So... fat chicks.

[Alex_P]

The problem is that this kind of moralistic thinking has been tried with every public health issue from ulcers [http://www.amazon.com/No-Magic-Bullet-Venereal-Paperbacks/dp/0195042379] and it always turns out to be the worst possible response.

Thank you.

A lot.

-- Alex

 

[Furrama]

Better a fat princess then a fat plumber.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

Ah...inequality from all walks of life (a topic like this is a field day for me!).

I am instantly suspicious of anything that catches the attention of feminists due to their very well known agenda of 'it's a man's fault' (notice also how there was no 'masculinist' movement)

Well known but absurdly inaccurate. As a person who is a self-identified leftist feminist and who has been studying and thinking about feminism, gender, social justice, and sustainable culture for over 20 years, if you have any question about my "agenda", feel free to ask. Sure, there are lots of asshole feminists, or at least women who use the term "feminism" to further their self-interest, but that doesn't invalidate feminism or its ideas. And I'm willing to bet money that I can deliver a much more comprehensive rundown of fucked up feminism and wingnut feminists than you can.

Every movement, every group of people of any sort, is going to have its loudmouths, nutjobs, and people who make other people in the group headdesk at there sheer idiocy coming out of their mouths. The feminist community isn't any more immune to this than the gamer community. We have our equivalent of the stereotypical l337-speaking, Xbox Live shithead, but they aren't anymore representative of feminism than the fanboy is of the gamer community.

I've gotten in a lot of discussions about feminism here, and I'm pretty sure that I haven't manifested any man-hating behaviors. Quite the opposite, as one of my best friends here was a self-declared misogynist.

This is off-topic, and rehashes a lot of previous threads, so I won't hijack this thread into yet another gender thread, but I didn't want to let that slur pass without comment.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Sure, there are lots of asshole feminists, or at least women who use the term "feminism" to further their self-interest, but that doesn't invalidate feminism or its ideas. And I'm willing to bet money that I can deliver a much more comprehensive rundown of fucked up feminism and wingnut feminists than you can.

Thank you. And I apologise for some of our misogynists as well.(Some don't deserve an apology)

Better a fat princess then a fat plumber.

Don't think there's been many blog posts on how Fat Tony/Fat Albert/Mario/Pacman/E.Honda/Karnov/Wario promote fat hatred. Wonder why?
Actually, R.Mika, Lizzie(Rampage), Sarah Kerrigan, the two girls from Metal Gear got big by overeating as well...
And let's face it, with that pink dress on, we'll never know how big Princess Peach is pre Mario Soccer days.


Oh, and let's just have a quick look at the game. You have two men fighting over rescuing a princess.

So...the portly princess is the prize...the wanted thing...

If it was two women trying to rescue a fat bloke, they'd probably just tell him to lay off the carbs.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Why would that matter? That's like saying a game called _Dark Prince_ where you have to feed a black skinned character watermelon shouldn't be offensive because it's "refering to a fictional character, this person doesn't exsist."

Unfair. The very fact you mentioned watermelon shows there is a racial epithet still in place there.
I don't think there's anything wrong with any race eating watermelon, but by constant reference to the epithet, you're actually strengthening it.
Is "Trilby:The Art of Theft" racist because it shows an Englishman with an umbrella?

 

[ephemeralM]

you know, i think you should stop writing rude stuff about the woman that wrote that blog entry. it's not like i think about the game anywhere close to what she thinks. it's just you're just showing what kind of person you are, not her. there are lots of people worse than her on the internet so going on how stupid, ugly and whatever she is doesn't change anything and even makes you worse than her.
as for the game, i don't really have an opinion about it. doesn't look either pretty or interesting to me, i've seen the trailer just because of the title. it's a good thing it doesn't make fun of fat people and i don't see why a fat person would get mad just because the princess is fat. the game just shows that any person can have their physical appereance changed but you should still treat them the same.

 

[The Wooster]

the game just shows that any person can have their physical appereance changed but you should still treat them the same.

I'm a fat mother fucker and I can't remember the last time an army of tiny dudes carried me out of a castle under fire.

 

[ephemeralM]

I'm a fat mother fucker and I can't remember the last time an army of tiny dudes carried me out of a castle under fire.

they didn't carry me out either D: we can still get a skin transplant though ^^

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Read my post more carefully--I was using that example for the limited purpose of showing that the argument Iron Mal was making--that just because "we are refering to a fictional character" "anything that happens or is said shouldn't bother anyone"--is flawed and does not follow.

The problem is that you're adding a caveat to his example which is a racist example.

If your Dark Prince is eating Watermelon, there's no racism. If he's eating watermelon only with the same grin that is used for the racial epithet, then there's racism, but it's from the epithet, not the game.
In a similar vein, if Mario(being Italian) was part of a Mafia-type group, then there would be the All Italians are in the Mafia epithet, but not related to the game or to Mario himself.

Their fatness wasn't depicted as anything but as incidental a characteristic as Mario's mustache?

All move slowly due to their weight...as does Fat Princess. And let's remember, she was force fed by the villain.

@ephemeralM : If the woman uses something to, if you'll pardon the pun, 'big herself up' then someone is going to shoot her down...and get her thousands of readers for her blog post, and her photo across many websites; so: I don't think she's completely failing here.

 

[Saskwach]

So instead of all the Objective Xes that could have been weighed with down with Resource Y to stop the enemy side from dragging X back to their castle, they chose feeding a fat woman? This here blog [http://www.feministgamers.com/?p=466] has a few ideas, and I do too - off the top of my head.
I don't know how deliberately insensitive Sony was being, but I don't understand how hard it is to see the problem some might see with the game - and how easy it would be to change the concept.

 

[Kraj]

Meh, honestly I believe that there is something to be said for health looking beautiful, there is also something to be said for obesity looking unnatural and unhealthy. If you are by nature a large woman, perfectly healthy in that way, and you appeal to me personality wise and interest wise, i'll find you just as appealing as a skinny girl with the stereotypical body. It also speaks to my sense of responsibility, i don't see why i should trust someone who doesn't have the responsibility or capability to take care of themselves with possibly eventually taking care of me or my emotions as well. "Marriage is a mutual thing, but both sides have to be able to hold up their ends" So excluding personal preferences in body type, health often naturally appeals to people. I don't see why i should be expected to not be biased in my choices when considering someone clearly unhealthy and with possibly a permanent chip on their shoulder over someone who is rather athletic and has the "healthy glow".
Notice, i find unhealthy people unattractive regardless of what they look like, its just a natural inclination as far as i'm concerned. This includes annorexia and such.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

and even the medical condition isn't truly a medical condition.

What if the medical condition was an infection by a virus [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.42428#296796] that changed the way the human body deals with its own fat cells?

then it would be an infection that people are not usually referring to when they speak of obesity as a genetic condition.

 

[Break]

The most ridiculous gamer-community defenses of this game are the flimsy ones that claim that Fat Princess doesn’t really perpetuate negative stereotypes about fat people, or that it’s pro-fat because you’re trying to rescue a fat girl. I’m sorry, but it’s been obvious since it was announced at E3 that a lot of people found this game downright hilarious. Just look at the coverage from last week. And it wasn’t because of the cartoony little soldier boys and girls hacking each other up; Castle Crashers, another hotly anticipated game with a similar art style and theme, didn’t get the same “OMFG I’m laughing my ass off” reaction. The game is absurd, deliberately so, because of the inclusion of the eponymous Fat Princess.

Is the point, here. Would people mind actually bothering to read the reasoning [http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/23/well-that-was-bound-to-happen/] before listing off generic and poorly thought-out supports?

Wait, in _Super Mario Bros. 2_ doesn't fat Mario have four stars for speed while the skinny Luigi has only three?

That's because Doki Doki Panic isn't a Mario game.

 

[Alex_P]

Holly from Feministe:

The prototypical online gamer (at least the kind that burn their free time posting on message boards and blogs) is not only used to screaming offensive inanities at each other, but is crouched in a perpetual defensive posture, waiting to lash out if anyone dares slight their console of choice, claim that video games brainwash teens into shooting up high schools, or suggest that any game they like might be worth a political critique.

Yeah, pretty accurate.

-- Alex

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Holly from Feministe:

The prototypical online gamer (at least the kind that burn their free time posting on message boards and blogs) is not only used to screaming offensive inanities at each other, but is crouched in a perpetual defensive posture, waiting to lash out if anyone dares slight their console of choice, claim that video games brainwash teens into shooting up high schools, or suggest that any game they like might be worth a political critique.

Yeah, pretty accurate.

-- Alex

I liked that article. It was well thought out and didn't come off as someone screaming with angst (see pic of blogger's middle finger).

Thanks for the link, Break. If someone else linked it before, sorry I've been busy elsewhere.

I read the article, but it does little to my overall position. The game doesn't promote or insult fat people outright. However it does still show (some) women as objects without will. This is somewhat balanced by the fact players can have female avatars.

The problem is that complaining about this game in terms of sexism is somewhat problematic. Ultimately, as I understand it, a 'zero-sexism' society would have a few differences for men and women for convenience's sake, but realistically the goal (that I assume) many active feminists strive for is a happy median. Essentially where there is a certain amount of balance between various views portrayed in media. If this is the case (for the sake of argument, not because I think the world is at a happy median) then they both should and shouldn't argue against this game.
Should argue since the game does portray women as objects in one of the more important roles of the game.
Shouldn't argue since the game is one of many in an industry. Considering that the positive role models may balance it out.