Poll: Unschooling: Parenting at it's worst

[Inmate13]

If everyone was "unschooled" we'd lose any form of advanced science that involved anything more than a linear function.

My goodness I went to the website

But, what about math?

It's easy to see how children can learn many things without using traditional, formal methods of teaching, but many people see math as a huge stumbling block, mainly, because most of us have learned to hate math because of the way it was taught in school. There are a great many ways to encounter math in the real world. Geometry can be found in quilt making, algebra in painting a room. Shifting perspectives, from textbooks to the real world is sometimes difficult, but math that is actually used is math truly learned.

Where will the calculus come from! Nooo!

Calculus will come from the model rocket building course

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Spoiler: My response to Acalla

Snip

Read my latest post. Not this one, the other one.

Also not sure doing away with grades is the best thing to do. You get graded in life all the time at work.

You're not supposed to be graded you're supposed to LEARN. School is not work. You're not encouraging students to learn by setting a deadline and threatening them that if they don't learn you'll expel them, you're just forcing the ones who care to memorize what they have to until they are graded and then forget everything since they don't consider it important anymore.

I see people now who cannot handle just doing their job. They want a gold star every time they do something they are SUPPOSE to do.

Ditto

Plus, just doing something you like, doesn't mean you are going to be good at it. It can help... but doing something you didn't think you would like, and then finding out you excel at it does, sometimes, make it a lot more fun.

It's like throwing shit at a wall hoping something sticks.

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Spoiler: My response to Jared

Lets see, resorting to insults, way to back up your point, really shows your intelligence.

I don't remember insulting you but then again I have a bad memory.

Lets see, yes I had a class that taught politics, it was in highschool, a place you are obviously unfamiliar with.

I think it's called social science here. It's like this dump where every moron enters and comes out knowing nothing BUT with a grade stating they passed high school. Yeah, teaching people how the state works is totally interesting because the majority will totally give a fuck.

They can't spell all that well, and need constant practice in vocabulary and sentence structure as well as grammar.....things they get through continuing education.

I'm sorry but can't spell all that way? I don't know about schools in any other country, but here by the time we're in 5th grade we've already moved onto syntax.

Oh really, so you knew your country's entire history by the age of nine? What a smart boy you were. And did you know world history as well? You know, the history of other countries we tend to interact with in a GLOBAL community?

You either didn't read my post or choose to ignore what I said. You are taught the majority of important events that happened in the past decade. Are you taught everything to every last minuscule detail? No. The moment you enter 5th grade and the "complexity" begins if the student does not care then the student will learn jack shit.

Also, FINISH THE GODDAMN QUOTE. I said that kids that young can make little choices, but to decide what to do the rest of their life before they have even hit puberty is a retarded and makes me think YOU were in a special school.

A simple ability to choose which class the student wants to focus on. Yes, I do believe that we should stop treating children like they're our pets.

But hey, if you believe giving children choice at such a young age is bad then how 'bout we give them one right before they enter high school? Teach the current curriculum but stop pressuring the students by giving them grades. That way, students will learn what they want to learn still, but supposedly something will stick when it comes to social studies, history, biology etc.

Yes, forceful education works. Ask your parents and your grandparents.

I asked a lot of people how much they remember from 1st grade to High School. You know how many of them managed to remember anything apart from 1st to 4th? None. Why? Because the majority of crap they studied and worked their assess off to get a good grade was not used when it came to them actually choosing a profession.

Only doing the things you want to do leads to being a spoiled and entitled adult, a waste of a human, with nothing worthwhile to contribute.

Those pesky people enjoying biochemistry. How DARE THEY want to study something they enjoy and eventually contribute to the world by wanting to help people? Or those assholes who enjoy history. HOW FUCKING DARE THEY learn more about our past.

The upside is that that attitude leads to them dying off because they didn't want to go to work and earn money to feed themselves.

Oh, right. That pesky little thing. I mean hell, trying to get work in a profession you enjoy is just fucking retarded 'innit?

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Spoiler: My response to Acalla part 2

Let me see if I understand what you are saying... Before there was public school (in the US), if a child excelled at something, say music, they would be sent to music school.

No. I stated that children, or teens, should be given a choice in regards to what they want to study and to remove the current system which grades students. The bellow quote says it all:

"You're not supposed to be graded based on how good you can memorize crap you're supposed to LEARN. School is not work. You're not encouraging students to learn by setting a deadline and threatening them that if they don't learn you'll expel them, you're just forcing the ones who care to memorize what they have to until they are graded and then forget everything since they don't consider it important anymore."

A system in which learning is encouraged without the need of deadlines is, in my personal opinion, a good system.

I mean, you don't mean that if a 5th grader decides they are done with school and want to go work at taco bell (illegal but for sake of argument), to let them do that?

No. The age of consent is 18 is it not?

Yah, I am saying it made her a good mother... and I didn't say I didn't enjoy the activities. I am saying she pushed me out of my comfort zone and I found out I liked to do something other then play video games and mess around with computers. That is what I am trying to say here. I didn't have the ability to really say I didn't like this or that without trying it out. She helped push me into things. If I didn't like track, I could have quit it, but I tried it first instead of crapping on the idea from the get go.

You do have a point, which is why I've come to the conclusion that it's best if the current curriculum is kept, but grades removed. 8 grades in which you are being teached exactly the same like before, except for the fact that now the pressure of getting good grades is gone. With a system like this in place, students who enjoy a certain class will focus on that class more whilst classes which the student deems uninteresting will still be there and something will eventually "catch on" aka it will allow them to have a wide variety of choices to make before entering high school. I don't know how high school works anywhere else, but here the moment you exit 8th grade depending on your grades you can enter a certain type of "class". For e.g. there's social studies, biochemistry, literature etc. The problem here is that you do not enter those classes based on how well you did in chemistry, literature etc, you enter them based on how well you did overall. Removing grades means the child can focus on what he wants and enters what class he wants in high school without him being restrained.

I never would want my child to become a lawyer or a doctor if they did not want those things. But, likewise, I am not going to support them to becoming a bum (granted we don't have full control over that). I would argue that not forcing at least one class of chemistry, biology and physics could be a problem too. How will they know they don't like them if they don't try them?

Ditto.

I just don't think 5th grade is the time to decide these things. Maybe later, say 9th or 10th grade? I just think 5th grade is too young. But, going back to your original post, I really thought you meant to let a 5th grader walk away from education completely, if that is what they wanted.

You are again correct. 8th grade or so seems more appropiate to continue or quit entirely.

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[StarofAzura]

I went to public school. That didn't work, I homeschooled. My mother didn't have time to homeschool, so I went into private school, then back into public school.

Having experienced just about every kind of schooling, barring boarding and correspondence school, I'd have to say that the entire fucking system is broken. Standing in front of a group of kids blah blah blahing at them about things they couldn't care less about does not learning make.

Homeschooling is by far the best option; you've got the option to learn at your own pace and you don't have to sit through lessons all day that you're ultimately going to forget. You can learn about what you want to learn about without having to worry about anyone catching up or getting too far ahead.

For the people concerned about socialization - children don't just have to socialize at school. There are churches, sports teams, and various other social groups that you can use to help your child learn how to deal with others socially; it seems more healthy to me, anyway, because you learn how to deal with different age groups instead of endless hordes of one age group.

As someone who has learned more in the outside world than I've ever learned in school, I plan on implementing this with my children for a time.

 

[ParkourMcGhee]

Where is the option "this IS outlawed"... in England at least

Trusting kids to find their own interrests? This is like letting squaddies out for a night no bars hold.

I don't see this working. At all. Anywhere.

 

[Flames66]

If everyone was "unschooled" we'd lose any form of advanced science that involved anything more than a linear function.

My goodness I went to the website

But, what about math?

It's easy to see how children can learn many things without using traditional, formal methods of teaching, but many people see math as a huge stumbling block, mainly, because most of us have learned to hate math because of the way it was taught in school. There are a great many ways to encounter math in the real world. Geometry can be found in quilt making, algebra in painting a room. Shifting perspectives, from textbooks to the real world is sometimes difficult, but math that is actually used is math truly learned.

Where will the calculus come from! Nooo!

Calculus will come from the model rocket building course

Calculus is not required for anything unless you want to be a scientist or a programmer. Schooling should be about teaching skills that are actually useful to everyone. That is what unschoolers are trying to achieve.

Where is the option "this IS outlawed"... in England at least

Trusting kids to find their own interrests? This is like letting squaddies out for a night no bars hold.

I don't see this working. At all. Anywhere.

Home schooling is perfectly legal in the UK. I was home schooled until year 9.

 

[Eicha]

Judging by the rubbish education Britain has these days, perhaps this home-schooling malarky might just work out. But home-schooling, like school itself is only as good as the teacher giving the lessons.

I'd have to disagree on your last point. Schooling can only be as good as the retarded controlling money sucking administration will allow the teachers to be. My mom is a special ed teacher and she and all her peers treated like morons. They're mandated to use a 'program' for reading, by using a manual, to teach kids to read. And the kids have a par by which they must test. They treat the kids like cattle. Then again, I'm in California. We're more concerened with operation more state prisons than any other state or country rather than give two shits about the educational system. Hooray for society.

On topic, its a very good idea IN THEORY. But people are too dumb to implement it.

It seems maybe the problem doesn't so much lie with the teachers, then perhaps government one-size-fits-all education system. But then again, I can only speak of the British system having no idea how the American system works. Though from what you said the two systems are quite similar. (Britain's program is called something like the "National Curriculum")

But I have to admit, I really liked the last line of your post.

Why thank you.

Well, we have No Child Left Behind. Which, from what I gather, is a system where every school year students in elementary schools are tested via standardized tests to chart their 'progress.' And, if the students don't meet the quota the school is penalized. This is something that's administered to kids as young as first grade, who don't give a crap about taking a standardized test seriously (which, nobody really does until college anyways). I'll read up on it to get the full details, but yeah, we have a pretty screwed up school system, especially in L.A.

 

[hamster mk 4]

Children should go to school if just to get out of their parent's hair for a while. All this natural learning with games and play can happen after school. Schools should not be the only source of learning for kids but giving parents an accountability free method of teaching their children will lead to some real stupid kids/adults. Still this practice should be allowed to continue since HG131 makes a good point:

I think it's stupid, but outlawing it is worse. Why? Because if there are no idiots than who will we laugh at?

 

[Buccura]

Our future's up to you, so whatcha gonna do? Dare to be stupid! Dare to be stupid!

 

[Ewyll]

I'm currently in year 11, GCSE year in other words. I hope i'm not alone in saying i'd miss the hell out of school if only for the social interaction. I would however like to point out that there have been times i've wanted to claw my eyes out due to the pointless activities, coursework being one of them. Unschooling seems unstructured, to concieve of a subject you need to really have a structured approach, and learn systematically, I for one could'nt learn physics if they approached it "Now electricity is the flow of electrons" wait... electrons are... and so on and so forth.
There is no ideal schooling system, it is impossible to tailor one to each individual and we use a broad approach to teach as many as possible the basic skills to life.

In response to learning useless topics such as "Biology to a lawyer" Everyone needs a footing in a large variety of subjects to
A: Decide which path to take, they might not have a "game plan".
B: To make sure the student is not totally ignorant of some subjects.

 

[Twilight_guy]

In theory that's a good idea but in reality kids are lazy and will no do anything edify themselves.

Not to mention that "I followed my dreams" will not help you when you want to get a job and you need to have a paper saying you are educated, not the knowledge.

Education is a bureaucracy and although it should be about personal pursuit, it doesn't work that way anymore.

 

[captainwolfos]

I'm too lazy to read through all these posts, but in case I am ninja'd...

Spoiler

Oh crap; damn ninjas!

Ahem. I'm in two minds about this. School for me wasn't the best experience in the world, but nor was it exactly bad. I think it's apparent from the posts I've actually read that most people think that this is a completely retarded idea, so therefore the intelligent people won't be sending their kids there.
On the other hand, kids with kids, or people who generally can't handle their kids would probably use these ridiculously named 'unschooling' things to send their kids off and learn something, while not necessarily constructive or useful, but may actually keep them out of trouble for a few hours.

Spoiler: DISCLAIMER:

By the way, I really don't like kids. Especially kids with kids. Many Escapists may have noticed this in my posts. My argument may be biased.

 

[abaeran]

I feel that these unschoolers are taking an appraoch as if we never had time in grade school to pursue individual passions....

I say, for the motivated, school is no barrier to pursuit of passions.

Without my exposure to things I liked, things I didn't like in school, I would have had a paltry set of interests. Still, in graduate school, I am pursuing all the interests I have always enjoyed - albeit in a shorter set of time - but, that allows me to savor my extracurricular learning.

And, of course, there are the people. Say, sheltering one's kids from bullies will not do them much good when they are in the real world, where life is... well, life. I emulated the peers and mentors I liked, and figured out what I didn't like in others. School mocks the world outside. It's not always pretty, walking down the hallways of your local highschool, yet there are kids there who are motivated and doing admirable things. Besides, if I had the freedom to choose - with my personality, I would avoid human contact. But, I realize how important communication is - and thus, I have observed and picked up, and honed my skills.

I don't know if children can have clarity of direction at such a young age to figure out what they want to do, what they want to eat, where they want to go.

Faced with a choice of a day of freedom, perhaps adventurous, spent out in the woods, or melting in a couch to watch television/play games, or surfing the net, versus sitting down with lecture notes and studying - I think the choice is obvious. Yet, can a child from an early age understand the difference between short term and long term goals? Perhaps they understand later in their lives, but they will be left in the dust behind their peers, when they come to the realization.

Last thought: what happens when these kids walk out into the world and realize that they will not get everything their way?

I advocate literacy, education, and the chance to make passions a reality.

 

[ObsessiveSketch]

This theory of "do whatchoo want" is supposed to kick in around high school/college, where kids can really start to branch out into their interests. The basic k-8th grade is for laying the basics of education. These parents sound like pot-smoking hippies who don't want their precious offspring ruined by "the man."
It's like the parents who don't get their kids vaccinated because they think the government is testing super-disease serums. I have no tolerance for this sort of stupidity. I wonder whether most 'unschoolers' are in the south or the west of the US?

 

[Phoenixlight]

But, what about math?
Where will the calculus come from! Nooo!

Yeah, there's plenty of pointless mathematics that can't easily be applied to everyday situations.

 

[Bobbovski]

I'm not really sure what to think... I probably works for some children. But it's definetly not for everyone. I do feel that the brain washing possibilities is a bit scary though. Some people seem to pick homeschooling/unschooling for the wrong reasons.

 

[BlueTomfoolery]

I'm going to say something in the hopes that it wasn't said before:

School doubles as a babysitting program! Parents must send their kids to school so they don't worry about their wellbeing while at work.

 

[GamingAwesome1]

Sounds like new age "everyone is special!" bullshit to me. Go to school and make your kids suck it up like the rest of us.

I am one of these new age kids and I still think this is bullshit to the highest degree.

This is why I am slowly becoming more and more disappointed in my own generation!