Tough call, Both of their plots are great, both of them full of "how the world works" life lessons but to be frank i feel that KOTOR was bogged down by starwars. Having to make themselves fit into the plots and characters of starwars kinda hindered their own ability to express their ideas unlike mass effect which is free to make and do what it wants to show its ideas.
Aside from the Citadel, I thought of the Normandy being a bit like the White Star, and the First Contact War being a bit like the Minbari War, and the Collector General (ME2)looking like a Shadow, and Shepard sharing some characteristics with both Sinclair and Sheridan... A lot of little details, hidden and mixed but still somewhat familiar.
I admit I've never actually seen Farscape, though.
rembrandtqeinstein said:
ME really is just the star wars universe with the serial numbers filed off
Mass Effect, simply because they created their own universe. KOTOR was very well done, but it didn't take nearly as much imagination. Both excellent RPG games though.
Aside from the Citadel, I thought of the Normandy being a bit like the White Star, and the First Contact War being a bit like the Minbari War, and the Collector General (ME2)looking like a Shadow, and Shepard sharing some characteristics with both Sinclair and Sheridan... A lot of little details, hidden and mixed but still somewhat familiar.
Yes, the Shadows and the Collectors do quite resemble each other. Which just makes the collectors more awesome. ^^ For that matter, the Reapers kind of resemble Shadow Vessels.
Also, Shepard sounds a little like Sheridan and Sinclair (who already sounded kinda similar).
Oh, I remembered another one. The Rachni from Mass Effect have the same story as the Buggers from Ender's Game. Even the bit with the single queen egg left that just wants to live peacefully with humanity.
I've played KoTOR back in the day, and Mass Effect is better. KoTOR is still a very good game, though.
But I think people kinda rate KoTOR highly for some reasons, one of them being the plot twist. I've seen someone (can't remember who) compare it to the plot twist in The Sixth Sense: it's incredible the first time you see it, and it colors your impressions of the game/movie. After you play it/see it again, already knowing the plot twist, you realize the game/movie was good but less good than you thought based on the twist.
Anyway, I don't like the combat in KoTOR and find it really boring. Mass Effect 1 is somewhat better, ME2 is way better than both. In terms of writing and characters both are good, this is BioWare after all. I also find ME much more immersive, for some reason, maybe because it's not based on a "traditional" sci-fi setting. Besides, I tire of Star Wars' symphonic scores and ME had a terrific sci-fi soundtrack (ME2, unfortunately, lost points in the soundtrack department).
So, to me, better gameplay, equally good writing and characters, better universe and soundtrack = ME is better. The two are great, but I prefer ME.
Agreed. I'm a massive Star Wars fan, as any sane person is, but the Mass Effect universe sucked me in a lot more and with ease. I love both games but the ME universe is a place where, once I'm there, I never ever want to leave
I guess it is a mashup, with the story more star trek but the settings more star wars. biotics = force, citadel = coruscant, krogan = wookies/klingons etc etc.
Actually if you think about it the whole reaper story is more of a rip off of star control 2/3 than anything else. In SC2 the reaper equivalent were only hinted at and in SC3 they were more fleshed out.
I thought the whole "liquid people" to make the reaper thing in ME3 was so beyond goofy that it really snapped me out of suspension of disbelief. That is like the kind of gimmick you expect from a 50s buck rogers episode and not a modern Sci Fi epic.
I'm going to have to go with KOTOR. My issue with Mass Effect is that there was seemingly little effort made to get me to care about any of the characters, they all felt a little recycled. I played the first on PC and just never felt the need to invest in the second. Also having the protagonist pre-named just took away that precious Role Playing Element I needed to enjoy an RPG.
KOTOR on the other hand gave me a lot of freedom. Trawling through character's dialogue felt more worth pursuing than that the crap that Liara, Tali and Ashley spouted. Plus you'll struggle to find more awesome than Mission Vao and Bastilla. Also learning about Jolee and his past was pretty sweet. Not to mention how awesome the story of Malak and Revan is, also there's the excellent twist.
KOTOR. It's also the reason why I kind of lost interest in Bioware; The Old Republic instead of KOTOR 3? Wankers.
I prefer Me over Kotor, both great games, but sometimes the fighting system annoyed me so much, seriously I'm waking a guy with two lightsabers and he still manages to block me with a freaking kitchen knife or the same exact fights having vastly different results based on "luck" in the combat, thats why i always gone the forceway and just killed everyone with that.
I guess it is a mashup, with the story more star trek but the settings more star wars. biotics = force, citadel = coruscant, krogan = wookies/klingons etc etc.
Actually if you think about it the whole reaper story is more of a rip off of star control 2/3 than anything else. In SC2 the reaper equivalent were only hinted at and in SC3 they were more fleshed out.
I thought the whole "liquid people" to make the reaper thing in ME3 was so beyond goofy that it really snapped me out of suspension of disbelief. That is like the kind of gimmick you expect from a 50s buck rogers episode and not a modern Sci Fi epic.
I think it's a general mashup of space opera motifs. Asari Justicars are very Jedi and biotics do work a bit like the Force, but the Citadel reminds me more of Babylon 5 for instance. I bet people who are into other sci fi franchises will find recognizable themes as well (as you have with Star Command).
And yes, the way they resolved ME2 was ridiculous, a sort of "we're making this up as we go" moment.
But then it's not the save-the-universe storyline that kept me playing ME2, it was all about the characters this time.
KOTOR was better than Mass Effect hands down. It is not even close. One is my #1 favorite game of all time, the other is one that I would simply call "decent". Add to the fact that one takes place in my favorite science fiction universe of all time, while the other... doesn't, it would seem pretty obvious which was better to me. Now, if we were talking about KOTOR 2 versus Mass Effect 2 or even KOTOR versus Mass Effect 2 it would be a much closer contest.
YES! Someone else who thought the story of KOTOR II far outclasses pretty much anything else in gaming. Sure, Mass Effect is cool and all, but the story is very generic sci-fi tropes all crammed together. KOTOR II was also a pile of tropes, but they were largely deconstructed and the entire genre of RPGs were given a rake over the coals. I love that game so much.
I reckon that were someone to legally rip the Star Wars Franchise from George Lucas' hands and be prepared to change shit about the universe that isn't good, then any Star Wars RPG would whoop Mass Effect's ass anyday in terms of story/setting/universe. That said, LucasArts games (specifically the Star Wars ones) have been effectively stagnating for me for the last five years and unless there is significant shakeup in the company, I highly doubt that I will ever buy any of their games again, except maybe TOR, but that's being largely developed by Bioware, so its ok because they made KOTOR.
Anyway I digress;
IMO
KOTOR > either Mass Effect game, not both
KOTOR < Mass Effect + Mass Effect 2
KOTOR + KOTOR 2 < Mass Effect + Mass Effect 2 (only slightly)
KOTOR 2 < either Mass Effect game or both
Overall I prefer Mass Effect, but only just; had KOTOR 2 been better, it would be different.
KoTOR, if only because a) Revan is a pure badass, and b) it led to Obsidian making KoTOR II.
Now before everyone starts going "Bwaaah? KoTOR II was an unfinished pile of crap"... Yes, KoTOR II was released unfinished (blame Lucasarts, not Obsidian), but even without the ending intact, it still probably the most interesting and compelling narrative based on Star Wars since the Original Trilogy.
The original KoTOR had one heck of a plot-twist, and some good characters (before Bioware started recycling them), but the plot was essentially the same old Star Wars fare: a bunch of companions set out on a campy adventure to overthrow a Dark Lord. Bioware strived incredibly hard to create a game that felt like a true Star Wars game, and to their credit, they did. Unfortunately, in doing so, they missed the opportunity of using their sharp writing skills to skewer a few of the more bizarre conceits of the Star Wars universe.
Obsidian, however, made no such concessions. In fact, KoTOR II may well be one the greatest pieces of iconoclasm in recent history. The entire story, while superficially similar to that of the original KoTOR (Jedi must overcome the Sith, and can choose to be good or evil in doing so), is in fact both a deconstruction of both the Star Wars mythos, and role playing games in general. Not only that, but the characterisation is both far stronger, and far darker, than the original. I'll spoiler tag my next few points, so as not to ruin the game for anyone who has yet to experience its awesomness@
The driving force behind the last act of KoTOR II is that Kreia, now revealed as Darth Traya, wants to destroy the Force. She views the idea of the Force much in the same way as a staunch atheist would view God: An insidious power that has the ability to manipulate people, and indeed entire cultures, for its own purposes. Your character, the Exile, is living proof that it is possible to live without the Force, and she wants to further that until the Galaxy is 'free of its tyranny', as she would no doubt put it. Basically, she sees the Force as an oppressor, and all sentient beings as the oppressed. By ridding ourselves of it, we become subject only to ourselves, not some mysterious higher power which holds no accountability for its actions.
And for Star Wars, that's pretty deep.
The whole idea with KoTOR II is that you acquire a band of followers and comrades, much like in any other RPG, to help you with the quest that has been presented to you. However, as the story progresses, other characters start to comment on how un-natural you seem to be. One Jedi comments that as you cross the galaxy, you kill hundreds, and seem to get stronger and stronger from that. Here, the developers are taking a snipe at the experience points system that is so pervasive of RPGs. The thought of someone being able to make themselves infinitely stronger just by killing things is, when thought about in the cold light of day, both ridiculous and slightly scary.
Another character then comments how you seem to be able to draw people to you to further your own ends. In their words, you leech their life and dominate their will. And it's true, all your companion characters seem strangely compelled to follow you, and unable to leave you, even when they know they face overwhelming odds and almost certain death. It's explained in-game as due to your dominating presence through the Force, but it's obviously the developers again having a snipe: this time at RPG characters who are more concerned with helping the player on their quest than they are about keeping themselves alive
I'll leave it at that for now, but suffice to say that I consider the story of KoTOR II to vastly outclass not just KoTOR's story, but practically anything Bioware has ever done. I don't mean that as an insult to Bioware, more that, regardless of cut content, KoTOR II has a level of writing all too rarely seen in videogames. It doesn't just engage on a dramatic level, like Bioware games do, but on a thematic level too, which is where I find Bioware lacking. But then, the story was written by the same guy who wrote Planescape: Torment, so what can you expect?
I'll have to disagree, albeit possibly on a semantic level. KotOR 2's story could have been better and certainly should have been, but the storytelling was so messy in places (and dear fucking god, the ending!) that it practically hung itself. KotOR, on the other hand, had a much simpler story that was told much better - also helped that it had one of the best twists EVAAAAAAAAAAR.
I do give them credit for Kreia though, as she is particularly interesting, as is the role of the Exile. And the scene in the Jedi temple near the end of the game is one of my favourites in any game.
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