Realism, Except for women or Are there any real girls in video games.

[Therumancer]

You do, of course, realize that I AM a woman right? I have two X's, breasts and a vagina, with ALL the working parts installed.

Secondly: Damn, that is one castle's worth of brick wall of text, not gonna lie, I skimmed, it's just too massive to go into detail.

Thirdly: I'm not here to argue why or why not "real" women don't appear in games/books/movies or even if most people want them there, I'm simply asking if you know any games they do appear in. I'm sorry If i come off as frustrated but it seems people have been ignoring my original question like it was the gorram plague.

No I didn't, despite the handle.

That said, the bottom line of my wall of text is that your dealing with fantasy and science fiction, your dealing with heroic ideals. The female characters that you see in the games as protatagnists represent that ideal, and not just as seen by men, as seen by women who create such things themselves (with several referances given previously).

Perhaps I misunderstood your question, and as you state it above, the basic answer is that you don't see any "real women" in video games for the same reason you don't see "real men", it's heroic fantasy, intended to get away from the norm. Just about everyone is basically a super hero and looks the part, or at least has unusual powers or whatever. Even the "nerds" tend to be fairly ideal.

The same thing applies to books, movies, and other things.

With material outside of the heroic fantasy genere you do tend to see a more normal looking people when they aren't playing characters that aren't supposed to be bigger than life. I mean when you consider that little old ladies who solve crimes, like Miss Marple and of course the TV series "Murder She Wrote" is now a genere stereotype for mysteries, your getting away from the heroic ideal there for sure.

 

[IamQ]

Vanille *snicker*.

For reals though: Trip from Enslaved. She's not a badass, but she's also not that much of a damsel of distress (sort of, what with all that enslavement business she's got going on.). She reacts real to situations I.E she gets fucking terrified, but she can still hold her own when talking to the other characters.

She is also not very sexuality physically, which the exception of her clothes, but since it's the apocalypse, she takes what she can get. She's also not some E-cup bombshell with next gen jiggle physics.

 

[Treblaine]

Its not that "real" doesn't equal "normal" I mean they're trying to hard and it comes off forced. I understand that fundimentally fictional characters cannot be real, however they can FEEL real, or look real, and while Alyx is such an attempt, it comes off forced, like a bad actress in a movie.

Non-idealized character, ones with flaws and personality and driving goals that aren't just plot devices. And girls who aren't simply T&A or skimpy sex outfits.

You're not explaining yourself very well.

Could you give examples of a "real" female character in video games?

 

[Treblaine]

Secondly: Damn, that is one castle's worth of brick wall of text, not gonna lie, I skimmed, it's just too massive to go into detail.

If you don't read a post in full then it is poor form to reply to it, as what are you replying to?

Any particular section or quote needs the context of the entire rest of the text.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

Its not that "real" doesn't equal "normal" I mean they're trying to hard and it comes off forced. I understand that fundimentally fictional characters cannot be real, however they can FEEL real, or look real, and while Alyx is such an attempt, it comes off forced, like a bad actress in a movie.

Non-idealized character, ones with flaws and personality and driving goals that aren't just plot devices. And girls who aren't simply T&A or skimpy sex outfits.

You're not explaining yourself very well.

Could you give examples of a "real" female character in video games?

Shepard from ME1 (before the Cerberus sponsored boob job, still real in ME2 but the change was annoying), The girl from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Kat from Halo Reach (Gonna get crucified for this I'm sure), and a couple others I can't immediately recall.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

Secondly: Damn, that is one castle's worth of brick wall of text, not gonna lie, I skimmed, it's just too massive to go into detail.

If you don't read a post in full then it is poor form to reply to it, as what are you replying to?

Any particular section or quote needs the context of the entire rest of the text.

I re-read your entire post and you still never answered my actual question: Are there "real" women in video games. I actually went out of my way to tell people that I was NOT asking for why they think over-idealized women/men were in games, whether they belonged there or even why said games sold well. I'm sorry but I've been getting lists of answers to questions I'm neither asking nor want to hear answered.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Kate Walker in the Syberia games. I could totally identify with her.

 

[Treblaine]

Its not that "real" doesn't equal "normal" I mean they're trying to hard and it comes off forced. I understand that fundimentally fictional characters cannot be real, however they can FEEL real, or look real, and while Alyx is such an attempt, it comes off forced, like a bad actress in a movie.

Non-idealized character, ones with flaws and personality and driving goals that aren't just plot devices. And girls who aren't simply T&A or skimpy sex outfits.

You're not explaining yourself very well.

Could you give examples of a "real" female character in video games?

Shepard from ME1 (before the Cerberus sponsored boob job, still real in ME2 but the change was annoying), The girl from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Kat from Halo Reach (Gonna get crucified for this I'm sure), and a couple others I can't immediately recall.

Hmm, OK. That's a nice start. But what are common the aspects of all these characters that make them "real".

That is their personality, appearance, capability and role in the plot or game-play mechanics.

And please, tie that in with the actual meaning of the word "real". If you can't tie it in with that word, maybe you should choose another word to describe what you mean.

[small] {PS: what is with the boob-job comment? Everyone's lives are full of "fakeness" like makeup, haircuts, clothing, piercing. Just because it isn't "as god intended" doesn't make THE PERSON less real. If I am expected to accept that a transsexual is a real woman to spite being born a man and artificially changed physical gender... then how can anyone consider a woman "fake" for having any kind of augmentation to sex appeal.

I'm also sure you know that breast size can change naturally. If women are considered less "real" by having more emphasised secondary sexual characteristics... well that just leads towards eunuchs as heroines. Or hairy, flat chested, curve-less, naturist. Male characters don't have to suffer this prejudice, that the more "masculine" they appear - even if just a slight change - they are somehow denigrated as "fake".}[/small]

 

[Treblaine]

Secondly: Damn, that is one castle's worth of brick wall of text, not gonna lie, I skimmed, it's just too massive to go into detail.

If you don't read a post in full then it is poor form to reply to it, as what are you replying to?

Any particular section or quote needs the context of the entire rest of the text.

I re-read your entire post and you still never answered my actual question: Are there "real" women in video games. I actually went out of my way to tell people that I was NOT asking for why they think over-idealized women/men were in games, whether they belonged there or even why said games sold well. I'm sorry but I've been getting lists of answers to questions I'm neither asking nor want to hear answered.

Hi! Hi there, I'm Treblaine. Not Therumancer.

I Didn't write that "wall-o-text". I'm the one asking what on the earth IT ACTUALLY IS that you are asking about!

You are still throwing about the term "real" like it means something in works of complete fiction. I hear this all the time with my sister, she knows I hate it and she always says she doesn't mean the dictionary definition of "real" but always gets frustrated when I asker her to actually explain herself.

And actually you can't answer of the question "name a real character" without exploring what that actually means, so yeah, get off Therumancer's case on him going off and exploring this point.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

Secondly: Damn, that is one castle's worth of brick wall of text, not gonna lie, I skimmed, it's just too massive to go into detail.

If you don't read a post in full then it is poor form to reply to it, as what are you replying to?

Any particular section or quote needs the context of the entire rest of the text.

I re-read your entire post and you still never answered my actual question: Are there "real" women in video games. I actually went out of my way to tell people that I was NOT asking for why they think over-idealized women/men were in games, whether they belonged there or even why said games sold well. I'm sorry but I've been getting lists of answers to questions I'm neither asking nor want to hear answered.

Hi! Hi there, I'm Treblaine. Not Therumancer.

I Didn't write that "wall-o-text". I'm the one asking what on the earth IT ACTUALLY IS that you are asking about!

You are still throwing about the term "real" like it means something in works of complete fiction. I hear this all the time with my sister, she knows I hate it and she always says she doesn't mean the dictionary definition of "real" but always gets frustrated when I asker her to actually explain herself.

And actually you can't answer of the question "name a real character" without exploring what that actually means, so yeah, get off Therumancer's case on him going off and exploring this point.

Sorry, got confused with all the back and forthing I'm doing. I mean women who aren't over-idealizations. Women who either aren't one-dimensional characters or double-D underwear vixins. They don't always happen in movies/books/drawings/paintings, they don't need to happen in video games, and yet they do, all the damn time. So yes, "real" can be used in this meduim, same as in any other.

 

[Treblaine]

Not that I can think of, but seriously, I would gladly play another space marine shooter if the protagonist were a REAL butch dyke. Maybe i never see myself represented, sure lesbians are in popular culture, but only if they are pretty enough. I don`t mean the stereotypical fat, motorbike riding leather vest wearing type people, either. Those people make us look bad. Just a woman who happens to be more masculine or androgynous treated like a normal person. They have a whole show called The L Word which is nothing but lesbians all day everyday and they STILL don't have any real butches. Occasionally you can find one sitting in the background in a bar scene, but that's about it. The kind of woman who naturally gravitates towards more masculine ventures.

Hmm, someone like Trinity from The Matrix? Of course before she went all gaga eyes for Neo she seemed to have that vibe. Or Corky from 'Bound' [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_23lZ6Iv50Q] (also a Wachowski brothers film)?

The thing is I think that guys like butch gals to a similar extent as girls like the "sensitive guy" you know, the meterosexual type.

 

[Treblaine]

Secondly: Damn, that is one castle's worth of brick wall of text, not gonna lie, I skimmed, it's just too massive to go into detail.

If you don't read a post in full then it is poor form to reply to it, as what are you replying to?

Any particular section or quote needs the context of the entire rest of the text.

I re-read your entire post and you still never answered my actual question: Are there "real" women in video games. I actually went out of my way to tell people that I was NOT asking for why they think over-idealized women/men were in games, whether they belonged there or even why said games sold well. I'm sorry but I've been getting lists of answers to questions I'm neither asking nor want to hear answered.

Hi! Hi there, I'm Treblaine. Not Therumancer.

I Didn't write that "wall-o-text". I'm the one asking what on the earth IT ACTUALLY IS that you are asking about!

You are still throwing about the term "real" like it means something in works of complete fiction. I hear this all the time with my sister, she knows I hate it and she always says she doesn't mean the dictionary definition of "real" but always gets frustrated when I asker her to actually explain herself.

And actually you can't answer of the question "name a real character" without exploring what that actually means, so yeah, get off Therumancer's case on him going off and exploring this point.

Sorry, got confused with all the back and forthing I'm doing. I mean women who aren't over-idealizations. Women who either aren't one-dimensional characters or double-D underwear vixins. They don't always happen in movies/books/drawings/paintings, they don't need to happen in video games, and yet they do, all the damn time. So yes, "real" can be used in this meduim, same as in any other.

What do you mean by "one dimensional"? That's a meaningless buzz-word that you have not defined.

What is too much idealisation? Men in video games almost all look like perfectly sculpted body builders, so what if women look like underwear "vixens" (whatever you mean by "vixen"). Looks just gets attention and admiration, what matters is what is then done with that. It is their actions, decisions, intentions and thoughts that REALLY matter.

And what is your obsession with breast size? I am a dude, a straight one and I do. not. care. I am not turned on by vapid airhead bitches not matter how tight their ass, they just piss me off, much like how I guess women are pissed off by the jocks with muscly bodies and good hair but act who like utter sphincters.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Sorry, got confused with all the back and forthing I'm doing. I mean women who aren't over-idealizations. Women who either aren't one-dimensional characters or double-D underwear vixins. They don't always happen in movies/books/drawings/paintings, they don't need to happen in video games, and yet they do, all the damn time. So yes, "real" can be used in this meduim, same as in any other.

Wait... so are we back to being attractive being an automatic DQ for "real" in your mind? You seem to be sort of waffling on that one. How about an attractive but multi-dimensional character? Or a one-dimensional, unattractive character?

 

[ms_sunlight]

You do, of course, realize that I AM a woman right? I have two X's, breasts and a vagina, with ALL the working parts installed.

Of course you're not a woman. There are no women on the internet. Even those of us with breasts and a vagina are not actually women while we on the internet.

To lurch on over into proper feminism here, I have a problem with the term "real women". The term is often used to differentiate one kind of woman for another (a la the Dove advertising campaign) and imply that one kind is more authentic than another, but as far as I am concerned, any adult who self-identifies as a woman is a woman. I don't like it when it is said that someone is not a "real woman" because she has had plastic surgery, or because she is a model, or because she conforms (by accident or design) to some beauty ideal, when in reality unfair expectations of female appearance hurt all women. (Yeah, I read "The Beauty Myth". I even agree with quite a bit of it.)

Likewise, the term "real woman" obviously doesn't apply to fictional characters; the Border House blog has a series of articles on characters done right [http://borderhouseblog.com/?tag=characters-done-right] which I think is a better way to put it.

To answer your original question, I do prefer interesting female characters with well-rounded personalities. People have mentioned Kreia and April Ryan and a few other favourites of mine. I don't think anyone's mentioned Safiya from Neverwinter Nights 2: Mast of the Betrayer. I am very, very fond of her. She's a competent, confident wizard with a distinct voice and personality, a fascinating relationship with her mother and her academy and a very interesting story to discover.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Safiya [http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Safiya]

 

[Jared Domenico]

I have a hard time believing that they couldn`t find ONE real lesbian for Noble team (as an example). You would think that far into the future they would realize that butches make tough soldiers and have given at least one a good position. I want short hair on my protagonist because it`s easier to take care of - especially if your job is being a space marine. A woman who sits with her legs open because really - who the hell cares, we are in a war. Basically a Starbuck attitude (minus the crying Adama daddy issues) with a more butch look. That would be more realistic to me than stuffing more polygons into the terrain.

Spartan II and III augmentation procedures neutralize the sex drive.

 

[Kotaro]

Alyx Vance. Been said enough, though.
Also any of the female crew members in Mass Effect. Very well-developed characters.

 

[intheweeds]

Not that I can think of, but seriously, I would gladly play another space marine shooter if the protagonist were a REAL butch dyke. Maybe i never see myself represented, sure lesbians are in popular culture, but only if they are pretty enough. I don`t mean the stereotypical fat, motorbike riding leather vest wearing type people, either. Those people make us look bad. Just a woman who happens to be more masculine or androgynous treated like a normal person. They have a whole show called The L Word which is nothing but lesbians all day everyday and they STILL don't have any real butches. Occasionally you can find one sitting in the background in a bar scene, but that's about it. The kind of woman who naturally gravitates towards more masculine ventures.

Hmm, someone like Trinity from The Matrix? Of course before she went all gaga eyes for Neo she seemed to have that vibe. Or Corky from 'Bound' [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_23lZ6Iv50Q] (also a Wachowski brothers film)?

The thing is I think that guys like butch gals to a similar extent as girls like the "sensitive guy" you know, the meterosexual type.

Corky from Bound - nail on the head.
Trinity is pretty close, but I always get that sexy boss vibe from her, idk why, like she's only tough to be sexy. I'm thinking of Lucy Liu in that 'Barracuda' Charlies Angels scene. The one where shes walking through the office in the high heels. (not that there's anything wrong with that!)

Edit: Ah, in retrospect, Corky wears a bit more makeup than i find realistic, but what do you expect from hollywood? Gina Gershon nailed the attitude and demeanor anyway.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Aveline From Dragon Age II, she is a bad ass.

Kreia from Kotor II, she's definately not your average boobs on a stick >_>

I don't agree with Aveline, since I felt she was boring. However, Kreia is hands down one of the best and underrated characters in gaming history.

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

of course they're all real! didnt you know all us girls have MASSIVE tits and asses and kick more ass than a rugby game on speed?

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

of course they're all real! didnt you know all us girls have MASSIVE tits and asses and kick more ass than a rugby game on speed?

I know right? And we all have waists so thin you can stab us with a fork and we will fit between the prongs, really quite handy no?