Poll: Mass Effect vs. KotOR

[kasperbbs]

Mass effect, i`m sick of that star wars nonsense, at least ME is a little different, apart from being in space, having aliens and powers, crap.. Still i was never into SW, but i love ME's universe.

 

[Ascarus]

I enjoyed KoToR (dark side story -- i felt the light side ending to be especially weak in comparison) much more than ME. But I have a great deal of nostalgia for SW having grown up with it and the expanded universe.

that said ME is a great series. i felt ME2 faltered in carrying the main plot forward (it was all recruitment), but hopefully ME3 will return to the main plot and finish off the story of Shepherd while opening up avenues for further exploration.

 

[WorldCritic]

I love Mass Effect, but I still enjoy KOTOR more. One thing that turned me a bit off from the first Mass Effect was the fact that the story structure is pretty much copied over from KOTOR. It gave me the impression that while Bioware worked hard on the game, they couldn't be bugged with being a little more original with their stroy structure, but in the end that's a pretty small complaint and apparently I'm the only one who really cares about stuff like that, so whatever.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

Knights of the Old Republic is Star Wars in its purest form, with crap from both the original trilogy and the prequels to give it a nice bit of flair. However, the fact that it is pure Star Wars gives it a limited enough vision to where I love it, but I wouldn't ever consider calling it one of the greatest games ever made. It wasn't until Kotor 2 when Obsidian essentially made the anti-Star Wars that I was suddenly interested in ever facet of the world.

Mass Effect on the other hand is everything I've wanted from a sci-fi game since I started gaming. The world is incredibly deep, and for a heavily plot driven narrative, I'm not bored by any of the major events that occur.

 

[michiehoward]

Yes, KotOR was ME's mother, and yes, KotOR was an awesome game (although I'm one of the minority who also really loved KotOR 2).

But what tilts the balance on favour of ME for me is that I'm impressed that they've put so much effort into developing their own IP. To start a new and original sci-fi saga with the depth of ME is astounding; I haven't seen another studio do that sort of thing so well.

I join you in the minority Sith Lords rocked, The Exile might have been slightly more ambiguous than Revan but the game was a definite upgrade (as a whole) from the first one.

Again i agree with Bioware really going the distance with the ME universe, very amazing, and everytime I open the Codex of those two games I learn something new.

 

[Comma-Kazie]

I prefer Mass Effect primarily because it's original, rather than further milking a dead franchise.

 

[LetalisK]

I think KotOR was the better game. The main mission and even side missions in Mass Effect were awesome, but they were tragically short with too much bullshit exploration pumped in as filler.

 

[Ian Nelson]

KoTOR, easy. ME was basically KoTOR with better graphics while being far less interesting.

Agreed dude. Still playable though.

 

[Ian Nelson]

I have played all 4 games multiple times, invested hundreds of hours in all of them because they are superior games. But........ME gets edge because of SWTOR being made into a MMORPG, the fuckers, they give the series back to Bioware and they make a MMORPG.....-anger-

I know man. The money sucking bastards. I feel like BioWare is a sell out especially ME 2. Not to say I'm not excited to play it, Just don't want them to go all WoW on me and suck 15 dollars out of my pocket a month just so I can imagine I'm Han Solo...AGAIN.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Never played Mass Effect, so I can't really have an opinion about that, but the thing that made KOTOR such a great game for me was the plot twist, never saw it coming, nearly had a stoke. I had thought to myself, well if its a Star Wars RPG it's gotta have some weird twist, but it couldn't get more personal than "I am your father". Boy was I wrong.

Also the characters in KOTOR were awesome, HK-47 really brought an aspect of fun to every conversation.

 

[Woodsey]

I'll have to disagree, albeit possibly on a semantic level. KotOR 2's story could have been better and certainly should have been, but the storytelling was so messy in places (and dear fucking god, the ending!) that it practically hung itself. KotOR, on the other hand, had a much simpler story that was told much better - also helped that it had one of the best twists EVAAAAAAAAAAR.

I do give them credit for Kreia though, as she is particularly interesting, as is the role of the Exile. And the scene in the Jedi temple near the end of the game is one of my favourites in any game.

The problem is, all the story faults of KotOR 2 are entirely down to Lucasarts. Obsidian wanted more time to finish the game, Lucasarts said it had to be out by Christmas. Obsidian then offered to release all the cut content as a free patch*, but again Lucasarts (for entirely unknown, and presumably stupid reasons) said no. If Lucasarts hadn't pulled two monumental dick moves, KotOR 2 would probably be universally recognised as better than its predecessor.

I also find it funny, often comparing Bioware and Obsidian as I do, that in my opinion KotOR 2 serves as almost as a 'take that' to Bioware in two ways. Firstly in how they completely inverted the tone and story of the original. Secondly, and entirely unintentional by Obsidian, but as a show of how you actually develop a game with only a year's worth of development time.

*Also interesting to note how Obsidian offered to give the cut content to gamers for free, in order to make up for the game being gutted at launch. Such a contrast to how developers now intentionally take stuff out of games in order to sell it to gamers at a later date. Yes AssCreed 2, I'm looking at you!

In response to what you've highlighted:

1) Supposedly
2) A tonal change isn't really a "fuck you" to BioWare, its what their story called for, and it was a logical step when taking Revan out of the picture to go and do what he did (or tried to)
3) Supposedly

Number 1 especially. Obsidian have blamed everyone but themselves on several occasions now, and the argument is starting to lose weight. In the case of KotOR 2, people have deadlines, and whilst theirs was unfair, they should have applied themselves appropriately. They are an example of how not to make a game in a year.

 

[Ian Nelson]

Yes, KotOR was ME's mother, and yes, KotOR was an awesome game (although I'm one of the minority who also really loved KotOR 2).

But what tilts the balance on favour of ME for me is that I'm impressed that they've put so much effort into developing their own IP. To start a new and original sci-fi saga with the depth of ME is astounding; I haven't seen another studio do that sort of thing so well.

I think alot of people loved KOTOR 2. It just seems unfinished and could've ended better. Personally I still have both and play them ever so often. Lucas Arts are just money sucking bastards that shit on Picassos.

 

[ZeroDotZero]

I prefer Mass Effect. I just like the way it deals with alien cultures a bit more.

 

[Woodsey]

In response to what you've highlighted:

1) Supposedly
2) A tonal change isn't really a "fuck you" to BioWare, its what their story called for, and it was a logical step when taking Revan out of the picture to go and do what he did (or tried to)
3) Supposedly

Number 1 especially. Obsidian have blamed everyone but themselves on several occasions now, and the argument is starting to lose weight. In the case of KotOR 2, people have deadlines, and whilst theirs was unfair, they should have applied themselves appropriately. They are an example of how not to make a game in a year.

1) Considering the amount of data that was on the disc that hadn't been integrated into the game, and factoring in the ludicrously short development period, I think it's fair to say Obsidian aren't lying in this case. No developer would go to the effort of making entire scenes and levels, only to leave them as raw data on the disc.

2) Regardless of how Obsidian should have 'applied themselves', Lucasarts should have known better than to try and expect a full-blown sequel to KotOR in one year. That either suggests they're sadistic bastards, or they know nothing of game development. By all accounts, the original development period was supposed to be longer, but Lucasarts halfway through to get the game out for Christmas. Hence why a lot of the missing stuff is present as data on the disc, but isn't actually integrated into the game.

3) I never said a 'fuck you', I said a 'take that'. There's a difference between the two. Obsidian were never disrespectful to the original KotOR. However, they did, if not outright retcon, at least offer a radically different interpretation of a character Bioware created. Remember, it was Obsidian's decision to send Revan to the Outer Rim. They essentially took a stereotypical Star Wars dark lord, and re-interpreted his actions in the previous game to have massively different (and in my opinion, far more interesting) motivations and effects. Essentially saying that Bioware's interpretation of the character was far shallowe than their own (which, all credit to Obsidian, it was).

4) If you can explain how Assassin's Creed 2 jumps straight from Chapter 11 to Chapter 14, with Chapters 12 and 13 being offered later as DLC, without admitting that Ubisoft have become money hungry douchebags, I will happily retract that final statement. As it is, I stand by it.

1) and 2) Yes, unfinished, unimplemented data. That's the entire problem with the game - its unfinished. Instead trying to squeeze in stuff that you'd have thought they'd known they couldn't get in, they'd try to polish up the other stuff instead. All I have ever been aware of from the developers' comments on the matter was that they had a tight deadline, not that it was actually shortened in any way.

3) OK, a 'take that'. You don't know, however, what may or may not have been taken from BioWare on the matter - they spent five years building the Dragon Age universe, I find it hard to imagine that the only thing they wrote out for KotOR was the story they used. But yes, the developments shown in KotOR 2 did help to make him more interesting.

4) They said they had to make a decision of releasing to meet the deadline or dropping two non-vital chapters from the game. I have no particular reason to not believe that, and I don't think 2 pieces of £4-each DLC makes them money grabbers exactly.

 

[MaaZeus]

On Topic, this is hard question. I could say that Kotor is a better game because of fantastic characters, jaw dropping twist and overall being a good game, but Mass Effect is very close. That, and in Mass Effect Bioware also managed to make so fantastic world on par, even better perhaps, than Star Wars universe. IMHO of course. I cant decide yet.

 

[DustyDrB]

A finished, fixed, and updated Knights of the Old Republic II could be my favorite game ever. As it stands, I prefer the first KotOR and my actual favorite game is Mass Effect 2. However, both KotOR games are outstanding (provided you can deal with the issues in the second one) and ones that I've played and replayed often.

It's strange. I hate being mages in a game, but call it the Force and give me a lightsaber and I'll happily walk the path of a Jedi Master.

 

[MaaZeus]

A finished, fixed, and updated Knights of the Old Republic II could be my favorite game ever. As it stands, I prefer the first KotOR and my actual favorite game is Mass Effect 2. However, both KotOR games are outstanding (provided you can deal with the issues in the second one) and ones that I've played and replayed often.

It's strange. I hate being mages in a game, but call it the Force and give me a lightsaber and I'll happily walk the path of a Jedi Master.

Hah! Same here. I usually dislike being "mage" in RPGs, but in case of Star Wars games the force abusing gives me the sense of "ownage" and its awesome. Jedi Councilor/Master all the way.