Poll: 9/11 and you.

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TilMorrow

Diabolical Party Member
Jul 7, 2010
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That Guy Who Phails said:
Am I the only one who wonders why there was no wing marks or plane parts on the crash site on the pentagon?

[small]Missle[/small]
It all makes sense noaw! It was two missiles disguised as airplanes :O.

OT: It doesn't make much sense for the US government to attack their own country. Unless they wanted to collect on insurance! Sneaky Buggers... Not so sneaky now. Anyone know a place where I can lie low for awhile?
 

DSK-

New member
May 13, 2010
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That Guy Who Phails said:
Am I the only one who wonders why there was no wing marks or plane parts on the crash site on the pentagon?

[small]Missle[/small]
There is actually a flash animation about this very subject. I wonder if I can find it...

Ahh here we go. Make of it what you will.

[link]http://dagobah.net/flash/pentagon121.swf[/link]
 

Diligent

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Dec 20, 2009
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That Guy Who Phails said:
Arachon said:
That Guy Who Phails said:
Am I the only one who wonders why there was no wing marks or plane parts on the crash site on the pentagon?

[small]Missle[/small]


I apologize for the size of the second one...

Explain that.
That doesn't look like anything that needs explaining to me. Notice how all the pictures that show evidence of what happened have clear photographs of plane debris?
And the conspiracy theory photos are low resolution, pointing out supposed things clouded by smoke, and masked over by the shape of a plane overlay...as if that is proof enough. You can see fires on the right hand side of the "plane" in that photo while it simultaneously claims that the black circle is the only point of damage.
This is just another example of people making shit up and wanting to see things where they are not.
 

guntotingtomcat

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Jun 29, 2010
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I'd say they received warning but didn't take it seriously. I find it hard to swallow that the US government orchestrated it, though.
 

omicron1

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Mar 26, 2008
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Really?

Now, there's approximately four ways you can go on this - keeping in mind that the actual event has been researched and investigated to such a degree by so many sources that we can be pretty much certain we know what happened.

Option 1. Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the WTC. The US had no foreknowledge of the events in question.
Option 2. Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the WTC. The US had some idea something like this might happen, but did not have the knowledge necessary to stop or even deter the attack.
Option 3. Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the WTC. The US knew perfectly well what was going on and failed to stop them.
Option 4. Crazy conspiracy theories about how the US killed thousands of its civilians in search of an excuse to go raid Iraq for cheaper oil.

Option 4 is right out. Seriously, it's not really even worth discussing.

Of options 1-3, none of them is particularly damaging to the US. Either the US didn't know the attacks were coming (which I think is probably likely in a general sense), or the US tried and failed to stop the attacks (Which might have happened - it's not always Jack Bauer saves the day at the last minute, y'know).

In the former case, the US is every bit the victim, and if they left some information out of the public reports (for instance, exactly what their analysts told them about the possibility of terrorist attacks) it's likely for the sake of security rather than as a coverup.
In the latter case, the US is still a victim, but also an unsuccessful hero. This is where "embarrassment" might come into the picture. Again, any information the US is holding back is likely not any form of coverup, but is probably to protect the identities of their secret agents.

So the only conclusion I can reasonably draw is, either the US was honest (which I think was the most likely series of events) or what they held back was not held back for the purposes of deception, but for the purpose of protecting the people involved.
 

RanD00M

New member
Oct 26, 2008
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Do I believe that 9/11 was an inside job? No, that's quite ridiculous.
Do I believe that the U.S. government is holding some information of the attack and its aftermath away from the public? You bet your ass that I do.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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Ekonk said:
So I was wondering - considering all the conspiracy theories concerning the 9/11 attacks, ranging from the plausible to the downright ridiculous, and a 2006 poll I read about a while ago that states that a third of American citizens believes that the American government isn't entirely open about 9/11 and their actions therein - what do you Escapists think about 9/11?
I think that the US goverment is open about the attacks themselves (which is why I voted support of the US side of events), the issues of them holding back information being true, but in connection to what happened afterwards.

I feel that a lot of the issues over this, both domestically and internationally, are simply because wars, especially long wars, are never popular. It's much easier to oppose an unjust war, if you can convince yourself of it, than a just one, when you just want it to end.

The bottom line is that we're locked into this ongoing "winning the peace" quagmire that could last decades more, if it even succeeds (and it probably won't). Nobody wants to put the blood on their hands to end the situation (as I talk about), and people pretty much just want to it to be over with even if that means pulling out, and facing repercussions down the road for it. Immediate gratification of a sort.

The international community also doesn't like the simple fact that they have to deal with upset Muslims, and of course the whole war hampers their trade.

In looking at the conspiricy theories, you have to look at who benefits from the accusations of the basic war being an unjust one, when you look at things from that perspective, it's pretty obvious your not dealing with impartial truth seekers. People WANT to believe these things to end the war, which means that I think people are becoming less and less critical of accusations made against it.

Now, after the 9/11 attacks you CAN make a lot of criticisms of how the war has been being fought. See, one of the reasons why we got involved in this whole "winning the peace" thing was because it let the goverment pass out rebuilding contracts for projects in the region. Guys like Bush and Cheney handed them out (along with security and contracts and the like) to their buddies in exchange for kickbacks. I'm not totally Anti-Bush (unlike many people here) but I do feel once the war got going he himself derailed it for money. I do not however believe that the war was started for those reasons or anything so stupid as "avenging his daddy" or taking control of the oil. Heck, I'd actually feel BETTER if we annexed a few oil fields in the region at gunpoint and claimed them as payment for our time and trouble (and to recoup all the money we've been spending).
 

guntotingtomcat

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Jun 29, 2010
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Dana22 said:
brainless_fps_player said:
I'd say they received warning but didn't take it seriously.
Well thats a well known fact, no mystery here.
Really?! Didn't know. Doesn't surprise me, though. Intelligence blunders are frustratingly common. This one just happened to be costly.
 

randomsix

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Apr 20, 2009
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I blame the Jews because they pretty much made Abrahamic religion popular. The attacks were done in the name of Islam, which is an Abrahamic religion.

I blame England and France because their actions after WWI are the main reason the Middle East is so unstable.

I blame America because it just made itself such a good target by being wealthy and complacent.

I blame the prophet Mohammad because his words could be interpreted in such a way that they justified the attacks.

I could certainly go on. I'm in one of my determinist moods, so everything is responsible for everything and nothing. I tend to get depressed and ramble...
 

Plazmatic

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May 4, 2009
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Ekonk said:
Mackheath said:
I couldn't give a shit. It didn't happen to me and it had no impact on me, so why should I care?
Because it's like the assassination of Franz Ferdinand if Franz Ferdinand had been two large buildings and Gavrilo Princip was two hijacked planes. Because it singlehandedly shaped the entire fucking century to come. You should care.
Don't try to rationalize with him, he probably still thinks that Germany started world war 1
 

CaptainKoala

Elite Member
May 23, 2010
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I think is was radical Islamists. All the 'proof' offered by the people who think it was someone else is either easily explained or complete BS.
 

CaptainKoala

Elite Member
May 23, 2010
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And yes, when something THIS huge happens to a superpower like America. OF COURSE there are some things about it that they are keeping top secret. Either because they're embarrassing, or vital pieces of intelligence for the war. (Or both)
 

CaptainKoala

Elite Member
May 23, 2010
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Casual Shinji said:
That Guy Who Phails said:
Am I the only one who wonders why there was no wing marks or plane parts on the crash site on the pentagon?

[small]Missle[/small]
When planes crash through buildings, they tend to shatter.

You didn't see any giant airplane wings lying in the streets of New York either, right?
When you have an object flying THAT fast, and jet fuel burning THAT hot, and the fact that the whole WTC collapsed on top of the wings, do you think there would be much left?
 

CaptainKoala

Elite Member
May 23, 2010
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That Guy Who Phails said:
Arachon said:
That Guy Who Phails said:
Am I the only one who wonders why there was no wing marks or plane parts on the crash site on the pentagon?

[small]Missle[/small]


I apologize for the size of the second one...

Explain that.
Thats just a picture of some rubble with a red watermark over it? How are we supposed to know that thats where the plane ACTUALLY hit? Because there happens to be a hold there? I call bullshit. One hole in the rubble doesn't show where the plane hit.
 

gl1koz3

New member
May 24, 2010
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I thought it looked quite cool over the TV. Until I got to know people are trapped there.

And there's certainly something sketchy. Even the fact the planes got as far as they did. Normally you'd bomb the shit out of them before they reach major cities, so why wasn't the planes at least disabled/damaged, so that the people have a little chance to land... at least somewhere... but not the firggen NY, LOL!
 

Burningsok

New member
Jul 23, 2009
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Do I think the government had a hand in the attacks, no most likely not. Do I think the government could have done more to at least warn us something isn't right, and maybe half the total amount of deaths, yes.

I do have to say though that the conspiracy side saying that our government had a hand in this does have some decent points, but it's just a bit to unlikely.