARNING, SPOILERS

Hole #1 (my friend actually pointed this one out): In the beginning scene where Jake first takes control of the avatar, he comes across numerous other avatars (the ones playing basketball, numerous others you see scattered about). These ones are never seen in the movie again. Who's avatars are they and what purpose do they serve?

Hole #2: During the final battle, we see that the avatar of Norm (the other scientist guy) is killed. Norm emerges from his pod, perfectly fine but visibly shaken. Later, once the main bad guy dies, Jake's real body ends up on the ground outside his pod, struggling for air. Na'vi princess lady comes in and everythings fine.

END SPOILERS

#1: Ok, so it's not really a plot hole, but it's still interesting to point out. There seems to be no purpose for them to be there.

#2: So, where did Norm go? Did he just wander off into the jungle? Surely he would have gone to help his friend Jake, who was struggling for breath on the floor of the mobile outpost. We see him again later at the end, but where did he go?

Did anyone else catch these? Or am I just wrong and missed something that would explain this?

1: The other avatars are all scientists, thus they would not have been involved in the fighting, and since they were not one of the 2 permitted to enter the village they would have not been a part of the rest of the movie. Not a plot hole, just done to point out that jake is not a special person with a magical ability, simply the only one who is not a biologist.

2:Jake cannot use his legs, norm was able to stand up and put on a mask. Jake, being paralysed,could not put on a mask and was forced to breath the toxic air or pandora.

 

[Gmano]

I could not understand the concept of time versus travel. At the beginning of the movie, weren't most of the travelers in deep sleep? How long did the journey take? I thought it was one of those "sleep for years" trips, but the head of the corporation says that they must clear the area to start mining because they had months to show a profit? Who would know on earth? How would these stockholders find out when they would mine? How soon could they get this "mined unobtainable unobtainium" back to earth? If it would take a hundred years to get the mineral back to earth, who would care? This is playing like a circle in my mind.......

They say "you have been asleep for five years and (Cant remember the number) months..."

And he had three months to get the Navi to move before the bulldozers showed up not before they had to show a profit

One has to assume that they can communicate at lightspeed (and/or instantaneously) and the ships cannot (thus they take a long time to travel)

 

[CuddlyCombine]

Hole #1 (my friend actually pointed this one out): In the beginning scene where Jake first takes control of the avatar, he comes across numerous other avatars (the ones playing basketball, numerous others you see scattered about). These ones are never seen in the movie again. Who's avatars are they and what purpose do they serve?

How is that a hole? Cameron doesn't have to explain every single fucking leaf on the trees for the movie to be complete. We can safely assume that the other hybrids are being piloted by researchers in the other pods/in different stations (given that the narrative gives the impression that there are a few piloting stations). We never see them again, but, then again, Jake only spends one day in that camp. The rest of the time he's only seen with the Na'vi tribe. Their purpose was probably similar to his.

Hole #2: During the final battle, we see that the avatar of Norm (the other scientist guy) is killed. Norm emerges from his pod, perfectly fine but visibly shaken. Later, once the main bad guy dies, Jake's real body ends up on the ground outside his pod, struggling for air. Na'vi princess lady comes in and everythings fine.

Norm is ejected from his pod, has a minor heart attack or something, and then picks up a gun and goes to fight. We don't know where he ends up, but he's likely quite far away from the 'trailer' when the AMP and Jake are fighting.

I guess this is sort of useless, given that people have explained it to you time and time again. However, excess is fun.

 

[Gmano]

MY problem with the movie was what happens to the avatars when they're uninhabited? They would need to be alive to continue breathing and such without a consciousness in them, but in order to keep the heart beating and such there would have to be brainwaves which means that it would have to be alive and have some form of consciousness, and if not, then it would stop breathing and essentially be dead and start to rot. So since there must be life in it, then you're essentially either sharing, mind-controlling, or elbowing out another consciousness. It's complicated but makes sense if you think about it.

There are different levels of conciousness.

They pass out when a human is not controlling them. The human controlling them is ejected if they pass out. This suggests to me that the avatars still posses subconscious functions, but humans take over the concious ones.

I think it is the same concept as a headless chicken... They act solely on their brainstems, (which control the heart and lungs) without a consciousness or any other nerve functions.

 

[greywolfsage]

Hole #1 (my friend actually pointed this one out): In the beginning scene where Jake first takes control of the avatar, he comes across numerous other avatars (the ones playing basketball, numerous others you see scattered about). These ones are never seen in the movie again. Who's avatars are they and what purpose do they serve?

Hole #2: During the final battle, we see that the avatar of Norm (the other scientist guy) is killed. Norm emerges from his pod, perfectly fine but visibly shaken. Later, once the main bad guy dies, Jake's real body ends up on the ground outside his pod, struggling for air. Na'vi princess lady comes in and everythings fine.

#1 There are always researchers but are fairly useless to the true desire of the program. They were all rejected by the Na'vi and aren't important to the plot line.

#2 When Norm is disconnected from his Avatar, the pod is still intact. He is "killed" long before Jake has trouble. He's seen later trekking through the jungle chatting on the throat communicator. Jake is struggling for air because Commander Baldy punched the window and broke the seal, venting the atmosphere, which causes Jake's body to asphyxiate.


And honestly, this is like on the level of save the rainforest debates, but it's truly a moral dillema. But it's not something traitorous, the entire operation was a MINING one. Something of rediculous value to the economy, but it's value is based in greed. Not survival. It wasn't farmland, it wasn't logging, it wasn't water.... none of the basics.

And why NOT have knives? Besides, its quite common to have machetes in that enviornment, I think in their first foray out someone was hacking with one, actually.

 

[Zakini]

I think it's pretty clear now that the initial point about the 'plotholes' is cleared up now. I find the idea of betraying your own species much more interesting

"The humans returned to their dying world" is something Jake says towards the end of the film. Considering this and the lengths the humans go to to obtain unobtainium [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium] (which by the way is any substance that is perfect for the job but is unfeasibly hard to get), they really need this stuff. Their planet is dying and unobtainium is their last shot at survival. But isn't their impending doom due to their lifestyle? They destroy and they consume, you can see that when they march towards Hometree. They are completely out of touch with their surroundings.

The Na'vi on the other hand live perfectly harmoniously with their environment, just look at how pissed Neytiri is when she saves Jake by killing the things coming after him. Jake's ignorant, "child-like", human behaviour causes the unnecessary deaths of living things. The Na'vi are an example to the Humans. They need to find their place in their world like the Na'vi have. Even if they had beaten the Na'vi and had access to all the unobtainium they wanted, it would have run out eventually and then what? Find another world?

This is blatantly pointing at us modern day humans. How long have we been told by the scientists to live in a more sustainable way? How often do you hear about the more harmonious tribal humans causing environmental problems? How often do those tribal people get in the way of the corporations seeking their 'unobtainium'?

If you could choose between the resource-hungry, self-destructive humans and the harmonious, sustainable Na'vi, would you really stay human? Out of pure zealous patriotism?

For those of you who have endured to the end, I congratulate you and wish you a merry christmas

 

[Heathrow]

Spoiler

Not really a plot hole but.

Spoiler

I have to wonder why the humans didn't unplug Jake and Dr. Augustine during the fight over the Home-tree immediately after it became clear they weren't helping. Obviously Cameron wanted the characters to be there from a story perspective but it doesn't really make sense for Colonel Badass to not ring up the base have them removed from the avatar pods.

They did but the protagonists broke out and stole some of the Avatar controller units. Did you go to the bathroom when this happened? (Wouldn't be surprising with the runtime)

Not the second big fight when Jake hid the pods, I mean the first one where the dragon and some whirly birds just drop by to firebomb the Na'vi's tree.

Remember Norm hit the dude in the face... And they were thrown in a cell... And then Michelle Rodriguez broke em out and they stole the "Whirly bird"... And then they stole the control pod?

Yes, they do that after the fight not during it. Did you even read the post?