Poll: Firearms F.A.Q. IRL Edition (read first post if you are entering thread for the first time)

[Stickyreiss]

I was thinking of getting a .45 ACP handgun sometime in the near future. Any recommendations? I was talking to a guy from the NRA and he said get a Springfield but I was looking at a Kimber Ultra Carry II and it looks too damn sexy. I also heard SIGs are pretty good too.

Mainly, I want something with stopping power, but compact enough that it won't gouge into me too much when I get my conceal & carry permit, not like I'll be carrying that much anyways. It'll pretty much be a range gun.


And also, how many rounds should I fire before a gun is considered "broken in" in your experience? I have heard anywhere from 500-1000 rounds.

it varies from gun to gun, ask the person you are buying from, or refer to the manual/contact the manufacturer.
for concealed carry, I would recommend 9mm, .45 weapons tend to be too large to effectively conceal. In any case, find something you are extremely comfortable with, and practice regularly, some pistols have manufacturer made or certified conversion kits so you can practice with .22LR to save money. (don't buy one that isn't manufacturer certified)
and don't stuff the gun in your pants or pocket like a gangbanger, get a proper holster if you are going to carry. for particular makes, I recommend compact Sig or Glock. 1911 models are more complex to carry (the safety system to carry with a round chambered is much more complex than other pistols)

 

[Wicky_42]

*anti-gun argument quote snip*
...when you look at the us as a whole yes, the violent crime rates are high. HOWEVER, when you look at each individual state the situation becomes much different. funnily enough the states with the MOST RESTRICTIVE gun laws also usually happen to have the HIGHEST violent crime rates, where states with more lax gun laws typically have LOWER violent crime rates.

also, when you factor in prosecution of gun crimes (aka, illegal gun ownership), those states that prosecute violators of such crimes again have lower crime rates. as an example, virginia, a state with only 16 million residents, had more prosecutions in 2002 for people found with illegal weapons than california, pennsylvania, new york, illionis and washington dc COMBINED, despite those states having a population of over 100 million combined. another fact is that in washington dc2002, out of over 2000 illegal gun owners arrested, only 2 were actually prosecuted.

and heres some more facts. despite america having a higher violent crime rate countries with restrictive gun laws, those same countries typically have higher petty crime rates (home burglary, robbery, muggings, etc) than the us. also, germany, which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, has had 3 times more school shootings resulting in 5 times more deaths than the us has.

...

finally, how would the ordinary citizen NOT be able to effectively defend themselves against those threatening them with guns? do you know women who are in a threatening situation have a significantly higher chance of escaping unharmed if they even pull out a gun, let alone use it? the statistics are there, people CAN effectively defend themselves with guns, and MOST OF THE TIME they can do so without ever firing it.

1. So states with high rates of violent crime have the most restrictive gun laws? Which do you think came first here - the criminals or the law? Perhaps - just maybe - the laws are part of an attempt to crack down on violent, gun related crime? Just throwing that out there as you seem to be implying that laws against guns make people violent :/

2. Prosecuting criminals lowers crime rates?! Wow, you should let the police know! Not a lot to do with gun restrictions, much more to do with crummy policing. Plus, of course, those facts are not related accurately - you compare prosecutions to population without stating gun ownership and crime figures. That's distorted statistic-ing there.

3. You like the idea of higher violent crime as a pay-off against petty crime?! Jesus, that's practically the entire argument of the anti-gun lobby, surely - that ownership and availability of guns can very easily escalate petty crimes into serious ones! And you seem to think that that's a good thing -_-U

4. If you're being threatened with a gun, drawing your own is, imo, FAR more likely to result in someone getting hurt than just backing down and letting the police handle it. Loosing your life over a mugging's not worth you wallet or phone.

 

[Stickyreiss]

You know much about lever action rifles? I have fired a few different kinds, Winchester 30/30 (don't remember the model) and a Marlin 444, I liked them both a lot. I'm looking to buy a lever action rifle to replace my old bolt action hunting rifle, you have any suggestions?

Edit: Also, the debate over whether America should ban guns or not is moot. We are allowed to own guns, it will probably always be that way, and you won't be able to sway the opposing view to your side. It's like arguing which is better, cake or pie.

lever actions are awesome, with many models, they are interchangeable with rifle and pistol ammo, IIRC .45-70 and .44 magnum.

Where'd you get your Anaconda? I thought they quit production of them in 1995.

Tis a beautiful gun, that.

www.gunbroker.com

 

[The Red Spy]

I can only begin to think what this tool would have thought of this thread, before his little game [http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2000-04.html].

 

[Sh0ckFyre]

Oh, yes, check out this video.


dual wielding: you're doing it right.

I know he's inaccurate, but would you stand anywhere in front of him?

That is some Rambo shit. Awesome.

I'd say though, I've still got a thing for the old Lee-Enfields. It's the gun my mom taught me to shoot with.

How that guy didn't collapse under the weight of firing two M249 SAWs is mind boggling.

If I wanted to own a gun, I would want a sub-machine gun. Small, compact, automatic. Gets the job done during a home invasion.

 

[Stickyreiss]

4. If you're being threatened with a gun, drawing your own is, imo, FAR more likely to result in someone getting hurt than just backing down and letting the police handle it. Loosing your life over a mugging's not worth you wallet or phone.

not really concerned with the rest, but if the criminal gets the drop on you. you're screwed. hand over what he wants. If you are aware of of your surroundings (not paranoid) you can prevent the situation in the majority of the time.

 

[Stickyreiss]

I can only begin to think what this tool would have thought of this thread, before his little game [http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2000-04.html].

morons like this are a big part of the reason people are afraid of guns.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Also, why are surpressors such a pain in the ass to get in America?

I'm wondering more what kind of non-criminal reason could exist for someone to want to own a suppressor.

"Because it would be cool" is not a valid response.

Because its easier to use in semi residential areas. My house we have a 60 ft hill that we fire into (no houses behind it either) but we do have neighbors on either side so anything to lesson noise makes for happy neighbors.

Plus the because its cool argument does have some merrit. Why do you need an air dam on your car, or cooling ducts to your breaks. No legal reason to have them. They are just pretty sweet.

 

[UltraParanoia]

BASIC FIREARM SAFETY
always, always, always, follow these when handling a firearm, they are not toys.

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.
4. ALWAYS know what is behind your target, you do NOT know if your target will stop the bullet, and an over-penetration can lead to terrible results.
5. NEVER hand someone a loaded gun, do NOT assume they know these rules.
_________________________________________________________________________
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I follow a similar set of rules:

Spoiler: Jeff Coopers 4 Rules of Gun safety

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

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RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it; e.g., "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.

All guns are always loaded - period!

This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"

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RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)

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Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.

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RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.

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Also, do you know if the KBP you posted is imported to the US?
http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/sphu/hunt/mts255.htm

 

[Stickyreiss]

If I wanted to own a gun, I would want a sub-machine gun. Small, compact, automatic. Gets the job done during a home invasion.

SMGs are pretty uncontrollable, and overkill in a domestic setting, think about over-penetration, get a pump action shotgun load the first shell with rock salt and the rest with 00 buck, first shot to tell them to GTFO, if it doesn't work, then you can put a stop to the situation.

 

[Stickyreiss]

Also, do you know if the KBP you posted is imported to the US?
http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/sphu/hunt/mts255.htm

I dunno, but they go for about $3000 USD

 

[Jive_pimp]

Is it cheaper to load your own bullets as opposed to buying them fruwom a store? What would the initial and on going costs be like? A box of 20 bullets for my brothers .300 win mag costs 30 to 40 dollars, so he was thinking if getting into self loading.

 

[Tdc2182]

While in bullet time, do I get unlimited ammo?

 

[Stickyreiss]

Is it cheaper to load your own bullets as opposed to buying them fruwom a store? What would the initial and on going costs be like? A box of 20 bullets for my brothers .300 win mag costs 30 to 40 dollars, so he was thinking if getting into self loading.

http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aa010321a.htm
self loading has a steep startup cost, but saves you money in the long run, make sure you research the reloading press thoroughly to make sure there aren't any surprises or hidden costs.
also make damn sure you know the amount of propellant you put in.
pic is what happed after someone double charged their ammunition

yes it's the same kind of colt anaconda, but it is not mine

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Also, why are surpressors such a pain in the ass to get in America?

I'm wondering more what kind of non-criminal reason could exist for someone to want to own a suppressor.

"Because it would be cool" is not a valid response.

Because its easier to use in semi residential areas. My house we have a 60 ft hill that we fire into (no houses behind it either) but we do have neighbors on either side so anything to lesson noise makes for happy neighbors.

Plus the because its cool argument does have some merrit. Why do you need an air dam on your car, or cooling ducts to your breaks. No legal reason to have them. They are just pretty sweet.

I've been reading up on this myself and I do concede you have a valid point (on the first half, at least). However, you do have to admit that, were a criminal to get his/her hands on a suppressor, there could be severe problems.

 

[Spike815]

also, germany, which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, has had 3 times more school shootings resulting in 5 times more deaths than the us has.

3. You like the idea of higher violent crime as a pay-off against petty crime?! Jesus, that's practically the entire argument of the anti-gun lobby, surely - that ownership and availability of guns can very easily escalate petty crimes into serious ones! And you seem to think that that's a good thing -_-U

School shootings are a petty crime now?

And for all the "just let the police handle it" people, in the UK most cops don't even carry guns. So if one crazy guy with a gun shows up there isn't going to be ANYONE to stop him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6YXqhhLKnQ shows just how useless police are without a gun, or at least a tazer. Gun control is really out of hand when they won't even allow the police to use one.

 

[sneakypenguin]

snip However, you do have to admit that, were a criminal to get his/her hands on a suppressor, there could be severe problems.

Where would a criminal use one to his advantage though. (other than some sort of assassination style murder.)and why would a crimimal pay 550-1600 bucks here [http://www.impactguns.com/store/glock19_suppressors.htm] for a threaded barrel and silencer, then seek out sub sonic ammo?

 

[Stickyreiss]

also, germany, which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, has had 3 times more school shootings resulting in 5 times more deaths than the us has.

3. You like the idea of higher violent crime as a pay-off against petty crime?! Jesus, that's practically the entire argument of the anti-gun lobby, surely - that ownership and availability of guns can very easily escalate petty crimes into serious ones! And you seem to think that that's a good thing -_-U

School shootings are a petty crime now?

And for all the "just let the police handle it" people, in the UK most cops don't even carry guns. So if one crazy guy with a gun shows up there isn't going to be ANYONE to stop him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6YXqhhLKnQ shows just how useless police are without a gun, or at least a tazer. Gun control is really out of hand when they won't even allow the police to use one.

England's gun laws: batshit insane

A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty". Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday ? after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year. In a statement read out in court, Mr. Clarke said: "I didn't think for one moment I would be arrested. "I thought it was my duty to hand it in and get it off the streets." Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge ? therefore Mr. Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant. Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defense in law against it, he added. (This is Surrey Today)

"Ex-soldier faces jail for handing in gun." Surrey news, Jobs, Cars, Property, What's on | This is Surrey Today. Web. 04 Dec. 2009. <http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html>.

 

[Pilot Bush]

i know fuck-all about guns...as in I know all things gun-related