So you discover that your girlfriend is transgendered.
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I think some of the replies are due to having never met (or knowing they met) a trans person before. Some people are scared of what they don't know and rely on media interpretation (which if you do that.... then hey believe the media interpretation that gamers commit crimes cause of video games and are EVIL... so let's ban games!... wait you don't believe that... I guess media's representation can be falsified, agonizingly off the mark, and insulting.
I have known people who were anti-trans, who upon finding out that I was born looking like a boy, changed their mind. They were like oh wait... you are pretty cool actually. They had no clue that I was trans even when I spoke. I even gave a monologue in front of a hundred people who came to see a panel of lgbt people, and a few people came up to me swearing they had no clue I was a transsexual when they saw me. It's just that trans people who are stealth rarely announce that they are trans to people.
I would imagine if someone built an emotional bond with a girl and were in love they'd see past something like being trans. Maybe the guy would appreciate that she felt so connected to him that she was willing to share something that no one else knows and for which she has had to face scorn over... trusting her bf so much to impart something so heavy.
Growing up, I saw inside guy cliques the whole fear of losing community acceptance. There is such a fear of being considered gay that anything even remotely can be construed as so is faced with a lot of scorn. Girls that happen to be trans won't make you gay. But also just as important, I think a strong guy is not someone who is manly or stoic, but is someone says I don't care what other people think (whether it be playing nerdy games, liking a trans girl, disliking sports, or whatever else). Most people realize, and I did too, that upon leaving high school that high school cliques and social structures means absolutely nothing and is hillariously laughable. Upon entering college, I thought back and was like why was I ever scared or concerned about what those people think? (esp the people that I didn't want to be friends with anyway)
Also remember this is internet land, so those who might feel like ewww NO now, might feel dfferently if they were emotionally invested in their gf and knew them as a person not a societal and media stereotype.
I have known people who were anti-trans, who upon finding out that I was born looking like a boy, changed their mind. They were like oh wait... you are pretty cool actually. They had no clue that I was trans even when I spoke. I even gave a monologue in front of a hundred people who came to see a panel of lgbt people, and a few people came up to me swearing they had no clue I was a transsexual when they saw me. It's just that trans people who are stealth rarely announce that they are trans to people.
I would imagine if someone built an emotional bond with a girl and were in love they'd see past something like being trans. Maybe the guy would appreciate that she felt so connected to him that she was willing to share something that no one else knows and for which she has had to face scorn over... trusting her bf so much to impart something so heavy.
Growing up, I saw inside guy cliques the whole fear of losing community acceptance. There is such a fear of being considered gay that anything even remotely can be construed as so is faced with a lot of scorn. Girls that happen to be trans won't make you gay. But also just as important, I think a strong guy is not someone who is manly or stoic, but is someone says I don't care what other people think (whether it be playing nerdy games, liking a trans girl, disliking sports, or whatever else). Most people realize, and I did too, that upon leaving high school that high school cliques and social structures means absolutely nothing and is hillariously laughable. Upon entering college, I thought back and was like why was I ever scared or concerned about what those people think? (esp the people that I didn't want to be friends with anyway)
Also remember this is internet land, so those who might feel like ewww NO now, might feel dfferently if they were emotionally invested in their gf and knew them as a person not a societal and media stereotype.
LOLLeviathan_ said:
uhm...i really dont know what i'd do, i'd probably freak out a bit but i'd calm down eventually and think long and hard about what the fuck to do, which if i really really loved her, i might stay with her, otherwise its more then likely drop her ass for lying
Oh boy... This already happened to me a few years ago.
I'd been dating this girl for over a year when I found out via an anonymous and slightly cryptic voice mail. She flat-out denied it at first but was a little too specific in the denial (the message never mentioned it specifically so her protestations about being "a real woman" were a little premature...)
In hindsight there had been a couple of clues along the way but given that she was Southeast Asian she was naturally a bit more androgynous looking (and the B-cup titties from hormones were par for the course) and the surgeon had done an excellent job. Frankly speaking, condoms have sufficient lube on them (in addition to what she probably put on in advance) for the feeling to be just like a very tight girl... The set of dilators she had even came in different sizes to stretch the opening to the right length and diameter. On the bright side there was never a risk of unwanted pregnancy.
I split up with her a few months after, not so much from the initial shock but because of a pattern of dishonesty both before and after the revelation (catching her in small lies about insignificant things) which made me just not want to be around her anymore.
I am happy to report that my current GF knows the whole story, is fine with it (she's bi and used to run the LGBT group for a notable North American university) and has beyond a shadow of a doubt female from birth.
I'd been dating this girl for over a year when I found out via an anonymous and slightly cryptic voice mail. She flat-out denied it at first but was a little too specific in the denial (the message never mentioned it specifically so her protestations about being "a real woman" were a little premature...)
In hindsight there had been a couple of clues along the way but given that she was Southeast Asian she was naturally a bit more androgynous looking (and the B-cup titties from hormones were par for the course) and the surgeon had done an excellent job. Frankly speaking, condoms have sufficient lube on them (in addition to what she probably put on in advance) for the feeling to be just like a very tight girl... The set of dilators she had even came in different sizes to stretch the opening to the right length and diameter. On the bright side there was never a risk of unwanted pregnancy.
I split up with her a few months after, not so much from the initial shock but because of a pattern of dishonesty both before and after the revelation (catching her in small lies about insignificant things) which made me just not want to be around her anymore.
I am happy to report that my current GF knows the whole story, is fine with it (she's bi and used to run the LGBT group for a notable North American university) and has beyond a shadow of a doubt female from birth.
This is one of the many reasons why the 'christian kiss' is so important!
In all seriousness, I would probably be massively shocked if this was with a presumed girlfriend. As an acquaintance/friend, I don't think it would bother me much.
I did 'know' someone online in a gaming community that was transexual or would cross-dress (not too sure either way) and I reacted quite badly to it, but at the time I was a great deal younger. I did end up calling the individual out and apologised for my actions. It wasn't one of my proudest moments.
Also to Zeithri [Editied - or anyone else
] - how is life for you now after the change? (sorry I'm curious - you can blame that on my mother for my nosey streak )
Watch at 1:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8apNuRgWFWo
In all seriousness, I would probably be massively shocked if this was with a presumed girlfriend. As an acquaintance/friend, I don't think it would bother me much.
I did 'know' someone online in a gaming community that was transexual or would cross-dress (not too sure either way) and I reacted quite badly to it, but at the time I was a great deal younger. I did end up calling the individual out and apologised for my actions. It wasn't one of my proudest moments.
Also to Zeithri [Editied - or anyone else
] - how is life for you now after the change? (sorry I'm curious - you can blame that on my mother for my nosey streak )For me, I am a much happier person and don't think of ending my life really anymore. I can look into a mirror without crying and am quite a bit more social. I also see a future instead of deep void of nothingess. As for phsyically, my skin is softer, I have grown breasts, and I have next to no body hair, hormones even change how I smell pheremone wise, fat redistributes to female areas.
Given the nature of your relationship, I think that was a very amicable reaction. Kudos! Also... I would probably react in a very similar manner.Benny Blanco said:
OT:
I would freak out. Honestly, I'm dating a guy? Seriously? Come on.
I don't care much for hormone-induced breasts, or fake vaginas. You conned me into thinking you were a woman, and didn't think to tell me you were not? "Then you would never have given me a chance" - damn right I would not, but that doesn't mean it all "worked out in the end".
The person in question would have been weaving a web of lies. There's no going back on that.
when the transformation is biologically complete - what's the problem? People that are willing to go that far, will most certainly be on the inside, what nature refused them at birth - if surgery fixed that, where's the difference?
Edit: Also for all that 'lies' thing - it certainly depends, but given how most people, even in the open minded nerd colony that is the escapist, react to the matter, isn't it perfectly understandable, to try and establish some kind of relationship, before dropping that bomb?
Edit: Also for all that 'lies' thing - it certainly depends, but given how most people, even in the open minded nerd colony that is the escapist, react to the matter, isn't it perfectly understandable, to try and establish some kind of relationship, before dropping that bomb?
Between this thread and the discussion surrounding "Hey Baby" I can honestly say that I'm pretty disgusted with the Escapist community's discourse of gender right now. While I refrained from commenting on the video game, I have to say that some of the infantile "It's a trap" and "I would puke" comments offend me deeply as a human being with any degree of empathy, and frankly more of you should be too, whether you be transgendered or cisgendered, male, female, or somewhere in between.
Bear with me as I try to pain a picture:
Transpeople in western society often have to sacrifice about as much as it physically, financially, and emotionally possible to sacrifice to attempt to attain even a small modicum of self respect. Before transition being transsexual is a lifetime of self hatred and confusion, depression, and lying through your teeth to everyone around you in order to come close to being a functional member of society.
The process of the transition itself can involve losing your savings, the more reactionary members of your family, friends, religion, employment, or housing. Transition is voluntarily divorcing your past, enduring hardship after hardship in the hope that someday you can wake up and realize that your body is finally your own and not a cosmic joke or twisted nightmare. You do this not for some sexual thrill or because of a fevered disease in your head, but because the only other way for everything to stop hurting is to end your life.
Once you've finally arrived at a place where both you and the strangers around you no longer question your mere existance, you can finally be honest about who you are as a person, and no longer prop yourself up around the lies you supported yourself to pass as your birth gender. The goal of transitioning is to be able to stop lying, but you can't. Your past is a black hole owned by a person that you never were, and to delve into the void brings all the old deceptions you used to live on come back up.
You got into a habit of deception, because you had to act like you weren't a defective person. Even though the hormones have rehabilitated your body and your old handicap finally overcome, the phantom pain still tingles whenever you get too close to your past. You're truly comfortable for the first time in your life, but you're always a little bit wary. You avoid painful subjects and past confrontation, because if you dare to have the audacity to get close enough to someone to share with them the most painful experiences of your entire life, this is how they react to you:
Bear with me as I try to pain a picture:
Transpeople in western society often have to sacrifice about as much as it physically, financially, and emotionally possible to sacrifice to attempt to attain even a small modicum of self respect. Before transition being transsexual is a lifetime of self hatred and confusion, depression, and lying through your teeth to everyone around you in order to come close to being a functional member of society.
The process of the transition itself can involve losing your savings, the more reactionary members of your family, friends, religion, employment, or housing. Transition is voluntarily divorcing your past, enduring hardship after hardship in the hope that someday you can wake up and realize that your body is finally your own and not a cosmic joke or twisted nightmare. You do this not for some sexual thrill or because of a fevered disease in your head, but because the only other way for everything to stop hurting is to end your life.
Once you've finally arrived at a place where both you and the strangers around you no longer question your mere existance, you can finally be honest about who you are as a person, and no longer prop yourself up around the lies you supported yourself to pass as your birth gender. The goal of transitioning is to be able to stop lying, but you can't. Your past is a black hole owned by a person that you never were, and to delve into the void brings all the old deceptions you used to live on come back up.
You got into a habit of deception, because you had to act like you weren't a defective person. Even though the hormones have rehabilitated your body and your old handicap finally overcome, the phantom pain still tingles whenever you get too close to your past. You're truly comfortable for the first time in your life, but you're always a little bit wary. You avoid painful subjects and past confrontation, because if you dare to have the audacity to get close enough to someone to share with them the most painful experiences of your entire life, this is how they react to you:
Angryman101 said:
I guess it turns out you'll never be a real person to them anyway.Wrathful said:
Apologies, your quote has been replaced with another. It is not my goal to be defaming anyone!LightspeedJack said:
MadCat55329 thank you so much for your comments. I feel a lot of the feelings I dealt with growing up and during transition echoed in your post. As for Aariele's question, I find that most people rely on whatever popular media presents to them. Oh, and just seeing a non passing trans person while going to the store doesn't count as actually meeting one.
At a young age, people are forced into gender roles (not just transgender people). Movies, teachers, society says boys do this, girls do that and I think most people can agree that those gender stereotypes are nonsense. Yet, when someone sees another transgress those boundaries (ie changing their sex) people flip since its not conforming to the world view force fed to children.
Someone in an earlier post said something to the effect that they dislike hormone induced breasts, sorry to break it to you, but all secondary sex traits are affected by hormones. All breasts are hormone induced.
I agree with Zannah's comment about wanting someone to get to know you before letting them know. I usually say beforehand so as not to risk being assaulted. After reading many of the comments, it is apparant people have an immediate reaction because of what society told them. I have friends who had no clue I was born looking like a boy, some of them were very anti transgender people and would make stupid 'it's a trap' joke, but when I came out to them, they told me that they had no clue I was trans. They couldn't fathom me being born anything other than a girl because of how I look, act, sound. I was the first trans person they ever met. Now they don't make such stupid jokes and are actually huge supporters because they realized oh wait, trans people are pretty much just like everyone else.
Then some people may bring up the procreation parts as this shows who is a man or woman. First, I like to think men and women are more complex and better than to be reduced to what's between their legs. I have more self respect to not sum up my identity based on that part. Second, there are many children born intersexed and many people don't have just xx or xy chromosomes... how many of you here has done a chromosome test? Third, the brain forms before the parts down there (up to a point everyone has the considered female part). There can be a hiccup in the chromosomes and the like but the brain has developed beforehand. (There was a study comparing trans women brains and cisgender women's brains and found them to be strikingly similar in neuron pathways etc)
Lastly, if not interested in dating a trans person then don't, but just because someone is cisgender doesn't give them the right to say who is female and who is not. You can't just view someone as a non-human because they are different and call trans people 'it' or deny the use of their requested pronouns. That is just like European empiralist in the past viewing other ethnic groups as non-human, no one has a right to deny another's identity.
At a young age, people are forced into gender roles (not just transgender people). Movies, teachers, society says boys do this, girls do that and I think most people can agree that those gender stereotypes are nonsense. Yet, when someone sees another transgress those boundaries (ie changing their sex) people flip since its not conforming to the world view force fed to children.
Someone in an earlier post said something to the effect that they dislike hormone induced breasts, sorry to break it to you, but all secondary sex traits are affected by hormones. All breasts are hormone induced.
I agree with Zannah's comment about wanting someone to get to know you before letting them know. I usually say beforehand so as not to risk being assaulted. After reading many of the comments, it is apparant people have an immediate reaction because of what society told them. I have friends who had no clue I was born looking like a boy, some of them were very anti transgender people and would make stupid 'it's a trap' joke, but when I came out to them, they told me that they had no clue I was trans. They couldn't fathom me being born anything other than a girl because of how I look, act, sound. I was the first trans person they ever met. Now they don't make such stupid jokes and are actually huge supporters because they realized oh wait, trans people are pretty much just like everyone else.
Then some people may bring up the procreation parts as this shows who is a man or woman. First, I like to think men and women are more complex and better than to be reduced to what's between their legs. I have more self respect to not sum up my identity based on that part. Second, there are many children born intersexed and many people don't have just xx or xy chromosomes... how many of you here has done a chromosome test? Third, the brain forms before the parts down there (up to a point everyone has the considered female part). There can be a hiccup in the chromosomes and the like but the brain has developed beforehand. (There was a study comparing trans women brains and cisgender women's brains and found them to be strikingly similar in neuron pathways etc)
Lastly, if not interested in dating a trans person then don't, but just because someone is cisgender doesn't give them the right to say who is female and who is not. You can't just view someone as a non-human because they are different and call trans people 'it' or deny the use of their requested pronouns. That is just like European empiralist in the past viewing other ethnic groups as non-human, no one has a right to deny another's identity.
Melodrama? Yes, that was the way I stated it. That's the point. The only way to even begin to explain this situation is with such intensity, but attempting to dehumanize the transperson is exactly what you're doing.Angryman101 said:
Since I'm a presumptuous asshole, I'll presume that you missed my point. Facing neolithic reactions like this, or distressingly frequent reactions of physical or emotional violence is it a wonder transpeople are cagey about their past?
I imagine you feel hypothetically betrayed, but that "tranny" you're so dismissively disgusted by just shared her most precious secret with you, and your response indicates that you can't think of her as a woman anymore; she's subhuman. I do think one betrayal here is worse than the other.
Besides, speaking as a cisgendred man, that's an awful lot of ado over someone who's effectively merely the victim of one of a number of congenital sterility conditions.
Well, someone I gamed with actually did come out as transsexual to me, so I can tell you exactly how i reacted.
I felt really awkward and confused. Then I asked a whole bunch of silly questions and ended up learning a lot more about the transgendered.
I do have to say that I'd probably feel a little differently if she was my girlfriend. Depending on how involved we were, I might have some trust issues, and as a heterosexual male I'd probably have some hangups about sex, too.
I felt really awkward and confused. Then I asked a whole bunch of silly questions and ended up learning a lot more about the transgendered.
I do have to say that I'd probably feel a little differently if she was my girlfriend. Depending on how involved we were, I might have some trust issues, and as a heterosexual male I'd probably have some hangups about sex, too.
This isn't a fucking writing contest, please stow away the pretentious purple prose and get to the point before I develop cavities from the egregious sugar coating.MadCat55329 said:
Truly, yours is a tortured existence. Good LORD, suck it UP. Everyone has things people rag on them about. Find better company if you're experiencing such horrendous prosecution.
The fact is, it's not a woman. It's a male. You can change all the superficial structures on your body you want, it's still imprinted genetically as a male. They're not subhuman, and I in fact have a number of tranny, gay, lesbian, and crossdressing friends. They're basically required as a resident of San Francisco. As previously stated, I was willfully kept in the dark about these developments and it is far past my comfort zone to be with a person who has attempted to change their gender, romantically and sexually speaking.