Poll: Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Northover32]

star wars would win, star trek doesnt have any freaking light sabers, and since star wars has cloning technology, and from what i can remember star trek did not? then i think that star wars would out number them, and they have better guns for sure

 

[-Seraph-]

star wars would win, star trek doesnt have any freaking light sabers, and since star wars has cloning technology, and from what i can remember star trek did not? then i think that star wars would out number them, and they have better guns for sure

Star Trek did have something close to cloning. Khan was genetically manipulated along with other characters throughout the star trek mythos. Genetics of that sort are banned in the star trek universe due to the repercussions they have had due the that sort of stuff.

 

[chekt]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Clone

Um yea, you can clone in Star Trek.

 

[chekt]

star wars would win, star trek doesnt have any freaking light sabers, and since star wars has cloning technology, and from what i can remember star trek did not? then i think that star wars would out number them, and they have better guns for sure

The lightsaber = win arguments make this seem more like a popularity contest than an actual argument.

 

[Mr. Payne]

Star wars=han solo=Harison Ford=win... but its a tough choice, william shatner is still pretty cool.

 

[Elim Garak]

Three things... Star Wars Ships outmass Star Trek ships in every class.

So do garbage scows vs. torpedo boats. Mass doesn't mean much - level and type of technology does.

Star Trek includes their fighters as Capital ships... I would say a Super Star Destroyer with a full compliment of X-wings (144 plus over 6 squadrons of bombers) would decimate 3/4 of the federation before being attrited to death.

Not so much. SW ship shields are rather pathetic - they rely on weight of metal for protection. In the Thrawn trilogy an SD had huge trouble even being close to a star. ST ships have shields that allow them to enter the corona of a star. And their hulls are durable enough to survive 12000 degree temperatures (canon).

Of course, when you concider the fact that the Empire and New Republic fielded over 1500 Star Destroyers, with a complement of 8 total squadrons, the Federatin starts taking massive damage quickly... StarDestroyer.net did a fan fic where they objectively compared weapons...

LOL, those idiots? Don't get me started. The only thing that the Empire would be better at is strategically, due to their faster hyperdrive. And that is only against the Federation - if you include one of dozens of more powerful races, it would all be over for the Imps.

Photon Torpedoes are simply balls of light similar to a phaser

Eeeegh. Wrong. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_torpedo

whereas a proton torpedo IS a Nuclear Weapon, estimated in the 50 KT range... I figure a salvo of 24 from ONE squadron of x-wings would pretty much ruin the Enterprise.

How do you figure that? We have no numbers (hard or otherwise) on the yield of a proton torpedo. Not to mention that since any gangster can obtain proton torpedoes in the SW universe, and yet most cities are not nuclear holes in the ground (plus dozens of examples from the books - let me know if you want page numbers) they don't appear to be even in the kiloton range.

Then we have the Eclipse I and II Star Destroyers, over 20 KM long, each, and each equipped with a superlaser capable of cracking a planet's crust, or target ships as small as large freighters. The Borg would be obliterated by continued blasts from it.

Again, not so much. Scenario - one of these SSDs enters encounters a Borg cube. Destroys it in one shot. An hour later, all contact with one deck is lost. Two hours later, power fluctuations are all over the place. 1 day later - meet an all new, improved Borg SSD. Although they would probably redesign it eventually - cut it up into tactical cubes.

You do know that the Borg have tactical battle cubes, right? What we've seen so far are basically Borg minivans.

There is no adaptation for surviving a blast that powerful. Star Wars would win by default of faster than light travel, allowing them to harass a planet for hours before a Federation ship leaving from the same location could arrive.

I will give you this one. SW does have superior FTL drive - but only compared to the Feds (and many other races). There are some that are much better. Borg have transwarp conduits, for example - you can go across the galaxy in minutes.

But, The Executor was escorted by no less than 20 Star Destroyers and 1000s of TIE fighters... Bye-bye Federation.

Standard weapon arrays for Star Wars ships:

Executor Class Star Destroyer:

Over 1000 Turbolaser Batteries
Over 1000 Ion Cannon Batteries
Over 1000 Missile and Torpedo Tubes

Average weapon speed - less than 1 km/s. ST average weapon speed? Slightly below light speed for phasers, I think about 10-50% light speed for photon torpedoes. Even if we accept the psychotic power values that Curtis Saxton quotes in his books (despite all the evidence to the contrary) that is still not a sure win, just because of the tactical effectiveness of the weapons.

3 Shield Generators capable of withstanding over 140 Proton torpedo impacts before failing

Which is equivalent to what? 1 kiloton alltogether? Two?

Can anything in the Federation arsenal even come close to a Star Destroyer, much less a Super Star Destroyer?

Yup. Soliton wave - capable of destroying planets. Protomatter devices - capable of igniting supernovas. FTL supernovas. Tactical transporter uses. Quantum torpedoes. Omega molecules, although they are outlawed. Cloaking, self-replicating mines.

 

[Elim Garak]

Cloaking technology... Not only does Star Wars have it, they have a way to neutralize it. Have fun with that...

Ah, and they used it like once. Only one type. In a specialized ship. In ST there are at least 2-3 different TYPES of cloaking technologies. SW has 1st generation cloaks. ST has 4th - 5th.

Crystal Grav-field trap detects the artificial gravity required to allow people to remain in place on a ship to locate it despite the cloaking field.

Do they detect subspace fields? Can they detect a ship that is hiding INSIDE of a ship - or a planet? What is their range - a few light seconds at best? What about if the gravity is off? What about if the ship is partially in its own bubble of subspace, out of phase with the universe?

Also, at the +35 year point, lasers are 50% more powerful than they were at the Battle of Yavin.

SW is working on improving their technology - but they have not made any fundamental breakthroughs in at least a hundred years. Hundreds, if you believe the books. The kind of breakthroughs that appear in ST every day.

I blame the Jedi. All that mystical hocus pocus is no match for a good nuke. Or nanoprobes. Or transporters. Or phasers set to wide beam. Etc.

 

[Elim Garak]

Eh? Why the hell are people saying that tech in 'wars is more advanced that it is in 'trek?

Because Wars had that level of tech a millenia ago. Trek still doesn't have cloning.

Teleporters are like toys against the might of the Dark Side.

Ah, so they regressed because of pathetic religious ideas? Is that why all their droids look like tin cans? Why they don't use transporters? Or replicators? Or nanotechnology? Or decent computer systems? Or biotechnology? Or decent holograms?

 

[TheGhostOfSin]

SNIP
capable of igniting supernovas...

Thats the most bullshit thing I've ever heard.

 

[Ares Tyr]

The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Nevermind short of, they are Gods it's just that only half of them are man enough to admit it.

Gods don't count. They're Gods. They don't have to work for power, they are born with it. That's racial elitism, and I won't stand for it.

They were originally organic beings but evolved to the point where they were able to trans mutate themselves into an energy state. Achieving the highest level of evolution hence giving them god like powers. The only things they have not been known to be able to do are time manipulation, and randomly creating life, everything else is fair game with them.

I'm gonna sing the "Doesn't count" song to the tune of "Dancing in the Rain" still.

 

[Elim Garak]

All the borg would have to do is capture one empire ship and they'd have most of the information to counter it.

But they can't. See Deflectors.

What about deflectors? Borg can transport through shields. Plus the SW shields would have to have openings by their very nature - they still use reaction drives.

Kirk : "Get...me...the Empire.........onscreennowSulu."
Darth: *wheeze* "So, we meet again."
Kirk : "Listen...you......evilimperial...commander, I demand...*choke**cough* World....fading...breath...stopping..."
Darth : "Apology accepted, Admiral Kirk."

Tie Fighter just pwned the Enterprise.

Channel closed, ship cloaked, TIE fighter destroyed. One man is not a ship.

 

[chekt]

Also, the reason that is isn't Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Stargate is that Stargate and Star Trek both have a god race.

 

[Elim Garak]

Since nobody bothered to read the link provided by Darth Mobius, I'm gonna make some copypasta:


So - one single star destroyer would probably be able to pwn all of the federation before it is even seen.

That's Curtis Saxton. The guy doesn't know what he is talking about - he is taking the maximum official examples, and ignores the canon examples of the opposite. Canon beats official every time.

Furthermore, his numbers do not take into account the logical impossibilities of these statements. If any thug could get a multi-megaton nuke, why aren't there more radioactive craters all over the place? Why are so many weapons examples so pathetic?

 

[Elim Garak]

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

the star destroyer with all it's powerful guns would be giving the enterprise a nice massage but wouldn't be a threat in the least

*wheeze* Ramming Speed, Admiral.
Are you sure Lord Vader?
I have studied their reactors. Were one to detonate on the front of the deflektors, they wouldn't even drop for a second.*wheeze* Especially since their Commander is now dead.
Right away, Lord Vader.

1/2 hour later - nothing happens. The SSD is still slooooowly approaching Enterprise. People in 10-forward are pointing and laughing. At the last moment, Enterprise activates maneuvering thrusters and scoots out of the way, firing a photon torpedo up the center engine of the SSD (IE up the ass). Bye-bye asthma guy.

 

[chekt]

The holograms in Star Trek are crazy. They can kill people, if you turn the safety thing off. The ones in Star Wars are one color, and all static-y.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

LIGHTSABRES!!! Yes, lightsabers can deflect phasers, becuse the only two things they cannote defend against are cortosis and other lightsaber blades

You know I always wondered this, but why didn't they just turn cortosis into a bullet?

 

[chekt]

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

the star destroyer with all it's powerful guns would be giving the enterprise a nice massage but wouldn't be a threat in the least

*wheeze* Ramming Speed, Admiral.
Are you sure Lord Vader?
I have studied their reactors. Were one to detonate on the front of the deflektors, they wouldn't even drop for a second.*wheeze* Especially since their Commander is now dead.
Right away, Lord Vader.

1/2 hour later - nothing happens. The SSD is still slooooowly approaching Enterprise. People in 10-forward are pointing and laughing. At the last moment, Enterprise activates maneuvering thrusters and scoots out of the way, firing a photon torpedo up the center engine of the SSD (IE up the ass). Bye-bye asthma guy.

Garak, we both know that that wouldn't happen if the Star Destroyer had it's shields up.

Also, Garak is one of the coolest people on DS9, next to Odo.

 

[chekt]

LIGHTSABRES!!! Yes, lightsabers can deflect phasers, becuse the only two things they cannote defend against are cortosis and other lightsaber blades

You know I always wondered this, but why didn't they just turn cortosis into a bullet?

Because if they did that, then Jedi wouldn't be able to deflect it with their lightsabers.

EDIT: And what the person below me said.

 

[Elim Garak]

Glad that someone noticed the CANON OUTPUT for each weapons discharge.

Umm... Canon? Since when? Where is it shown? Or do you mean Cannon?

The Star Wars lasers are what, over 100 Million times more powerful than phasers?

Maybe - if you ignore a ton of other evidence, just as circumstantial. They are also just as tactically effective as rocks.

So yeah, it would be a heavy route, based on the CANON outputs (Canon is based on what Gene Rodenberry or George Lucas declare is the official output,

No, canon means the movies. And the movie novelizations where they do not contradict the movies. Books are official. The rest is crap.

Did I miss a scene in the movies where the power output of a TL was mentioned in the dialog somewhere?

so you can't start making up numbers... Besides, give me a cutting laser and a fast enough ship, I will just shoot the Enterprise with said cutting laser until it's shields go down, while running JUST out of range of their phasers.)

You lost me dude.

1. Your ship would need to go at least 0.5 c in normal space - no such ships in SW.
2. Cutting laser? You do realize how warp drive works, right? Bends space-time, etc?
3. Enterprise once spent several hours in the corona of a star. Is your laser more powerful?
4. Outrun phasers? They travel pretty much at c. Depends on the phasers. There are other weapons. Transporters. Torpedoes.

Oh yeah, and notice the range between the ships fighting... For Star Wars lasers to be effective at 20,000 Kilometers,

Umm... Evidence? In the trilogy the TL bolts seem to travel at a few km/s at most. I've yet to see a battle in SW where it takes more than a few seconds for one of those beams to get to the enemy ship.

they would have to be a hell of a lot more powerful than phasers which only reach 10 kilometers...

Wrong again, dude. Even if we ignore the technical manuals, there are several cases where ships fire from orbit. A geostationary orbit is 38000 km for an M-class planet.