Poll: Is abortion murder?

[Tdc2182]

This is, again, an incredibly short-sighed p.o.v. You're forgetting about rape, just to name one thing. Can you imagine how it feels to give birth to a child conceived from your own brother who raped you 9 months back? I sincerely doubt you can.

Basically, you are saying that because the father is an asshole the child has no right to live anymore.

Also, the "a person is a person" statement has no foundation in reality whatsoever, it is quite frankly nonsense. Why is simple; it is living human tissue, yes, but it is not even an independent organism. It does not live on it's own, it has no individual mind for quite a part of it's growth cycle.

Here we go again with people getting all ancy about idealisms. Yes, the child doesn't have a conscious yet. But it soon will. People shouldn't have the right who decides to live and die.

According to your statement, human cell-growths in labs to replace live animal testing are persons too. I am really curious how you'd support that statement as biologically it makes no sense.

This doesn't make much sense, try rephrasing. I was under the impression we were talking about abortion?

 

[gamer_parent]

This is, again, an incredibly short-sighed p.o.v. You're forgetting about rape, just to name one thing. Can you imagine how it feels to give birth to a child conceived from your own brother who raped you 9 months back? I sincerely doubt you can.

Basically, you are saying that because the father is an asshole the child has no right to live anymore.

you're right, it's so much better for to make the mother have to deal with the consequences of another man's criminal actions.

 

[Tdc2182]

For one's right to live, I refer back to my post on sperm.

A person does not exist until after birth.

well, there is something we will never agree on

Waiting until marriage still does not mean that one is ready for raising a child. Furthermore, two people deciding to get married before they know if they're sexually compatible can often spell disaster for that relationship, unless it's reduced to the sort of patriarchal system marriage was originally intended to solidify... where the woman was the man's possession, rather than the two being equal partners.

If you still think that this holds true today, you need to get out more Look at my family and you will see that my dad doesn't wear the pants.

And no one here said that being married somehow gives you magical parenting abilities. It just means that they are responsible enough to wait for sex and wait for each other, so they are more likely to be good parents. Hell, I'm not gonna wait till marriage. Just because something is associated with religion doesn't mean that the practices still hold true today.

 

[Tdc2182]

This is, again, an incredibly short-sighed p.o.v. You're forgetting about rape, just to name one thing. Can you imagine how it feels to give birth to a child conceived from your own brother who raped you 9 months back? I sincerely doubt you can.

Basically, you are saying that because the father is an asshole the child has no right to live anymore.

you're right, it's so much better for to make the mother have to deal with the consequences of another man's criminal actions.

Whats the magic word? Wrong

It was "Adoption".

 

[DayDark]

I don't consider it murder, but it's a matter of when you get the abort. If my girlfriend got pregnant and we for some reason didn't want to have a child, then I would very much want her to get an abortion within 3 weeks after fertilization, that's about the best time to get an abortion with minimal psychological suffering for her.

 

[gamer_parent]

Whats the magic word? Wrong

It was "Adoption".

That's even better, let's make the rest of society pay for the criminal actions of one man.

 

[jeejvebe]

Nope, it's living of the woman's body, it's her choice what she wants to do with it.

 

[Lavi]

No.

It may be living in the sense that it is a complex system functioning towards self-preservation.
It may look like a human.
It may even grow into a human.

But it has not lived as a human. It has not interacted with its environment of its own provocation. It is therefore not alive. Therefore, murder cannot be done do it.

 

[Tdc2182]

Whats the magic word? Wrong

It was "Adoption".

That's even better, let's make the rest of society pay for the criminal actions of one man.

Hmm, alright then. Lets just murder the child so we don't have to deal with our problems. Just like every good parent.

 

[Reaper195]

No. Something is not sentient and alive until it fears its own death.

 

[gl1koz3]

Unless we're all that smart and all-knowing (as some suggest here by saying it's murder) that we never do the mistake of "overly successful" sex, abortion is a good way to fix problems before they even start and ruin a few people's ALREADY developed lives.

The outcome of an unwanted child is far more severe far too often.

 

[JediMB]

And no one here said that being married somehow gives you magical parenting abilities. It just means that they are responsible enough to wait for sex and wait for each other, so they are more likely to be good parents.

Of course, waiting until marriage doesn't necessarily say anything about responsibility. It can just as well just be a matter of religious dogma making them feel forced to act a certain way.

Additionally, willingly abstaining from sex isn't necessarily a responsible action either. Sex is an excellent source of stress relief, which potentially leads to a healthier and longer life.

Lastly, I refer back to my post on responsibility. I see abortion as a last line of defense, and nothing more. Contraception being the first line. However, birth control pills can fail, condoms can break, rape exists, and some people are just too damn stupid to take precautions... and as such may also be considered too stupid for parenthood. One could say abortion is a necessary evil, if one believed in the concept of evil.

Hell, I'm not gonna wait till marriage. Just because something is associated with religion doesn't mean that the practices still hold true today.

And just because it works at times doesn't mean it's beneficial.

Alas, I have spent more time discussing this than I'd wish to, so off I go now.

 

[gamer_parent]

Whats the magic word? Wrong

It was "Adoption".

That's even better, let's make the rest of society pay for the criminal actions of one man.

Hmm, alright then. Lets just murder the child so we don't have to deal with our problems. Just like every good parent.

Yes, let's all use words like "murder" to describe this, so we can easily incite anger and outrage.

And let's also pretend that our current foster care system is not entirely fucked up.

Okay, I'm going to stop now. As much fun as that was, it really wasn't constructive.

 

[thenoblitt]

well lets see, the definiton of human
1. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or having the nature of people: human frailty.
2. consisting of people: the human race.
3. of or pertaining to the social aspect of people: human affairs.
4. sympathetic; humane: a warmly human understanding.

a fetus does not apply to any of those

What about the definition of murder
Law . the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

so a fetus is not a human and murder is killing a human, so no abortion is not murder, i dare you to defy this logic

 

[Tdc2182]

And no one here said that being married somehow gives you magical parenting abilities. It just means that they are responsible enough to wait for sex and wait for each other, so they are more likely to be good parents.

Of course, waiting until marriage doesn't necessarily say anything about responsibility. It can just as well just be a matter of religious dogma making them feel forced to act a certain way.

Additionally, willingly abstaining from sex isn't necessarily a responsible action either. Sex is an excellent source of stress relief, which potentially leads to a healthier and longer life.

Lastly, I refer back to my post on responsibility. I see abortion as a last line of defense, and nothing more. Contraception being the first line. However, birth control pills can fail, condoms can break, rape exists, and some people are just too damn stupid to take precautions... and as such may also be considered too stupid for parenthood. One could say abortion is a necessary evil, if one believed in the concept of evil.

Hell, I'm not gonna wait till marriage. Just because something is associated with religion doesn't mean that the practices still hold true today.

And just because it works at times doesn't mean it's beneficial.

Alas, I have spent more time discussing this than I'd wish to, so off I go now.

Samesies. Focker... Out!

 

[Jimmy_Mac]

It's more like taking a chance for life than a life itself in my view.

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

It really all boils down to how you define life. Before about 24 weeks, the foetus is incapable of surviving on it's own and therefore is not considered a separate life form. It's basically a part of the mother so it's almost like asking if severing a finger is murder. But it's not really that simple and is a very grey area. It's hard to even take a stance on it: I don't really agree with abortion but then why should an unwanted child be brought into this world considering the problem we are facing with population growth. It's none of my business if any specific person wants an abortion or not and I'd rather just leave them to form their own decisions.

 

[PoliceBox63]

Organisation, Nutrition, Excretion, Reproduction, Response.
Test these somehow and decide then...

 

[Jonluw]

Depends on how far into the pregnancy you are. Most of the time I'll say it isn't though.

 

[Mark Kennard]

The way I look at it is no, as until the umbilical cord is severed it is still part of the woman and therefore it's just a tumor or a growth of sorts and you are removing it to prevent long term pain or suffering for you or the tumor.