Poll: 'Heavier' music,can it last?

Recommended Videos

searanox

New member
Sep 22, 2008
864
0
0
Metal will always exist, but the bands that you've cited, this post-hardcore/metalcore trash, is what's killing the genre. I was excited to see the metal section in my local record store was growing, but then destroyed when I found that the vast majority of what they were selling was this modern Dillinger Escape Plan-derived fodder. Sure, they still cater to some niches, but bands like Avenged Sevenfold are selling seventyfold times the albums bands with far, far more artistic integrity and musical talent are, and it's disgusting.

Metalcore and its offshoots are a trend today, which I think is starting to dwindle as pop music comes back into the mainstream (nu metal was very popular a few years ago but I think is nearing death right now). It seems like every time I meet a "metal" fan, turns out that it's just some slobbering teenage whackoff who wouldn't know good music if it hit him in the side of the head with a sledgehammer (as it should in many cases), and is too busy beating off over how "heavy" the stuff is, the novelty of it all. What frightens me the most is that this new generation who are born in and raised on crap will be producing music with that influence in mind. It tarnishes the names of all the amazing metal bands out there, across the whole spectrum of genres.

Also, some of my opinions on individual bands as mentioned in this thread.

Cradle of Filth are complete fucking shit, pop-goth masturbation of the highest order. They have nothing to do with black metal and everything to do with Marilyn Manson. Dimmu Borgir has more integrity and are much more listenable, but they're still pretty much trash outside of one or two albums.

I don't understand why Fear Factory are still alive. The band hasn't made a good album since ever, and even their best stuff is only "best" relative to the rest of the shit they've produced. They're still quite popular, despite that. Ugh.

Opeth have become very mainstream these days, which is good because they're one of the few bands in the progressive metal scene that has some sort of lasting integrity. Unfortunately, most of the new fans listening to it only do so for the novelty that comes out of the "oh my god did he just growl, I think he did, you can't do that, there were acoustic guitars like five seconds ago" sensation upon first hearing such a style of music. Opeth are the most well-known and accessible band to play extreme metal combined with acoustics, but nowhere near the best, and the fans of the band need to look past them a little. I have nothing against the band and I love Mikael, but the listeners tend to be pompous shits who gobble up whatever they put out, without critique or judgment.

Metallica started sucking after Ride the Lightning. Period. They fucking blow, end of discussion. There are a billion thrash metal bands who beat the living shit out of them. They're a bunch of fucking hicks and hacks riding on twenty-year-old praise and money they don't even understand the origin of. The typical Metallica fan can be easily identified by asking said fan what other bands aside from Metallica he or she listens to: the response will invariably be "uuhhhmmm..."

Slayer are okay, but haven't made anything good in twenty years. As a thrash band they have far more integrity then Metallica, and I recognise their influences on bands like Morbid Angel, who went on to solidify the death metal movement in its early days. However, every single cover of a Slayer song I've ever heard has been better than the original.

Strapping Young Lad is... well, alright. I mean, it's not bad music, though a tad repetitive. What annoys me is more the image around the music; the band has this whole "look how metal we are, we are so metal" complex that I think is detrimental and cheapens the music. There are far heavier, abrasive and "metal" bands out there, and they don't go around with their wagging cocks in their air about it. I think if you make good music, you should be proud of it, no matter how heavy or mellow it is, and sell it as good music, not on some false idiom of heaviness or metalness.
 

Cerrax

New member
Feb 15, 2009
164
0
0
I don't understand how people can say metal won't last. Its pretty hard to walk down the street and not run into a metal fan.

We all argue about what's "Real Metal" whats not, but honestly, anyone who enjoys metal whether its Nu-metal or classic Thrash or even the darkest, heaviest Doom/Death metal, they still have one thing in common, they enjoy the sheer brutality and power that any form of metal brings to the rock n roll world. And that is only getting stronger in my opinion. Even emo and punk pands are turning up the volume (and the distortion) to be more like metal bands. Its undeniable that metal is here to stay.
 

zen5887

New member
Jan 31, 2008
2,923
0
0
searanox said:
It seems like every time I meet a "metal" fan, turns out that it's just some slobbering teenage whackoff who wouldn't know good music if it hit him in the side of the head with a sledgehammer (as it should in many cases), and is too busy beating off over how "heavy" the stuff is, the novelty of it all.
It seems like every time I meet a metal fan, it turns out they are a bit of a dick who, without fail, hates any band that has had any mainstream exposure or any band that has come out in the last 9 years. Maybe metal bands should just quit after their first demo. Success just isn't kvlt.

I'm also not big on hating a band because their fans are stupid.

However Searanox I agree with what you said about Cradle of Filth.

EDIT: I'm not taking a swing at anyone, just making an observation.
 

searanox

New member
Sep 22, 2008
864
0
0
zen5887 said:
It seems like every time I meet a metal fan, it turns out they are a bit of a dick who, without fail, hates any band that has had any mainstream exposure or any band that has come out in the last 9 years. Maybe metal bands should just quit after their first demo. Success just isn't kvlt.

I'm also not big on hating a band because their fans are stupid.

However Searanox I agree with what you said about Cradle of Filth.
I don't hate bands because of their fans, but they can certainly impact my opinion of the fanbase... and if the fanbase is made of retards, then that usually tells me something about the music, namely, that I might not want to stick around for it.

As for the kvlt remark... yeah okay there. I'm one of the few people that thinks that bands get over time, as opposed to getting worse. Not to say that that doesn't happen, of course, but in general I find that watching the progression and development of a band can be very interesting in and of itself; often to have a full appreciation of a band and its music, you must incorporate the whole of its prior works. I also couldn't care less about mainstream exposure, but as I said above, with more mainstream exposure comes more idiots, and that is something that I wish to avoid at all costs.
 

Milkatron

New member
Jul 18, 2008
262
0
0
Cliff_m85 said:
The people you named don't hold a flame to The Who, Pink Floyd, or Eric Clapton. Sorry, but that's my personal opinion. Your bands may pretend that they're all tough and scary....but Eric Clapton threw his own baby out a window to write an epic song. Can any of your bands say the same? No.
One band's members blew his own brains out. Then the rest of the band formed necklaces using pieces of his skull. Might not be the same, but it's even more awesome.
 

searanox

New member
Sep 22, 2008
864
0
0
Milkatron said:
One band's members blew his own brains out. Then the rest of the band formed necklaces using pieces of his skull. Might not be the same, but it's even more awesome.
Actually, none of that's confirmed. Yes, Dead from Mayhem blew his brains out. Yes, there are photos available (search for "Dawn of the Black Hearts"). There's no evidence to suggest that the band members ate pieces of his brain, or made bones out of his skull, or that their drummer used his calves as drumsticks. It's all constructions of fans.

Cliff_m85 does have a point. I listened to Animals by Pink Floyd again last night. It's one of their raunchiest albums (which isn't saying much), but it's also one of their most upbeat and energetic. They use some distorted guitars here and there, the songs are fast, etc., which for Pink Floyd is quite contrary to the norm. It's not just that, though, that makes it what it is. There is such a passion in the performance, an excitement, a power, that belies what is otherwise very mellow music. The same energy can be heard on some songs like "Another Brick in the Wall", which may well have been an early punk music influence. I think the word that Cliff is looking for is "intensity", and I would have to agree with him.
 

Zykon TheLich

Extra Heretical!
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
3,506
850
118
Country
UK
Cockroaches and Morbid Angel are the only things that can survive global nuclear war. Fact.

Otherwise...will any of the music that's around today 'last'? It's kinda difficult to tell really. We still have folk songs using traditional arrangements I suppose. Maybe in a few hundred years time someone will be performing 'All along the watchtower: trad. arrangement, unknown author' on some bizarre futuristic intsrument while music scholars debate it's origins. Perhaps even 'Cadaveric incubator of endoparasites'...or perhaps not.
 

Strafe Mcgee

New member
Jan 25, 2008
1,052
0
0
I'm surprised that no-one's linked to this yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ3emd3phLY

That pretty much sums up my feelings about metal. Metal's one of the genre's that's got the most dedicated fanbase of any. Just take a look at any metal discussion thread on here for example.
 

searanox

New member
Sep 22, 2008
864
0
0
Strafe Mcgee said:
I'm surprised that no-one's linked to this yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ3emd3phLY

That pretty much sums up my feelings about metal. Metal's one of the genre's that's got the most dedicated fanbase of any. Just take a look at any metal discussion thread on here for example.
Again, I go back to my "arrogant dipshits trying to prove how metal they are" argument. If you are "metal" then you don't need to prove it to anyone. Music should speak for itself and should not be flaunted in some ridiculous dick-waving competition.
 

roblikestoskate

New member
Oct 16, 2008
262
0
0
D3athBat said:
I then put on some newer,heavier,stuff such as Avenged Sevenfold,Machine Head,All that Remains,Children Of Bodom,Trivium,Architects,Between The Buried and Me,and of bunch of stuff that has lyrics that are quite frankly,impossible to understand unless youre a fan of that kind of music,where you seem to just get used to it and it becomes audible...
I can pretty much promise you that you'll grow out of that stuff and move on to something more sophisticated. I can understand Children of Bodom, but for me it's on a level of novelty and nostalgia that doesn't last long. I don't think hardcore or metal are particularly versatile genres and have a very finite amount to offer. I'm willing to make exceptions and I don't think I'll ever stop listening to Iron Maiden. Hallowed Be Thy Name is just too good a song. Tool is a bit smarter, but James Maynard's rage... well, you outgrow the ability to relate to that. I did, at least. I very much dislike the "I can't understand the lyrics" argument because words aren't what makes music music. Books have words. Poems have words. Essays have words. None of these have a sonic dimension unless you voluntarily read them aloud.

I think for me, it's all about pattern matching and once I see the tropes a genre of music can provide, I'm likely to say "well, that's all there is to see here". This isn't always true, but (musically speaking) when you feel like you've solved the riddle, there's little incentive to go back to it later. Why do you think people like Radiohead so much? There's a lot going on and some of it is intentionally vague and hard to interpret. If it's cryptic enough, people project what they want to onto the music and people seem to like that even more because it gives the illusion of being more personal.

On the subject of pop music: It is amazingly powerful. As much as we may hate to admit it, nothing gets attractive college girls dancing like some booty rap and or the occasional Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone". Why is that? If you are unfamiliar with mashup DJ Girl Talk, I suggest studying the way he mixes popular and obscure music to create something that really feeds off the crowd. He actually makes me appreciate throw-away rap music.

Personal Manifesto: Then there's my own personal music. What is that? How do I describe it. Well, some music is just transcendent. You've touched on the classics already, but those can even be boring out of overexposure. I love the Beatles, but you can't listen to that stuff every day. I can, however, listen to Talking Heads every day. And The Velvet Underground. There is New Order, David Bowie, The Magnetic Fields, The Clash. Older British bands are generally tasteful. There is a crude optimism about The Heartless Bastards and The GO! Team is just plain fun. I have a certain nostalgia for punk rock, but not that pop/punk garbage. Don't talk to me about Green Day or Blink 182. We can reminisce about Operation Ivy and Minor Threat, but I'll definitely be celebrating Justice and Crystal Castles. MGMT has some good ideas. Daft Punk is effortlessly enjoyable. Stevie Wonder is amazing. Danger is the future.
 

BubbleGumSnareDrum

New member
Dec 24, 2008
643
0
0
D3athBat said:
But are you accusing me of being,as you put it,a ''13year old kid who just discovers "metal" and doesn't know anything but what the t-shirts say at Hot Topic'' ?
I'm sorry, man, I've just never met an Avenged Sevenfold fan who actually knew anything about metal and you're no exception. *shrug*
 

Ace of Spades

New member
Jul 12, 2008
3,303
0
0
The first thing I thought of when I heard Heavy Music was a song about sandviches by the Heavy from Team Fortress 2, but in response to your question, the heavier music can last. I know a lot of people who like Nirvana even though they have no idea what they're singing.
 

meglathon

New member
Oct 9, 2008
403
0
0
We love it and We lisend to it will last but, will be replaced buy somting at some point.
 

IsoNeko

New member
Oct 6, 2008
457
0
0
Heres the thing, if it's going to be timeless or a "classic". It needs to have a catchy tune, and something you can sing along to without trying.

If I have to start screaming from the bottom of my bowels, just to sing a song. Then it won't be timeless. Think about this for a second.

Wooaaah, woah woah sweet child o' mine.
They call me the Seeker, I been searching low and hiiiiigh.
Noo time for loosers, cos we aaree the champiooons. Of the wooooorrrllldd.
Stop. Hammer time!

3 out of 4 have a really catchy tune. 3 out of 4 have lyrics you can sing to at your leisure, and all of them are classics in their own right, and 4 out of 4, with enough thought can be easily named down to a band/singer and to a song.
 

FragKrag

New member
Mar 2, 2009
25
0
0
yeah, I agree. Anybody ever listen to Chapel of Ghouls?

"Demons attack with hate
Satan in the fires of hell awaits
Death against you all
God hear my death call"

as catchy as death metal lyrics get. AZAGTHOTTTTHHHHHHHH~
 

dieseldub

New member
Dec 23, 2008
77
0
0
Is Heavy Metal here to stay would really have been a great question 40 years ago. With bands from Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden it has shown its staying power. It has influenced hardcore punk, grunge, pop, rap, and even classical music. At this point it would be hard to imagine modern and future music/culture without it.
 

Strafe Mcgee

New member
Jan 25, 2008
1,052
0
0
searanox said:
Again, I go back to my "arrogant dipshits trying to prove how metal they are" argument. If you are "metal" then you don't need to prove it to anyone. Music should speak for itself and should not be flaunted in some ridiculous dick-waving competition.
Sure, all I was trying to say is that metal's never gonna go away because it has such a dedicated listener base, regardless of whether they're twats or not.