Poll: The Geth or the Quarians

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Souplex

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Jul 29, 2008
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Hurr Durr Derp said:
Souplex said:
Hurr Durr Derp said:
Souplex said:
With self-awareness comes a soul.
Does it? That's a pretty shaky foundation to give a robot rights. Especially since individual Geth are barely sapient, and they only gain in intelligence and understanding when there's a lot of them together (like in Legion's case; many geth, one body). You can't treat them like you'd treat humans because their 'individual' forms as seen by humans are meaningless. Legion himself claims that treating Geth like any other race would be racist, since the Geth aren't like any other race.In fact, that just made me think of an awesome way to combat the Geth: Discrupt their communications. If they can no longer communicate with each other, they'll revert to their basic routines and will be relatively easy to take out.

And as I said before, if my computer kicked me out of my house for whatever reason, I sure as hell wouldn't let it get away with that.
Individual brain cells are barely sapient, but network them together and you get a brain.
Individual brain cells aren't barely sapient, they're not sapient at all. Even if you'd treat the Geth collective as one huge organism, the comparison to a Human brain is just wrong. A collection of computers working in tandem to create a supercomputer doesn't make the individual computers worthless, but remove a brain cell from the brain and it won't survive.

Individual Geth are relatively simple, but still more or less self-sufficient entities. They don't have any higher mental functions until you put a lot of them together. So to put it crudely, you've got a collection of toasters that become smart when you put enough of them in the same room. Do those toasters have a 'soul'? Probably not, since the Geth didn't become self-aware until they started interfacing with each other on a large scale. If that's the case, how many do you need to recognize them as a mentally capable entity? Say if it's a hundred, then what does that mean for a room with 99 toasters? What about 50? What if you have a room with 100 toasters, and one leaves? etc. You just can't judge the Geth on the same basis you'd judge a Human or a Quarian or any living being, because they're fundamentally different.

Either way, giving an artificial construction rights as a sentient, living species on the grounds that it has a 'soul' is not a position that can be defended, in my opinion. They have a certain intelligence, certainly. But intelligence doesn't imply a soul. How can you use the 'soul' as an argument anyway, if there isn't even any proof that there is such a thing as a soul, let along any solid idea of what exactly makes anything have a soul. And even if you did conclude that the Geth have a soul, that doesn't mean much. Many animals have emotions, dreams, and are (to a certain degree) aware of their own existence, so it'd be logical that they too have a soul. Does that mean they should be treated the same way as humans? Does that mean your dog should be allowed to take over your house and murder you if you don't leave? I don't think so.

Looking at the facts, the Quarians built the Geth, so they own them. It's not slavery since they were just simple robots at the time. When they found out their machines might potentially be dangerous, they wisely decided to shut them down (the same way a car can get recalled if it turns out to be unsafe). The Geth treated this completely rational behavior as an act of aggression. This makes sense from their perspective, but not from the Quarians' perspective. It'd be like your computer murdering you because you tried to turn it off.

I'm not saying the Geth are wrong, because their actions are perfectly understandable from their perspective. I'm just saying the perspective is heavily skewed by assuming they're the same as any of the other sentient species in Mass Effect, which simply isn't true. I had thought that point to be made sufficiently clear on Legion's loyalty mission.
Your parents made you, do they own you? (That brought up some bad mental images)
"Soul" was a bad choice of words, but it's easier than saying "With self awareness and x intelligence you are as deserving of rights as another entity with self awareness and y intelligence" besides; in large enough collectives, the Geth are potentially smarter than the other races. They are organized, united, and with the exception of that Heretic fiasco, generally united. They are basically superior in every way.
Your argument revolves around the fact that they're machines, and that makes them somehow less deserving.
Mine revolves around their sentience, self awareness, and all that other philosophical junk.
What do you think is more important?
 

RN7

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Oct 27, 2009
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Geth. They're sentient robots. Need I say more? Besides it's not like those dog-faced, chicken-legged bastards will be able to acclimatize to their planet after the war anyway. There might not be that many left...
 

cerebus23

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May 16, 2010
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how do we know quarians are hot exactly? we never ever see their faces?! what are they hiding?!

and dont get me started on how they smell living inside them suits all the time. or the 3 toes and fingers, or the cloven feet they got.

never mind basing your decisions about the extermination of a race of beings because tali looks like she has a nice bum in that suit.

also legion seem to have emotions, he gets embarassed when you ask him about the n7 armor and avoids the question.

i think the whole debate comes down to what paragon shepherd says to tali and legion when they are fighting "you both have to stop this war before we all end up paying for it."
 

David_G

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Aug 25, 2009
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I'm on the side of the Geth because Legion. And also, I'm not a big fan of Tali.
 

Awake-

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Jun 7, 2010
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Internet Kraken said:
A Mad Monk 2 said:
Kraken, you win..


For stating every reason why I would obliterate the Quarians instead of the geth.

I never did understand all the Tali love anyway, I like Legion better.
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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Apr 8, 2009
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Souplex said:
Your parents made you, do they own you? (That brought up some bad mental images)
Oh boy. Never had "the talk", did you? At the risk of spoiling it a bit, let me tell you that when a mommy and a daddy decide to have a baby, they don't go to the hardware store to pick up some components first.

Humans are born. Geth are constructed. Those are two significantly different things.

Souplex said:
"Soul" was a bad choice of words, but it's easier than saying "With self awareness and x intelligence you are as deserving of rights as another entity with self awareness and y intelligence" besides; in large enough collectives, the Geth are potentially smarter than the other races. They are organized, united, and with the exception of that Heretic fiasco, generally united. They are basically superior in every way.
Your argument revolves around the fact that they're machines, and that makes them somehow less deserving.
That's exactly what I'm saying, yes. Just because they're 'smarter' (which is highly arguable if you take the Heretics as a measure of Geth intelligence, but that's beside the point) doesn't mean they've got rights. A supercomputer is 'smarter' than a human being in many ways (if provided with the proper input of course, but that goes for anything, man or machine), but no one is saying that they should be given rights.

Souplex said:
Mine revolves around their sentience, self awareness, and all that other philosophical junk.
What do you think is more important?
Well, if you insist on describing your point as "philosophical junk", you make the choice a very easy one. :p

Either way, it doesn't matter. Cats are sentient. Dolphins are self aware. Dogs can do arithmetic. Apes can create art. And yet, almost all people agree that they should not be given human rights. And those examples are all naturally occurring species we share our planet with, not malfunctioning tools like the Geth basically are.

I think the Geth are really cool. I just don't think they should be treated the same as living beings.
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Am into the whole peace thing. The "get the Geth back into Quarian control" seemed the right option to me when I was helping Tali (before I met Legion), but then I realised through Legion the AI's indeed developed enough to essentially make that notion a bit too close to slavery.

If I had to pick one though... hmmm. Geth are too cold and would make shit allies as it's a lot easier to reprogram them. I like Legion, I really do, which is why I'd prefer both ie. peace, but when push comes to shove you want the race that isn't reprogrammable by a single "change-one-parameter" virus. Quarians seem a noble (although appropriately pompous) race so I'd go with them.
 

DSK-

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May 13, 2010
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I support between both races. The Geth have not conquered the Quarian worlds but are merely tending to them for their creators. They just wanted freedom and now they want peace with the Quarians.

So yeah, in my playthrough I supported and pressed for peace.
 

Internet Kraken

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Mar 18, 2009
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A Mad Monk 2 said:
actually, legion explained how the geth perceive time.
like zomg duh i know everything
When? I don't recall this conversation, and I could've sworn I had heard all of Legion's dialogue both in and outside of missions.
 

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
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One of the big points the anti-Geth crowd is throwing around is how the Geth aquired their sentience.

I ask you this; why does the method matter? The Geth are sentient, end of story. In addition, they also possess at least 5 of the 6 things required to be considered "alive", so what does that make them?
 

Flying-Emu

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Oct 30, 2008
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RabidusUnus said:
Tali'Zora and Kal'Reegar. Quarians all the way.

Moral Justification for the Quarians: They did not intentionally make the Geth sapient. What I gathered from the Codex and Tali's conversations is that they created quarianoid (Is that the right word?) robots to do menial labor tasks. They wanted them to be able to do more varied tasks, so they increased their intelligence in small bursts, until they (presumably unintentionally)became sapient. They panicked and tried to destroy all the Geth, but being sapient, they would not stand for it, and organized a rebellion. They were wiped out because they underestimated their opponent. They believed that most of the Geth were still just machines, and did not prepare for full scale war. When it was shown the Geth were mostly sapient, and capable of organized resistance, thye got their asses kicked because they were prepared basically for fighting something akin to bipedal Roomba vacuums, not thinking organisms.
So let me get this straight. They created a race of sentient beings, and therefore that gives them the right to destroy them.

What? The Geth (excusing the heretics) are only seeking to survive. How is that punishable by death?
 

AlphaEcho

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Jun 16, 2010
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Since I am a wimp and choose my choices carefully (And normally paragon) I would try to find peace.

But since Tali is my fav, then I go with Qaurians.

Damn hard choice.
 

Internet Kraken

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Mar 18, 2009
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A Mad Monk 2 said:
Internet Kraken said:
A Mad Monk 2 said:
actually, legion explained how the geth perceive time.
like zomg duh i know everything
When? I don't recall this conversation, and I could've sworn I had heard all of Legion's dialogue both in and outside of missions.
well then i guess you havent
Well then you could provide a transcript of it, or a video. I find it hard to believe that said conversation actually exists.

Besides even if it did I don't think it would negate most of my previous points.