Spanking your kids and parenting

[Morderkaine]

Here is one example that sticks out in my mind. A mother and her son are unpacking the car on the first day, and this is what happened.

Mother: charles, will you help me carry your clothes inside?
Kid: Shut up mom, you do it yourself.
Mother: (looks at me) What am I going to do with him?

I'll tell you what to do with him, kick his ass!!

Exactly--you go right from 'do nothing and let him get away with it' to 'kick his ass'.

There's no DEFCON 2 and 3 and 4 in between?

Well hopefully the parents have tried various options. If they havent, well they should. If they have tried and all their options still led to that, they gotta ramp it up, and if the only thing left is spanking, well that kid REALLY deserves it at that point.
Ive seen kids act like that, and way worse, swearing at their parents, etc. That kind of disrespect should never be condoned.
If everything else fails, dont accept defeat and say 'oh well, I tried, he just wont listen', swat em one.

 

[klc0100]

Here is one example that sticks out in my mind. A mother and her son are unpacking the car on the first day, and this is what happened.

Mother: charles, will you help me carry your clothes inside?
Kid: Shut up mom, you do it yourself.
Mother: (looks at me) What am I going to do with him?

I'll tell you what to do with him, kick his ass!!

Exactly--you go right from 'do nothing and let him get away with it' to 'kick his ass'.

There's no DEFCON 2 and 3 and 4 in between?

If you have done everything inbetween talked to them, deprive them of something they enjoy ect and still they tell you to fuck off and throw it back in your face what then.

 

[Lukeje]

Here is one example that sticks out in my mind. A mother and her son are unpacking the car on the first day, and this is what happened.

Mother: charles, will you help me carry your clothes inside?
Kid: Shut up mom, you do it yourself.
Mother: (looks at me) What am I going to do with him?

I'll tell you what to do with him, kick his ass!!

Exactly--you go right from 'do nothing and let him get away with it' to 'kick his ass'.

There's no DEFCON 2 and 3 and 4 in between?

Were you not listening before? We tried punishing this kid all summer to make him behave, but since his mother was so lenient at home he was a disrespectful little **** and nothing got through to him. If your kid listens to you when you tell him to not do something then yay good for you, but sometimes that's not enough. Sometimes physical pain is the only thing he responds to.

He didn't say give NO punishment, he just said that he didn't deserve to be hit.

 

[Evilbunny]

You don't have a lot of experience dealing with children, do you?

I love that reasoning--as if we weren't all children at one point.

Ok no, that's not a valid argument. Just because you were a kid at some point doesn't mean you know how to be a parent to one. When you are the adult you have to do some things that the kid would deem "unfair" or something of the like. You have to punish them when they do wrong because you are the parent and you know better than they do. Kids are far too stupid to make their own decisions. You have to set them on the right path or else they will end up sucking at life.

That's a different point than the one you were making.

I know, I was addressing the invalidity of your argument that since you were a child at some point, you automatically know how to parent one.

That was not my point. My point was that if you were a child, you have a lot of "experience dealing with children"--your agemates.

If anything, parents forget how illogical kids are.

When I said "dealing with children" I meant "making them behave". When you were a kid, was it your job to make your classmates behave?

 

[Lukeje]

So he burns himself, and he learns that way. He'd then take you more seriously in the future (NOTE I am not condoning letting children burn themselves, just pointing out that it seems to be an inevitable consequence of this scenario, as there's no guarantee that even after you hit him, he won't try to do it again).

Hell's teeth, please NEVER have children. I'd rather have a smacked backside than a smoking stump.


Anyway Cheeze, Lukeje, Carl...ante up. What HAVE you done in your past that you've been disciplined for and how was it administered?

My Dad hit me, my Mum didn't. I have a lot more respect for my Mother, for not having to resort to physical violence to keep me in check (and yes, I have younger siblings, I do know how hard it is not to lash out).

 

[Morderkaine]

He didn't say give NO punishment, he just said that he didn't deserve to be hit.

Well if everything else was done and it didnt work... and considering that his misbehavior probably caused more pain and discomfort for the other kids there than a proper diciplinary swat would, he probably did 'deserve' to be hit. Whether thats the proper step to take or not, he probably earned it.

 

[Lukeje]

He didn't say give NO punishment, he just said that he didn't deserve to be hit.

Well if everything else was done and it didnt work... and considering that his misbehavior probably caused more pain and discomfort for the other kids there than a proper diciplinary swat would, he probably did 'deserve' to be hit. Whether thats the proper step to take or not, he probably earned it.

Did the child show lack of discipline? Yes. Was it because he hadn't been hit? No. It was because he hadn't been disciplined. Hitting a child isn't the only way to discipline them.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And the data from when corporal punishment was allowed is... where?

Let's see...1987 it was banned so...tougher to find figures but...

From America : "What experts do know is that the number of truancy cases in the nation's courts has jumped 58 percent between 1985 and 1994, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention." - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20010128/ai_n9981861

From www.francobritishcouncil.org.uk/reports/truancy.doc
Permanent exclusions from school had been measured at between 2,000 and 3,000 annually in the late 1980s so the increase in the decade to 1998 was dramatic - about tenfold.

Few if any available stats on Truancy in those times, but I'd suggest 'record high' sort of adds crecedence.

Again, attacks on teachers statistics are very hard to find but "http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/attacks-on-teachers-rise-to-one-a-day-489931.html" tends to say it all....

 

[Morderkaine]

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about how you think the parent should have been. You make it sound like the only two ways to parent are "lenient" and "ass kicking."

Not really. He said she is too lenient at home. Sadly her lack of parenting has already ruined this kid - hopefully if she smartens up at home he can still be helped. Whatever shes been doing it didnt work, and maybe if she did spank him he might not have ended up the way he was. Maybe not, but it could have worked.

 

[Evilbunny]

When I said "dealing with children" I meant "making them behave". When you were a kid, was it your job to make your classmates behave?

If they were misbehaving by mistreating you, job or not, you better learn to deal with them or they'll keep mistreating you.

Please don't tell me you dealt with bullies by talking to them in an authoritative voice.

 

[Lukeje]

When I said "dealing with children" I meant "making them behave". When you were a kid, was it your job to make your classmates behave?

If they were misbehaving by mistreating you, job or not, you better learn to deal with them or they'll keep mistreating you.

Please don't tell me you dealt with bullies by talking to them in an authoritative voice.

I did. But it may or may not have been helped by my hand being around their throat when I spoke. But those are your peers. Physically abusing a child as an adult is not the same as grabbing by the throat the person that just punched you.
You are saying that because he refused to do what the mother said, she should hit him? That's not like-for-like, that is bullying.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

England banned it in '86 in the regular schools, '99 in the public, right? All those stats are about just the last couple of years. Doesn't really prove anything.

Nope, 87 in all schools.

So we have Carl that never did anything wrong, Cheeze who can't remember doing anything wrong, Lukeje who just loves his mom...Nothing odd there; versus me and a few others that were little bastards until we got a clip round the ear?

So, Carl and Cheeze are arguing against something they never experienced?

Where was I talking about gun crime? Those stats were about finishing high school, I thought.

Yeah...sort of tough to finish school when your classmates are packing heat I'd think?

 

[Lukeje]

So we have Carl that never did anything wrong, Cheeze who can't remember doing anything wrong, Lukeje who just loves his mom...Nothing odd there; versus me and a few others that were little bastards until we got a clip round the ear?

How do you know that you wouldn't have been a better person given the parenting we had?
(And the respect for my Mother isn't Freudian, my sister will tell you the same thing.)

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

How do you know that you wouldn't have been a better person given the parenting we had?[/quote]

Let's just say that I have very direct evidence that I wouldn't be, which I'm not going to divulge on a public forum.

Funny though, in my 18 years of education, I can only remember two occasions when a teacher was attacked. Today that would be less than a week.

Edit : God I hate text at times...I was in no way implying Oedipal complexes Lukeje.