Poll: Skyrim: The Armour complaint.

[FlammableHat]

Meh, personally the stats don't make too much of a difference to me, it's not an MMO, being able to one hit stuff doesn't really matter and isn't even that fun, I really enjoy when everything goes to shit on my stealth-user and I have to fight like a ************ just to get away. I never enchant any gear, create any spells or make any potions just for this reason. Being an unstoppable killing machine that takes no damage and wears a suit of armour that looks completely mismatched isn't amazing gameplay.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Game breaking spells aren't the issue because casting spells yourself is an excercise in pointlessness in Morrowind. You've actually gone the opposite way to the point I was making. Wizards are rubbish.. atrociously rubbish.

...

Except that the optimal way to do all of those things relies on a single strategy.

* Make intelligence potions.
* Drink intelligence potions.
* Make overpowered enchantments.

Haha, since when did magic items and magic potions stop being wizard things? Take the guy in this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XChxLGnIwCU] - in Morrowind terms, he's just pissed because someone stole his +intelligence (for alteration/conjuration/alchemy) hat.

Also, you thinking mages are underpowered in Morrowind just tells me you haven't being creative enough with your spells. You can basically neutralize any threat in the game with the right illusion spell, or if that fails with flight. Or you can cast a spell that basically refills your mana pool by dividing it by zero. Or a spell that trains Restoration while allowing you to escape the confines of the mana pool that mere mortals have to deal with.

In Morrowind, there's really no point in overkill. If a strategy is enough to win any combat or overcome any physical obstacle, than that strategy is exactly enough kill, and anything after that is just showing off. Not that there's anything wrong with showing off - a +enchant suit (which you don't need intelligence potions to make) is pretty fun, too. In other words, there's more ways than a few to break Morrowind exactly as much as it needs to be broken, and plenty of those ways don't involve potions or enchantments.

But this is all a side issue. The core issue is this: why are you telling other people how to have fun in a single-player game? Who do you hope to convince, and what do you hope to accomplish? Let us have our fun, man.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I think the issue is that most of us who play in a more challenging way feel frustrated by the engine because to us it feels 'broken' there is no polish or constraints to it and as Evil said before it feels more like a physics engine than an RPG. Why should I bother with sneak when I can just 100% chamleon and lol my way around Tamriel? To me that makes the game less fun as I know if I took my character sheet online most people would say LOL why you bothering with that just do this and cheese.

It's like Ezio having a levitate spell... (The assassin not Eliza's dad)

I made a thread not long ago about me spawning arrows becuase I was frustrated with how many its was taking to do a dungeon. It looks like they have fixed the bow system, or attempted too. Now I am happy because it measn that the game is no longer 'broken' (Bethesda actually admitted that it was a problem) in that regard and I can feel comfortable speccing for that style.

I think this is what Bethesda are going for in their reimagining of the Elder Scrolls system. They don't want their game to be so 'breakable' or nonsensical. It's not something they intended.

 

[Werething]

I care so unbelievably little, it almost hurts.

People get worked up over such minute details.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I care so unbelievably little, it almost hurts.

People get worked up over such minute details.

It also makes the armour 20% cooler. and welcome to the Escapist btw

 

[Kahunaburger]

snip

I think the issue is that most of us who play in a more challenging way feel frustrated by the engine because to us it feels 'broken' there is no polish or constraints to it and as Evil said before it feels more like a physics engine than an RPG. Why should I bother with sneak when I can just 100% chamleon and lol my way around Tamriel? To me that makes the game less fun as I know if I took my character sheet online most people would say LOL why you bothering with that just do this and cheese.

It's like Ezio having a levitate spell... (The assassin not Eliza's dad)

I made a thread not long ago about me spawning arrows becuase I was frustrated with how many its was taking to do a dungeon. It looks like they have fixed the bow system, or attempted too. Now I am happy because it measn that the game is no longer 'broken' (Bethesda actually admitted that it was a problem) in that regard and I can feel comfortable speccing for that style.

I think this is what Bethesda are going for in their reimagining of the Elder Scrolls system. They don't want their game to be so 'breakable' or nonsensical. It's not something they intended.

Here's the problem, for me: the ability to make 100% chameleon or whatever isn't what makes the game easy to break. It's interesting magic (whether you express that through potions, spells, or enchantments) that make the game easy to break. For instance, levitation eliminates all ground-based melee enemies as a credible threat, invisibility and sneaking eliminate all enemies as a credible threat, calm/control/flee creature/person eliminates everything but undead/daedra as a credible threat, and turn undead eliminates undead as a credible threat. But a game without these options is going to be a lot more boring, as is a game that doesn't allow you to stack effects in creative ways.

And honestly, if the lack of constraints (i.e., you can fly around if you want to, or go invisible whenever you feel like it) are what makes Elder Scrolls games unique. Throw in the same constraints you'd see in a different RPG, and you're honestly strictly better off playing Deus Ex, Fallout: NV, Mount and Blade, Witcher 2, or Dragon Age: Origins.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I think the issue is that most of us who play in a more challenging way feel frustrated by the engine because to us it feels 'broken' there is no polish or constraints to it and as Evil said before it feels more like a physics engine than an RPG. Why should I bother with sneak when I can just 100% chamleon and lol my way around Tamriel? To me that makes the game less fun as I know if I took my character sheet online most people would say LOL why you bothering with that just do this and cheese.

It's like Ezio having a levitate spell... (The assassin not Eliza's dad)

I made a thread not long ago about me spawning arrows becuase I was frustrated with how many its was taking to do a dungeon. It looks like they have fixed the bow system, or attempted too. Now I am happy because it measn that the game is no longer 'broken' (Bethesda actually admitted that it was a problem) in that regard and I can feel comfortable speccing for that style.

I think this is what Bethesda are going for in their reimagining of the Elder Scrolls system. They don't want their game to be so 'breakable' or nonsensical. It's not something they intended.

Here's the problem, for me: the ability to make 100% chameleon or whatever isn't what makes the game easy to break. It's interesting magic (whether you express that through potions, spells, or enchantments) that make the game easy to break. For instance, levitation eliminates all ground-based melee enemies as a credible threat, invisibility and sneaking eliminate all enemies as a credible threat, calm/control/flee creature/person eliminates everything but undead/daedra as a credible threat, and turn undead eliminates undead as a credible threat. But a game without these options is going to be a lot more boring, as is a game that doesn't allow you to stack effects in creative ways.

And honestly, if the lack of constraints (i.e., you can fly around if you want to, or go invisible whenever you feel like it) are what makes Elder Scrolls games unique. Throw in the same constraints you'd see in a different RPG, and you're honestly strictly better off playing Deus Ex, Fallout: NV, Mount and Blade, Witcher 2, or Dragon Age: Origins.

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

 

[Kahunaburger]

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

Well, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that it supports both of those playstyles. That's sort of what makes it unique. If you take out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, destruction spells more interesting than "do X damage to Y" and so on, then it's basically just a worse version of Mount and Blade.

And more to the point, it's a single-player game. More options are never bad in a single player game, because anyone who doesn't want to experience those options can choose not to use them.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

Well, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that it supports both of those playstyles. That's sort of what makes it unique. If you take out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, destruction spells more interesting than "do X damage to Y" and so on, then it's basically just a worse version of Mount and Blade.

And more to the point, it's a single-player game. More options are never bad in a single player game, because anyone who doesn't want to experience those options can choose not to use them.

But that's my point, they are there. So you feel like an idiot for doing things the proper way when you could just be making things easy for yourself.

I don't know it just kind of ruins the game for a me a little that the game is so easily breakable.

 

[Kahunaburger]

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

Well, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that it supports both of those playstyles. That's sort of what makes it unique. If you take out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, destruction spells more interesting than "do X damage to Y" and so on, then it's basically just a worse version of Mount and Blade.

And more to the point, it's a single-player game. More options are never bad in a single player game, because anyone who doesn't want to experience those options can choose not to use them.

But that's my point, they are there. So you feel like an idiot for doing things the proper way when you could just be making things easy for yourself.

I don't know it just kind of ruins the game for a me a little that the game is so easily breakable.

But how does that affect you at all? That would be like saying that I feel like an idiot for playing an Elder Scrolls game when I could be playing Minecraft. The possibility that you can play an Elder Scrolls game multiple ways is kind of the point of the game, and taking out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, and so on just so that people feel more comfortable playing the game a certain way makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Dalek Caan]

I am bit annoyed but I will be fine, played Fallout 3 and still thought that was awesome. No reason why Skyrim can't. I am sure I will get over it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

Well, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that it supports both of those playstyles. That's sort of what makes it unique. If you take out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, destruction spells more interesting than "do X damage to Y" and so on, then it's basically just a worse version of Mount and Blade.

And more to the point, it's a single-player game. More options are never bad in a single player game, because anyone who doesn't want to experience those options can choose not to use them.

But that's my point, they are there. So you feel like an idiot for doing things the proper way when you could just be making things easy for yourself.

I don't know it just kind of ruins the game for a me a little that the game is so easily breakable.

But how does that affect you at all? That would be like saying that I feel like an idiot for playing an Elder Scrolls game when I could be playing Minecraft. The possibility that you can play an Elder Scrolls game multiple ways is kind of the point of the game, and taking out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, and so on just so that people feel more comfortable playing the game a certain way makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's like there is a god mode in the game and if you don't use it then you are moron becuase why would you make the game hard for yourself while everyone else is breezing through it with 100% chameleon or whatever.

Whereas if the game is 'fixed' it make it more satisfying to play it 'properly'.

I really don't know how else to explain my point...

Lets say Minecraft, an actual scenario I saw on these forums

Say 'guy A' makes a server and he and his friends build a town and then 'guy B' says why are we mining for everything when 'guy A' can just spawn it for us.

Guy A says 'Well thats not playing the game properly'... and the rest of the server say 'well we are leaving then becuase that's what everyone else is doing'

It's like that but with 1 person....bad analogy? probably... but I'm not sure how else to explain.

 

[CoverYourHead]

I dislike it, now I can't be topless, and that was one of my favorite things about my thief! Sneakin' around and robbing people wearing only pants and a hood, it was awesome! And now we can't be topless vikings! It's terrible!

 

[Kahunaburger]

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

Well, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that it supports both of those playstyles. That's sort of what makes it unique. If you take out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, destruction spells more interesting than "do X damage to Y" and so on, then it's basically just a worse version of Mount and Blade.

And more to the point, it's a single-player game. More options are never bad in a single player game, because anyone who doesn't want to experience those options can choose not to use them.

But that's my point, they are there. So you feel like an idiot for doing things the proper way when you could just be making things easy for yourself.

I don't know it just kind of ruins the game for a me a little that the game is so easily breakable.

But how does that affect you at all? That would be like saying that I feel like an idiot for playing an Elder Scrolls game when I could be playing Minecraft. The possibility that you can play an Elder Scrolls game multiple ways is kind of the point of the game, and taking out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, and so on just so that people feel more comfortable playing the game a certain way makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's like there is a god mode in the game and if you don't use it then you are moron becuase why would you make the game hard for yourself while everyone else is breezing through it with 100% chameleon or whatever.

Whereas if the game is 'fixed' it make it more satisfying to play it 'properly'.

I really don't know how else to explain my point...

Lets say Minecraft, an actual scenario I saw on these forums

Say 'guy A' makes a server and he and his friends build a town and then 'guy B' says why are we mining for everything when 'guy A' can just spawn it for us.

Guy A says 'Well thats not playing the game properly'... and the rest of the server say 'well we are leaving then becuase that's what everyone else is doing'

It's like that but with 1 person....bad analogy? probably... but I'm not sure how else to explain.

So wait... does that mean you don't want people in Minecraft to be able to make servers that spawn stuff if they want to? Honestly, if it doesn't affect the way you play, why ask to have it removed? The whole "I don't like this feature that I can choose not to use, so take it away from people who are having fun with it plox" argument is not something I get, TBH.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

But since you can do that there is no point to playing the game properly....

Do you see what I'm saying.

Why even bother playing a more challenging (or realistic? not sure if that's the best word) way when there is a 'better' way of doing it. It just makes you feel like a schmuck.

I want to have to work for boss kills and progression. Because for me that is what 'the game' is. Being able to cheese though everything and you may aswell play the game on 'god mode' (If games still have those...*tries to rehide age*)

Well, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that it supports both of those playstyles. That's sort of what makes it unique. If you take out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, destruction spells more interesting than "do X damage to Y" and so on, then it's basically just a worse version of Mount and Blade.

And more to the point, it's a single-player game. More options are never bad in a single player game, because anyone who doesn't want to experience those options can choose not to use them.

But that's my point, they are there. So you feel like an idiot for doing things the proper way when you could just be making things easy for yourself.

I don't know it just kind of ruins the game for a me a little that the game is so easily breakable.

But how does that affect you at all? That would be like saying that I feel like an idiot for playing an Elder Scrolls game when I could be playing Minecraft. The possibility that you can play an Elder Scrolls game multiple ways is kind of the point of the game, and taking out stuff like levitation, invisibility, calm spells, stealth, alchemy, and so on just so that people feel more comfortable playing the game a certain way makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's like there is a god mode in the game and if you don't use it then you are moron becuase why would you make the game hard for yourself while everyone else is breezing through it with 100% chameleon or whatever.

Whereas if the game is 'fixed' it make it more satisfying to play it 'properly'.

I really don't know how else to explain my point...

Lets say Minecraft, an actual scenario I saw on these forums

Say 'guy A' makes a server and he and his friends build a town and then 'guy B' says why are we mining for everything when 'guy A' can just spawn it for us.

Guy A says 'Well thats not playing the game properly'... and the rest of the server say 'well we are leaving then becuase that's what everyone else is doing'

It's like that but with 1 person....bad analogy? probably... but I'm not sure how else to explain.

So wait... does that mean you don't want people in Minecraft to be able to make servers that spawn stuff if they want to? Honestly, if it doesn't affect the way you play, why ask to have it removed? The whole "I don't like this feature that I can choose not to use, so take it away from people who are having fun with it plox" argument is not something I get, TBH.

no....

I mean.

If that option is in the game why bother to play it properly

in the simplest terms.

 

[Kahunaburger]

no....

I mean.

If that option is in the game why bother to play it properly

in the simplest terms.

Fun? That's the reason anyone chooses any playstyle in Elder Scrolls games. That's why the whole "my fun is okay, but your fun will have to go" argument doesn't work for me.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

no....

I mean.

If that option is in the game why bother to play it properly

in the simplest terms.

Fun? That's the reason anyone chooses any playstyle in Elder Scrolls games. That's why the whole "my fun is okay, but your fun will have to go" argument doesn't work for me.

That's not what I'm trying to say...

I'm saying that the fact the game is breakable takes away any point of playing the game without those abilities. Why would you make it harder for youself?

I don't think you really getting what I'm saying so we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Kahunaburger]

no....

I mean.

If that option is in the game why bother to play it properly

in the simplest terms.

Fun? That's the reason anyone chooses any playstyle in Elder Scrolls games. That's why the whole "my fun is okay, but your fun will have to go" argument doesn't work for me.

That's not what I'm trying to say...

I'm saying that the fact the game is breakable takes away any point of playing the game without those abilities. Why would you make it harder for youself?

I don't think you really getting what I'm saying so we will have to agree to disagree.

No, I get what you're saying, I just am not convinced by it. Do you think that a game having an easy difficulty takes away the point of playing the game on a harder difficulty?

 

[Littlee300]

The thing with this is the player will have to hope for the 'big treasure chest' at the end of the dungeon or quest instead of being able to take the occasional jewels of armor. This doesn't sit right with me but the money system leans toward 'collection' instead of 'scoring big'

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

no....

I mean.

If that option is in the game why bother to play it properly

in the simplest terms.

Fun? That's the reason anyone chooses any playstyle in Elder Scrolls games. That's why the whole "my fun is okay, but your fun will have to go" argument doesn't work for me.

That's not what I'm trying to say...

I'm saying that the fact the game is breakable takes away any point of playing the game without those abilities. Why would you make it harder for youself?

I don't think you really getting what I'm saying so we will have to agree to disagree.

No, I get what you're saying, I just am not convinced by it. Do you think that a game having an easy difficulty takes away the point of playing the game on a harder difficulty?

I think that's different from taking a certain skillset.

It would just be nice to have to actually work at your character for them to be really good rather than have someone somewhere use 100% chameleon and have a better char.

:/

Kind of takes away from the experience a bit for me. Probably just me though. :/ and maybe Evil by the sounds of it.