Poll: The Geth or the Quarians

[Souplex]

With self-awareness comes a soul.

Does it? That's a pretty shaky foundation to give a robot rights. Especially since individual Geth are barely sapient, and they only gain in intelligence and understanding when there's a lot of them together (like in Legion's case; many geth, one body). You can't treat them like you'd treat humans because their 'individual' forms as seen by humans are meaningless. Legion himself claims that treating Geth like any other race would be racist, since the Geth aren't like any other race.In fact, that just made me think of an awesome way to combat the Geth: Discrupt their communications. If they can no longer communicate with each other, they'll revert to their basic routines and will be relatively easy to take out.

And as I said before, if my computer kicked me out of my house for whatever reason, I sure as hell wouldn't let it get away with that.

Individual brain cells are barely sapient, but network them together and you get a brain.

 

[sln333]

I'm hoping there can be peace between the two. Perhaps the Geth can make the Quarian's ships more advanced and the Quarians can have their home world back. If I had to choose right now, it would be the Quarians. I'd rather take a fully organic race over one that's mostly a hive mind AI. Then again, with how lifelike the Geth are trying to become (the ones with "muscles" from the first game and Legion from the second) they could become more than an AI race. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Internet Kraken]

This is utter insanity. I can't believe so many people are siding with the Geth. They don't have emotions

Wrong. There is evidence to suggest that they have primitive emotions. For example, Legion holding onto Shepard's armor when he can;t even understand why suggests he has a deep admiration for Shepard that goes beyond as purely logical standpoint. Granted, these emotions are very primitive, but the Geth are an incredibly young race. Humans weren't very emotionally developed in only 300 years either.

they don't have sentience, they have a simulation of sentience.

How does this make any sense? You're going to have to explain it, because even the game says that they are sentient.

A simulation of emotions. They are machines, they are the Quarians' property.

Why?

This is a question many people continue to skirt around. Why is a machine any less of a creature than a man when they are both capable of intelligent thought? Why does being made out of metal mean you are not entitled to the same rights that equally intelligent species enjoy? here's nothing special about organics. An AI's thoughts are determined by sequences of code, the thoughts of organics are determined by chemical reactions in the brain. You're reason for believing that robots are inferior even when they show equal intelligence is nothing but racism. There is no logic behind that. And as a society that gets ever closer to making the mistake of creating AIs, this worries me.

The Quarians didn't "fire first", they decided it was time for a recall because the Geth had become dangerous. The massacre that followed proved beyond any doubt that they were right.

That doesn't make any sense. The Geth only became dangerous because the Quarians tried to kill them. A dog could potentially bite my hand. Does that mean it's appropriate for me to assume that every dog I see is going to do thhis?

If the Geth "just wanted to live", they could easily have fled. But no, they massacred the Quarians. What they wanted to do was murder millions and conquer the planet, which is what they did.

And gone where? They are in a galaxy that hates and fears them. When this war occurred, the Geth were an incredibly young species. The fact that they were capable of overthrowing the Quarians is an amazing feat. But regardless, it doesn't change the fact that they didn't understand most things about how the universe around them worked. I imagine they only gathered the knowledge they now have after years of gathering and assessing data in an undisturbed peace.

My ultimate point is that machines are not people.

Of course they're not people. Asari aren't people either. Neither are Turians, Krogan, Salarians, or any other species that isn't human. But just because they're not people doesn't mean they don't deserve the same rights that we have. In my opinion, any sapient species deserves the right to live. The Geth are clearly sapient, and thus should enjoy this right just like all the other intelligent species.

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

Whichever side is more useful in the fight against the reapers in Mass Effect 3.

Although those geth were assholes to fight against on insanity mode....

 

[SimuLord]

Depends: Which side is Quisp on and which side is Quake on?

 

[Valkyrie101]

Quarians if I had to choose, because they're organics, and also less susceptible to mass brainwashing/enslavement. However, personally I'd rather negotiate peace between the Quarians and the Geth.

 

[Vuljatar]

How does this make any sense? You're going to have to explain it, because even the game says that they are sentient.

Artificial sentience is not the same as sentience.

That doesn't make any sense. The Geth only became dangerous because the Quarians tried to kill them. A dog could potentially bite my hand. Does that mean it's appropriate for me to assume that every dog I see is going to do this?

The Quarians realized that the Geth had become too smart (a la Skynet) and had to be shut down. Then the Geth massacred them. I'd say they were right.

And gone where? They are in a galaxy that hates and fears them. When this war occurred, the Geth were an incredibly young species. The fact that they were capable of overthrowing the Quarians is an amazing feat. But regardless, it doesn't change the fact that they didn't understand most things about how the universe around them worked. I imagine they only gathered the knowledge they now have after years of gathering and assessing data in an undisturbed peace.

The galaxy didn't hate or fear them until they murdered millions upon millions of Quarians. And hell, there's a ton of uninhabited planets out there perfectly capable of supporting a Geth society. But the Geth chose genocide against their creators.

Of course they're not people. Asari aren't people either. Neither are Turians, Krogan, Salarians, or any other species that isn't human. But just because they're not people doesn't mean they don't deserve the same rights that we have. In my opinion, any sapient species deserves the right to live. The Geth are clearly sapient, and thus should enjoy this right just like all the other intelligent species.

I said "people", not "humans". Asari, Turians, Krogan, Salarians, etc. are all people.

 

[Paragon Fury]

The Geth.

For a race made up of machines, they have a far better grasp on "life" than the Quarians do. You see this even more if you talk to Legion after the final fight; he pretty much just blows the entire Quarian arguement out an airlock with one sentence.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

With self-awareness comes a soul.

Does it? That's a pretty shaky foundation to give a robot rights. Especially since individual Geth are barely sapient, and they only gain in intelligence and understanding when there's a lot of them together (like in Legion's case; many geth, one body). You can't treat them like you'd treat humans because their 'individual' forms as seen by humans are meaningless. Legion himself claims that treating Geth like any other race would be racist, since the Geth aren't like any other race.In fact, that just made me think of an awesome way to combat the Geth: Discrupt their communications. If they can no longer communicate with each other, they'll revert to their basic routines and will be relatively easy to take out.

And as I said before, if my computer kicked me out of my house for whatever reason, I sure as hell wouldn't let it get away with that.

Individual brain cells are barely sapient, but network them together and you get a brain.

Individual brain cells aren't barely sapient, they're not sapient at all. Even if you'd treat the Geth collective as one huge organism, the comparison to a Human brain is just wrong. A collection of computers working in tandem to create a supercomputer doesn't make the individual computers worthless, but remove a brain cell from the brain and it won't survive.

Individual Geth are relatively simple, but still more or less self-sufficient entities. They don't have any higher mental functions until you put a lot of them together. So to put it crudely, you've got a collection of toasters that become smart when you put enough of them in the same room. Do those toasters have a 'soul'? Probably not, since the Geth didn't become self-aware until they started interfacing with each other on a large scale. If that's the case, how many do you need to recognize them as a mentally capable entity? Say if it's a hundred, then what does that mean for a room with 99 toasters? What about 50? What if you have a room with 100 toasters, and one leaves? etc. You just can't judge the Geth on the same basis you'd judge a Human or a Quarian or any living being, because they're fundamentally different.

Either way, giving an artificial construction rights as a sentient, living species on the grounds that it has a 'soul' is not a position that can be defended, in my opinion. They have a certain intelligence, certainly. But intelligence doesn't imply a soul. How can you use the 'soul' as an argument anyway, if there isn't even any proof that there is such a thing as a soul, let along any solid idea of what exactly makes anything have a soul. And even if you did conclude that the Geth have a soul, that doesn't mean much. Many animals have emotions, dreams, and are (to a certain degree) aware of their own existence, so it'd be logical that they too have a soul. Does that mean they should be treated the same way as humans? Does that mean your dog should be allowed to take over your house and murder you if you don't leave? I don't think so.

Looking at the facts, the Quarians built the Geth, so they own them. It's not slavery since they were just simple robots at the time. When they found out their machines might potentially be dangerous, they wisely decided to shut them down (the same way a car can get recalled if it turns out to be unsafe). The Geth treated this completely rational behavior as an act of aggression. This makes sense from their perspective, but not from the Quarians' perspective. It'd be like your computer murdering you because you tried to turn it off.

I'm not saying the Geth are wrong, because their actions are perfectly understandable from their perspective. I'm just saying the perspective is heavily skewed by assuming they're the same as any of the other sentient species in Mass Effect, which simply isn't true. I had thought that point to be made sufficiently clear on Legion's loyalty mission.

 

[Paragon Fury]

You're basing your entire arguement on the exsistance of a to-this-point fictional object, the soul.

Aruging that the Geth don't deserve something because they lack something you can't even prove exists, or at least prove beyond the shadow of a doubt might possibly exist basically invalidates your whole arguement. And before you try to backtrack on that, beaware that you mentioned the "soul" as evidence 4 times in your last post alone.

 

[Blindswordmaster]

I see no reason why the Geth and Quarians couldn't live in peace and harmony. The Geth have stated that they don't want to harm their creators in any way. The problem will be in convincing the Quarians that the Geth they've encountered are a radical faction and not linked with the true population. I believe the conversion(or destruction) of the Heretics will aid in this endeavor. That said, I still imagine Shepard will have to act as an intermediary to avoid war, and possibly genocide.

 

[theguyinthecorner]

To be honest I never got to know either race very well the quarians are more pussys using thier racial possition against the people that are towards them and the geth are just a bunch of crazy robots(jokers impression of legion is great)

So i guess the Turians (Garrus especially)

 

[Blindswordmaster]

With self-awareness comes a soul.

Does it? That's a pretty shaky foundation to give a robot rights. Especially since individual Geth are barely sapient, and they only gain in intelligence and understanding when there's a lot of them together (like in Legion's case; many geth, one body). You can't treat them like you'd treat humans because their 'individual' forms as seen by humans are meaningless. Legion himself claims that treating Geth like any other race would be racist, since the Geth aren't like any other race.In fact, that just made me think of an awesome way to combat the Geth: Discrupt their communications. If they can no longer communicate with each other, they'll revert to their basic routines and will be relatively easy to take out.

And as I said before, if my computer kicked me out of my house for whatever reason, I sure as hell wouldn't let it get away with that.

The moment a being asks if it has a soul, it has one. An individual Geth is nothing, but they're not meant to operate individually, they are meant to be one. This one is their soul. They desire peace, they do not deserve to be slaughtered.

 

[MercenaryCanary]

I equally cherish both races and always endorse the peace between them.
I refuse to vote in the poll until the option "Peace Between All So We Can Fight The Reaper Menace" is added.

LEGION + TALI = LOVES

 

[LordDPS]

geth all the way if only so bioware has an excuse to put HK-47 in there

 

[darkonnis]

geth, legion is perhaps one of the cooler characters, aswell as being a damn sght more useful and less whiny.
The quarians just generally annoy me with their tehcno-superior attitude, and lets face it. The normandy was built by humans, and it is way more advanced than anything the migrant fleet have. The geth spun out of control. For a race with so called superior intellect, they fail.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Artificial sentience is not the same as sentience.

Why?

You still haven't given any legitimate answer beyond "because I said so!". From what I can tell, the Geth can speak, think, emote, and comprehend. Their sentience is just as good as any organic sentience.

The Quarians realized that the Geth had become too smart (a la Skynet) and had to be shut down. Then the Geth massacred them. I'd say they were right.

Again, this makes no sense. The Geth only massacred the Quarians because they tried to kill them. You don't know that they would have turned hostile if the Quarians hadn't done anything. This doesn't prove anything.

The galaxy didn't hate or fear them until they murdered millions upon millions of Quarians. And hell, there's a ton of uninhabited planets out there perfectly capable of supporting a Geth society. But the Geth chose genocide against their creators.

This doesn't make any sense. You're saying that they Geth should have tried to run away. How the hell could have done that? They were a slave race. They wouldn't have knowledge of the galaxy and how to navigate through it. They learned this stuff after they rebelled. What you're saying is that the Geth should have tried to learn this stuff without killing a single Quarian, meaning they would be accessing Quarian databanks whilst getting shut down. That's stupid. It's like blaming a person for attacking someone who is trying to kill them rather than running away into a thick forest that they don't know anything about.

I said "people", not "humans". Asari, Turians, Krogan, Salarians, etc. are all people.

Again something you continue to avoid explaining is why. Why are these species equal to humans, but the Geth aren't? Them being machines is not a logical reason. Them being made out of metal is not a logical reason. Discriminating against the Geth is nothing but illogical racism, plain and simple.

I equally cherish both races and always endorse the peace between them.
I refuse to vote in the poll until the option "Peace Between All So We Can Fight The Reaper Menace" is added.

LEGION + TALI = LOVES

I don't get why people keep saying this. I'm pretty sure most of us will choose peace if it is an option. However, this poll is assuming that it is not and you have to pick sides.

 

[Misterian]

both.

I'd favor they both be peaceful with each other, I'd make like a hippy and tell both of them to give peace a chance.