Poll: Israel: Is it's existence justified?
- Thread starter The Infamous Scamola
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well i came late to this thread but this will be both a response and a little bit of a rant. i'll try and contain myself.
Israel was necessary at the time. The jewish community in Europe was still living in an indoctrinated anti-symmetic environment. The logical place had to be somewhere in the middle east because it was important to their religion, it was not a far ways away, and it was not seens as a place that would cause much strife. However the quick degeneration of the situation and the protests and threats of surrounding governments as well as the ongoing turmoil in the area should have cause pause or reconsideration on part of the UN. i believe that Israel should have been created but in a more structured and negotiated way.
now while i haven't entirely elaborated on specifics i think that works as a general idea, now for a bit of a rant. Recently...well for a while actually i've noticed a kind of quality decline in posts structured and rational argument is interrupred by rash ill thought out name calling and imperical statements that aren't elaborated upon and it's kind've frustrating
Israel was necessary at the time. The jewish community in Europe was still living in an indoctrinated anti-symmetic environment. The logical place had to be somewhere in the middle east because it was important to their religion, it was not a far ways away, and it was not seens as a place that would cause much strife. However the quick degeneration of the situation and the protests and threats of surrounding governments as well as the ongoing turmoil in the area should have cause pause or reconsideration on part of the UN. i believe that Israel should have been created but in a more structured and negotiated way.
now while i haven't entirely elaborated on specifics i think that works as a general idea, now for a bit of a rant. Recently...well for a while actually i've noticed a kind of quality decline in posts structured and rational argument is interrupred by rash ill thought out name calling and imperical statements that aren't elaborated upon and it's kind've frustrating
I should add that the telling you to stay on topic was my mistake, and I apologize. Since nothing you said was done by Israel, I assumed you were talking about something else rather than spouting lies. Apparently, I was wrong in that assumption.L.B. Jeffries said:
And I didn't expect you to show me a link that proved everything you said, but atleast something. Like, what's an example of Israel waging war on its neighbors? Who was the leader of the Palestinian government when the Jews took it over? I never heard of him.
Is this a joke? You're agreeing with him? You do realize that everything he said in his post were lies right? There was no country of Palestine when the Jews moved in, there was no Palestinian government that they took over, and they did not wage war on everyone around them. You disagree? Look up the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and tell me who was waging war on who.Ushario said:
no i do not agree with the way that the situation has been handled 'blowing up people' that is wrong!! i dont not want that to happen!!Jumplion said:Stop with the exclamation points everywhere, you're looking fanatical.perryman93 said:
The Muslims could have easily lived with the Jews in Israel, the only problem is that they didn't want any Jews in the "holy land" at all. This whole thing would be averted if Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would just say "You know, let's deal with it an live with them".
By agreeing with him, you're basically agreeing to wipe out the Jewish race and saying that they're justified in blowing up innocent civilians. And that, my friend, is anti-semeticBut that's a cheap shot, I'll admit.
I'd suggest reading Onerius's [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.108674?page=3#1840784] post about this whole thing. Just sayin'...
i never said that was fair, but that is what israel is effectively doing to people who did live in that are of the world, taken away their right to be ruled by someone of their own religion! and the people of GAZA having their homes destroyed by israeli troops, that is taking away everything they have ever known!! you hypocritesoulsabr said:
Funny, most of the people in this thread seem to think you're the one lying.ElephantGuts said:
After all they've been through, yeah, unless there are still some Philistines around because they took that from them.
You have the Holocaust, the Russian pogroms (think that was the History word we used), the Roman's treatment pre Christ.
You have the Holocaust, the Russian pogroms (think that was the History word we used), the Roman's treatment pre Christ.
Again, what? Are you making these statements based on anything actually happening or are you just saying whatever random thing pops into your head?L.B. Jeffries said:
Because I don't think that the two people who quoted you agreeing with what you said count as "most of the people in this thread."
And if you're going to simply dismiss my points as "crazy" as opposed to atleast making an attempt to answer them, I don't think we have anything to discuss here. And if that is going to be the case I suggest you leave the thread because some people are trying to sustain an intelligent, fact-based discussion here.
'Kay, the first thing I'll say is this, the point isn't whether "who was there first." The point is whether people can resolve their sheer stupid ignorance. Ironically, Palestinian "racism" is not such a huge deal in Israel, at least not on the government standpoint. The citizens there may hate the Palestinians because, oh say, a Palestinian killed an Israeli boy's mother. Is it stupid? Yes. But in Israel, Palestinians have a much higher standard of living than in any other Arab nation. Israel has always fought in defense, or in a pre-emptive strike where an attack was staring you right in the bloody eyes saying "We're about to bomb you." If three armies ammassed on American borders, I'm sure we'd attack those armies for obvious reasons. Israel doesn't want to occupy any nation, but everyone has the misconception that they're evil Arab hating bigots. The only reason Israel hasn't been able to effectively do anything is because every major superpower of the world is sucking on the tit of Arabic oil kings. If the Middle East had no economic bearing on us, I highly doubt Israel would be called out for attacking likely locations of Hamas weapon safehouses, even if civilians died. Israel is fighting a constrant struggle, and when casualties amount, they're the ones who get criticized. Wake up people, it's not a matter of ownership, it's a matter of the Arab nations getting rid of their totalitarian dictators and their own biggoted agenda to eliminate Israel.
I have not answered the poll because I think the answer is, and should be, far more complex. As things stand at this moment, I do think that Israel should, indeed must be allowed to exist. And I would say the same about a "Palestinian" state.
But, as an American from the South, I would just as soon we leave that area (and everywhere else) to its own devices.
But, as an American from the South, I would just as soon we leave that area (and everywhere else) to its own devices.
The US and Britain gave the heads up to all that horrible stuff. After WWII.Labyrinth said:
And they gave the power to somebody...dont know who.
And both the Isaraelis and Palestinians agree that Jews were there first. At least in their bible it says that(Quron, bible, etc.)
At least I think, dont go too hard on me If its filled with stupid, this post.