Sexuality in Mass Effect
- Thread starter Mother Yeti
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People mention Tali's hips because they're KICKIN' RAD. She's definitely a leg girl.The_Oracle said:Isn't it strange people always mention Tali's hips when talking about her?Fappy said:Oh I know. I was just saying he should contribute to one of the existing petitions instead of starting his own. It shouldn't have taken a petition to bang Tali though... I mean the Devs made those hips themselves... they should have been preparedThe_Oracle said:
It was always her voice that was the most intriguing part, for me at least.
P.S. Definitely don't do a Google image search for "Tali Mass Effect" with Safesearch turned off. Yikes.
Simply noticing and wanting to discuss the romantic imbalances in Mass Effect is hardly "establishing an overzealous controversy."Bourne said:
I didn't realize you were being forced to read this thread. If you find the topic boring and think it's played out, then just stop coming to it. Those who find it interesting will continue to post until we all get bored and leave, and those who don't can talk about other things.
Edit: Just looked at the Gay Shepard thread on the official forums ... holy shit is the homophobia on those boards rampant. Page after page of HURRR SHEPARD AINT NO FLAMER YA DUM FRUITS.
Similar to you I am entitled to present my opinion or regardless whether or not you like what it is I post. I did not cite it boring, more irritating and unnecessary primarily because a decision not to include homosexuality has created numerous outcries from a minority. Yours is among one of many and debate is redundant. The overzealous remark was in reference to your early posts igniting a homophobia debate when there was not a need. I suppose admittedly such is derived from a generalized annoyance...Mother Yeti said:
The edit portion I would hope is not to insinuate I am homophobic.
I don't think you're homophobic (it just seemed as easy a place as any to comment on that particular clusterfuck), and I'm not bothered by your posts. It just seemed like you were bothered by this thread, in which case there's a very easy fixBourne said:
Hmm... Nope. I think its simply because of the male-shep is too manly looking to be gay according to common media. He'd have to wear fuzzy pink armor or something.
Egads. Now that image is stuck in my head.
Egads. Now that image is stuck in my head.
That is not entirely inaccurate. Admittedly I have no qualm with a homosexual relationship, the more content the better and I do not believe the excuse "it would ruin a character" nonsense which has been mentioned by others here, however I concede to having grown tired of the debate if only because of all the forums I venture in regards to ME2, this usually is debated... with a legion of thread. Nonetheless you are correct and I am/was being hostileMother Yeti said:I don't think you're homophobic (it just seemed as easy a place as any to comment on that particular clusterfuck), and I'm not bothered by your posts. It just seemed like you were bothered by this thread, in which case there's a very easy fix
Such as...Ironsouled said:
You know that is sexy though.
It doesn't make yaoi girls very happy, then again, the men aren't attractive enough to want to hook them up.
Shepard is a character written, not a blank slate. Dragon Age and ME1+2 are on opposite ends of their shared genre. Male Shepard is the canon choice. Male Shepard is not a homosexual.
As it stands, I think talking about "imbalances in the romance options" could quite possibly be fallacious. Femshep's dialogue is identical, but she's not canonical. She's whatever you want, because her inclusion is just a *huge* bloody courtesy- for which I'm very grateful. Comparing Femshep's game to Manshep's game is fallacious because Femshep is... the Fantasy Football, make-it-up-as-you-go-along version of the real thing.
Key: More freedom is possible *because* whatever Femshep does has no bearing on ME's canon.
Male Shep is the main character in the interactive story that is Mass Effect. If I read a book, I don't expect to be at the helm of the lead characters' sexuality, be they male OR female themselves. Mass Effect is an interactive book- like a lot of games- and there's only ONE main character in its canon. Male Shepard, of whom you have much less than total control.
In short, an answer inspired by Blizzard: Male Shepard working as intended.
As it stands, I think talking about "imbalances in the romance options" could quite possibly be fallacious. Femshep's dialogue is identical, but she's not canonical. She's whatever you want, because her inclusion is just a *huge* bloody courtesy- for which I'm very grateful. Comparing Femshep's game to Manshep's game is fallacious because Femshep is... the Fantasy Football, make-it-up-as-you-go-along version of the real thing.
Key: More freedom is possible *because* whatever Femshep does has no bearing on ME's canon.
Male Shep is the main character in the interactive story that is Mass Effect. If I read a book, I don't expect to be at the helm of the lead characters' sexuality, be they male OR female themselves. Mass Effect is an interactive book- like a lot of games- and there's only ONE main character in its canon. Male Shepard, of whom you have much less than total control.
In short, an answer inspired by Blizzard: Male Shepard working as intended.
Why bother with a female Shepard then? Or why bother with any customization?
This is silly and it's just another example of the subtle homophobia most people can't even conceptualize. Homophobia isn't just individual acts of meanness or prejudice. Some of you are forcing your personal view of sexual identity onto others based on some mistaken notion that how you identify with your sexuality is somehow normative.
This is silly and it's just another example of the subtle homophobia most people can't even conceptualize. Homophobia isn't just individual acts of meanness or prejudice. Some of you are forcing your personal view of sexual identity onto others based on some mistaken notion that how you identify with your sexuality is somehow normative.
I hope you don't mean me. If you do, then I humbly suggest that you don't ask after my sexuality. It might put a hole in your boat. =)
I'm the first to get angry and the last to stop being angry when Alistair won't play.. ball. ^ahem^ In that game, where the main character is *mine* and Alistair is so.. *sigh* Well, never mind. My point is, I'm not homophobic. Just the suspicion that the comment might have been pointed at me sends me into fits of laughter. Laughter, and terrible rage- see the following diagram: xD^8<
I'm the first to get angry and the last to stop being angry when Alistair won't play.. ball. ^ahem^ In that game, where the main character is *mine* and Alistair is so.. *sigh* Well, never mind. My point is, I'm not homophobic. Just the suspicion that the comment might have been pointed at me sends me into fits of laughter. Laughter, and terrible rage- see the following diagram: xD^8<
There is a wealth of sci-fi which incorporates male homosexuality. Wikipedia even has a list for it:Ghostwise said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_speculative_fiction
Again, this is a ridicilous claim. The whole point of RPGs is that there is no canon. BioWare may play their Shepherd as some sort of womanising Saint. But I may play my Shepherd as an utter psychopath who coincidentally never had any relationships with females. To claim that the gamer himself/herself cannot personally choose an option because it "doesn't fit into canon" is just absurd.Candidus said:
Except that you can't play him as a womanising saint (you're forced to monogamise- new word, high score!), `or` an utter psychopath (you can't just say "lol, screw you guys!" and blow away everybody in engineering on the end of a rough conversation with Jack). You choose the flavour of Shepard's communication with the world he's in, but can't swing him to an extreme- no, I'm afraid we disagree. There absolutely IS canon.
Like Mass Effect, it's an RPG. Like Mass Effect, the lead's character is set- or *almost* set, as you can flavour your responses in most (hideous) J-rpgs as well- but the point is that BOTH games have an obvious canon the developers want you to run through, and NEITHER game offers an option that breaks said canon.
Additionally, Final Fantasy. More in common than you may want to accept.RyVal said:
Like Mass Effect, it's an RPG. Like Mass Effect, the lead's character is set- or *almost* set, as you can flavour your responses in most (hideous) J-rpgs as well- but the point is that BOTH games have an obvious canon the developers want you to run through, and NEITHER game offers an option that breaks said canon.
The stated intent of Shepard in Mass Effect was, from the start that he/she would be unique to and directed by the player. That's why even where there is a default Shepard, none of his specific actions and decisions are "canon", because the "canon" is whatever each player decides it is by their actions playing the game.Candidus said:
There is no "real thing" of Shepard, even if you played the default one, you didn't play him the same as everyone else.
I think this discussion is really interesting as I've wondered why there was no gay option. I always thought, "Hey, Shepard could be gay as there's really no evidence that suggests either way".
Then I saw how he dances in ME2.....oh dear, st8 as a die.
But seriously, I don't think it ever crossed the developers mind to put in a gay option. Some people say that the male Shepard is canon and the female Shepard isn't but shouldn't it be that the default-male-Shepard option canon as this is what the developers envisioned?
What I mean is, any other male or female you play isn't the canon and added this for some player immersion into the game?
Then I saw how he dances in ME2.....oh dear, st8 as a die.
But seriously, I don't think it ever crossed the developers mind to put in a gay option. Some people say that the male Shepard is canon and the female Shepard isn't but shouldn't it be that the default-male-Shepard option canon as this is what the developers envisioned?
What I mean is, any other male or female you play isn't the canon and added this for some player immersion into the game?
Final Fantasy is a JRPG and thus a poor example - JRPGs historically offer very little in the way of (background) customization.Candidus said:
It's a little beyond me why so much time is spent on making romance an option in the games at all. This time, there are so many choices that I've basically given up keeping count of it.
That said, as a straight male, I'd have no problem with Shepard being gay. I don't in any way see a contradiction in being a kick-ass, decisive take-charge kinda guy and him being into other guys - nor do I see what the big deal is.
That said, I've also found it quite annoying that lesbianism seems to be accepted, even revered at times while so many shun gay males.
Also, the discussion about male Shepard being canon is, frankly, a load of bull. Shepard *is* very much a clean slate as is most protagonists of RPG's. Sexuality is a rather small part of the character and being gay or heterosexual is not *nearly* as big a thing as the question of him being a good person (Paragon) or a bad and violent one (Renegade).
In a game that is all about moral choices it seems completely retarded to think that Shepard is somehow locked into a specific role. Have you not been paying attention in those 60+ hours you spent with ME1/ME2 ?
That said, as a straight male, I'd have no problem with Shepard being gay. I don't in any way see a contradiction in being a kick-ass, decisive take-charge kinda guy and him being into other guys - nor do I see what the big deal is.
That said, I've also found it quite annoying that lesbianism seems to be accepted, even revered at times while so many shun gay males.
Also, the discussion about male Shepard being canon is, frankly, a load of bull. Shepard *is* very much a clean slate as is most protagonists of RPG's. Sexuality is a rather small part of the character and being gay or heterosexual is not *nearly* as big a thing as the question of him being a good person (Paragon) or a bad and violent one (Renegade).
In a game that is all about moral choices it seems completely retarded to think that Shepard is somehow locked into a specific role. Have you not been paying attention in those 60+ hours you spent with ME1/ME2 ?
I defy anyone to call the male Shepard "canon" after comparing the voice acting of Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale.
Seriously, the man sounds like cardboard rubbing against a concrete wall.
Flat and abrasive in one monotonous concoction.
Also, I admit to having read the Mass Effect novels; and at no point is it defined what sex Shepard has.
That the marketing showcases the male incarnation is purely for the sake of insecure adolescent boys who couldn't possibly grasp the idea of a woman being the saviour of the known universe.
In my personal canon (which is the only level on which we can delineate such a thing) Shepard is a female infiltrator; troubled survivor of Akuze with a heart of gold. Also has a soft spot for interstellar anthropology, sniper rifles and ladies of an azure disposition.
Seriously, the man sounds like cardboard rubbing against a concrete wall.
Flat and abrasive in one monotonous concoction.
Also, I admit to having read the Mass Effect novels; and at no point is it defined what sex Shepard has.
That the marketing showcases the male incarnation is purely for the sake of insecure adolescent boys who couldn't possibly grasp the idea of a woman being the saviour of the known universe.
In my personal canon (which is the only level on which we can delineate such a thing) Shepard is a female infiltrator; troubled survivor of Akuze with a heart of gold. Also has a soft spot for interstellar anthropology, sniper rifles and ladies of an azure disposition.