Poll: Should feminists be involved with anime mediums?

[raikagetaicho]

A question to the people arguing above me:

Do you think fanservice anime, cutesy moe moe anime, ecchi anime, or fanservice ing eneral should be removed from the genre as morally wrong or creatively poor? These shows are clearly targeted at a certain set of people and other demographics have a high probability of inherently not liking them.
Hang on, let me get to the point here. Some of these anime could exclude women (among others). Is that neccesarily bad? There are some that are clearly targeted FOR women (Free! anyone?), so there's something for everyone. Is any of this really all that bad?

The way I see it is this: Fanservice in series made specifically for the sake of fanservice -- like Monster Musume or See Me After Class -- then I'm absolutely fine with it. Everybody needs some shlock every now and again and I like a pretty girl just as much as anybody else. But when it's in a series where it's got nothing to do with anything else, and it just looks really malplaced, yeah, I wouldn't mind it getting lost.

Let me put it this way. I can assume that most of the people in this thread has seen Puella Magica Madoka, right? And we all really like it, right? Right. Now imagine that the series had been exactly like it is, except there'd been a male character who constantly was shirtless for very contrived reasons, and who hung around Madoka & pals just so there'd be shirtlessness for female and gayman viewers. Wouldn't you feel that the show would have worked better as a whole without the manservice?

They do it in FREE and nobody was bitching.

 

[Queen Michael]

A question to the people arguing above me:

Do you think fanservice anime, cutesy moe moe anime, ecchi anime, or fanservice ing eneral should be removed from the genre as morally wrong or creatively poor? These shows are clearly targeted at a certain set of people and other demographics have a high probability of inherently not liking them.
Hang on, let me get to the point here. Some of these anime could exclude women (among others). Is that neccesarily bad? There are some that are clearly targeted FOR women (Free! anyone?), so there's something for everyone. Is any of this really all that bad?

The way I see it is this: Fanservice in series made specifically for the sake of fanservice -- like Monster Musume or See Me After Class -- then I'm absolutely fine with it. Everybody needs some shlock every now and again and I like a pretty girl just as much as anybody else. But when it's in a series where it's got nothing to do with anything else, and it just looks really malplaced, yeah, I wouldn't mind it getting lost.

Let me put it this way. I can assume that most of the people in this thread has seen Puella Magica Madoka, right? And we all really like it, right? Right. Now imagine that the series had been exactly like it is, except there'd been a male character who constantly was shirtless for very contrived reasons, and who hung around Madoka & pals just so there'd be shirtlessness for female and gayman viewers. Wouldn't you feel that the show would have worked better as a whole without the manservice?

They do it in FREE and nobody was bitching.

I haven't watched FREE! so I'll need you to elaborate a bit.

 

[Rahkshi500]

They do it in FREE and nobody was bitching.

Actually, there was a lot of people bitching about it during its production about it featuring pandering towards a female audience.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

Let me put it this way. I can assume that most of the people in this thread has seen Puella Magica Madoka, right? And we all agree it's a great show, right? Right. Now imagine that the series had been exactly like it is, except there'd been a male character who constantly was shirtless for very contrived reasons, and who hung around Madoka & pals just so there'd be shirtlessness for female and gayman viewers. Wouldn't you feel that the show would have worked better as a whole without the manservice?

Honestly, that would've been fucking hilarious.

 

[raikagetaicho]

snip
Anime/manga/related are that good because the artist who create they have the balls to do whaever they feel, that include there sexual fantasies, even miyasaki can't stop to put panty shots in his movies(again the self proclaim feminist).

I will refer you to my defense of Kill la Kill as an excellent show with the fanservice enhancing the experience

Fanservice is a tool and if you use it well, I have no issue. You use it as poorly as some shows I've mentioned and I will punch it in the face

yes because this costume have to be like this:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/329/1/3/kill_la_kill_satsuki_by_cirenk-d6vo4bx.jpg

 

[Leoofmoon]

snip
Anime/manga/related are that good because the artist who create they have the balls to do whaever they feel, that include there sexual fantasies, even miyasaki can't stop to put panty shots in his movies(again the self proclaim feminist).

I will refer you to my defense of Kill la Kill as an excellent show with the fanservice enhancing the experience

Fanservice is a tool and if you use it well, I have no issue. You use it as poorly as some shows I've mentioned and I will punch it in the face

yes because this costume have to be like this:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/329/1/3/kill_la_kill_satsuki_by_cirenk-d6vo4bx.jpg

Kill la kill isn't using fan service as a sexual thrill for the watcher its just a thing that happens in the world unlike most naime that will focus the camera on the naughty bits with a sound effect.
Alos

 

[raikagetaicho]

They do it in FREE and nobody was bitching.

Actually, there was a lot of people bitching about it during its production about it featuring pandering towards a female audience.

The bitching was the traison of kyoani for make a fujioishi show when they have the honor to be the best anime studio(for anime fans in japan), when they could work in a new proyect for haruhi suzumiya, fullmetal panic, ect. but when that shit started they liked and is suprice you the strong male fan base.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

snip
Anime/manga/related are that good because the artist who create they have the balls to do whaever they feel, that include there sexual fantasies, even miyasaki can't stop to put panty shots in his movies(again the self proclaim feminist).

I will refer you to my defense of Kill la Kill as an excellent show with the fanservice enhancing the experience

Fanservice is a tool and if you use it well, I have no issue. You use it as poorly as some shows I've mentioned and I will punch it in the face

yes because this costume have to be like this:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/329/1/3/kill_la_kill_satsuki_by_cirenk-d6vo4bx.jpg

See thematic arguments for clothing being oppression and restraint, lack of inhibition as a source of power, and the scene with Ragyo as an allegory for US imposing policies on Japan made by Charles Dunbar in his presentation (small part of discussion here [http://www.studyofanime.com/2014/12/12-days-of-anime-schoolgirls-and.html])

 

[raikagetaicho]

A question to the people arguing above me:

Do you think fanservice anime, cutesy moe moe anime, ecchi anime, or fanservice ing eneral should be removed from the genre as morally wrong or creatively poor? These shows are clearly targeted at a certain set of people and other demographics have a high probability of inherently not liking them.
Hang on, let me get to the point here. Some of these anime could exclude women (among others). Is that neccesarily bad? There are some that are clearly targeted FOR women (Free! anyone?), so there's something for everyone. Is any of this really all that bad?

The way I see it is this: Fanservice in series made specifically for the sake of fanservice -- like Monster Musume or See Me After Class -- then I'm absolutely fine with it. Everybody needs some shlock every now and again and I like a pretty girl just as much as anybody else. But when it's in a series where it's got nothing to do with anything else, and it just looks really malplaced, yeah, I wouldn't mind it getting lost.

Let me put it this way. I can assume that most of the people in this thread has seen Puella Magica Madoka, right? And we all really like it, right? Right. Now imagine that the series had been exactly like it is, except there'd been a male character who constantly was shirtless for very contrived reasons, and who hung around Madoka & pals just so there'd be shirtlessness for female and gayman viewers. Wouldn't you feel that the show would have worked better as a whole without the manservice?

They do it in FREE and nobody was bitching.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2013/08/16/free-totally-merciless-even-to-fujoshi/
I haven't watched FREE! so I'll need you to elaborate a bit.[/quo

anime have service for every one.

 

[Armadox]

snip
Anime/manga/related are that good because the artist who create they have the balls to do whaever they feel, that include there sexual fantasies, even miyasaki can't stop to put panty shots in his movies(again the self proclaim feminist).

I will refer you to my defense of Kill la Kill as an excellent show with the fanservice enhancing the experience

Fanservice is a tool and if you use it well, I have no issue. You use it as poorly as some shows I've mentioned and I will punch it in the face

yes because this costume have to be like this:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/329/1/3/kill_la_kill_satsuki_by_cirenk-d6vo4bx.jpg

Actually, yes. Those costumes had to look like that exactly for them to have the exact effect on you. Does it have to look like that to tell the story? No, every story can be told differently. But for that story to be told in a way for you to see it as that art in and of itself, it must look like it does. Changing it would simply be telling a different story.

So it does, and you have the feelings toward it because it does.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Kill la kill isn't using fan service as a sexual thrill for the watcher its just a thing that happens in the world unlike most naime that will focus the camera on the naughty bits with a sound effect.
Alos

That and the thematic elements (look up Shuten Doji vs. State Shinto by Charles Dunbar for an analysis of the show) are tied directly to the show and allegory can be made.

The show is capable of using fanservice in a way that empowers it's characters and strengthen it's themes

 

[Queen Michael]

A question to the people arguing above me:

Do you think fanservice anime, cutesy moe moe anime, ecchi anime, or fanservice ing eneral should be removed from the genre as morally wrong or creatively poor? These shows are clearly targeted at a certain set of people and other demographics have a high probability of inherently not liking them.
Hang on, let me get to the point here. Some of these anime could exclude women (among others). Is that neccesarily bad? There are some that are clearly targeted FOR women (Free! anyone?), so there's something for everyone. Is any of this really all that bad?

The way I see it is this: Fanservice in series made specifically for the sake of fanservice -- like Monster Musume or See Me After Class -- then I'm absolutely fine with it. Everybody needs some shlock every now and again and I like a pretty girl just as much as anybody else. But when it's in a series where it's got nothing to do with anything else, and it just looks really malplaced, yeah, I wouldn't mind it getting lost.

Let me put it this way. I can assume that most of the people in this thread has seen Puella Magica Madoka, right? And we all really like it, right? Right. Now imagine that the series had been exactly like it is, except there'd been a male character who constantly was shirtless for very contrived reasons, and who hung around Madoka & pals just so there'd be shirtlessness for female and gayman viewers. Wouldn't you feel that the show would have worked better as a whole without the manservice?

They do it in FREE and nobody was bitching.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2013/08/16/free-totally-merciless-even-to-fujoshi/
I haven't watched FREE! so I'll need you to elaborate a bit.

Okay, I'm not sure I see what you're trying to say. Is your point that FREE! was full of manservice? 'Cause I knew it was a manservice show.

 

[Queen Michael]

]

Let me put it this way. I can assume that most of the people in this thread has seen Puella Magica Madoka, right? And we all agree it's a great show, right? Right. Now imagine that the series had been exactly like it is, except there'd been a male character who constantly was shirtless for very contrived reasons, and who hung around Madoka & pals just so there'd be shirtlessness for female and gayman viewers. Wouldn't you feel that the show would have worked better as a whole without the manservice?

Honestly, that would've been fucking hilarious.

Don't worry, mate. They're bound to make another spinoff series/movie/manga/refrigerator that features it at some point.

 

[Leoofmoon]

[quote="Izanagi009" post="18.868109.21724952"

That and the thematic elements (look up Shuten Doji vs. State Shinto by Charles Dunbar for an analysis of the show) are tied directly to the show and allegory can be made.

The show is capable of using fanservice in a way that empowers it's characters and strengthen it's themes[/quote]

And I agree but as I side in my last post, to a outsider it just looks like its boobs for boobs sake. the ninja girl anime I showed has a moment where there eating sea weed rolls and there or more less just fellatioing it in a advertisement, i can easily see people looking at that and saying "right never going to watch that!" like I did.

I am not saying Kill la kill is bad for it but you need to keep in mind of a outsiders view to both the show and anime.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

snip
Anime/manga/related are that good because the artist who create they have the balls to do whaever they feel, that include there sexual fantasies, even miyasaki can't stop to put panty shots in his movies(again the self proclaim feminist).

I will refer you to my defense of Kill la Kill as an excellent show with the fanservice enhancing the experience

Fanservice is a tool and if you use it well, I have no issue. You use it as poorly as some shows I've mentioned and I will punch it in the face

yes because this costume have to be like this:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/329/1/3/kill_la_kill_satsuki_by_cirenk-d6vo4bx.jpg

See thematic arguments for clothing being oppression and restraint, lack of inhibition as a source of power, and the scene with Ragyo as an allegory for US imposing policies on Japan made by Charles Dunbar in his presentation (small part of discussion here [http://www.studyofanime.com/2014/12/12-days-of-anime-schoolgirls-and.html])

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2014/02/01/kill-la-kill-sexy-bathtime-groping-anime/

I will admit that the bath scene and the first introduction of Senketsu were questionable at best but the former does illustrate Ragyo's depravity and control over Satsuki

In addition, unlike Cross Ange which had scenes like this, it actually developed it's cast at this point and made them memorable and thought out compared to Ange and her gang.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

A question to the people arguing above me:

Do you think fanservice anime, cutesy moe moe anime, ecchi anime, or fanservice ing eneral should be removed from the genre as morally wrong or creatively poor? These shows are clearly targeted at a certain set of people and other demographics have a high probability of inherently not liking them.
Hang on, let me get to the point here. Some of these anime could exclude women (among others). Is that neccesarily bad? There are some that are clearly targeted FOR women (Free! anyone?), so there's something for everyone. Is any of this really all that bad?

In short, no but with caveats

In long: eroticism and good writing are not mutually exclusive. Again, I would argue Kill la Kill as a combination of both. However, if I was to only take one or the other, writing would be my focus because I don't feel like I'm being treated like a chimp. The distribution of quality among shows with fanservice kind of weighs against it with most of them having poor to even antagonistic bad writing (second arc of SAO anyone) and the number of shows with both good writing and fanservice are slim in the grand scheme of things.

Seeing as the elimination of fanservice is entirely impossible, I would like to at least have people ask for better characterization and plot in their fanservice shows than just well, fluff.

For good or bad, some people like just having fluff. I would prefer better writing in all things, but others don't, sometimes not even the creators prefer it, which is the most important part. Some people just prefer to have all the effort and resources go into the fluff they're expecting. I know it sounds a ridiculous, but atleast there's plenty of good stuff.

 

[Queen Michael]

snip
Anime/manga/related are that good because the artist who create they have the balls to do whaever they feel, that include there sexual fantasies, even miyasaki can't stop to put panty shots in his movies(again the self proclaim feminist).

I will refer you to my defense of Kill la Kill as an excellent show with the fanservice enhancing the experience

Fanservice is a tool and if you use it well, I have no issue. You use it as poorly as some shows I've mentioned and I will punch it in the face

yes because this costume have to be like this:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/329/1/3/kill_la_kill_satsuki_by_cirenk-d6vo4bx.jpg

See thematic arguments for clothing being oppression and restraint, lack of inhibition as a source of power, and the scene with Ragyo as an allegory for US imposing policies on Japan made by Charles Dunbar in his presentation (small part of discussion here [http://www.studyofanime.com/2014/12/12-days-of-anime-schoolgirls-and.html])

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2014/02/01/kill-la-kill-sexy-bathtime-groping-anime/

Thanks for the link! I needed another anime to watch since I finished Madoka.