The PS3 and the 'Yellow Light of Death'

[Hitman 43]

Oh great. Something else to contribute to the stupid "Console War".

I HIGHLY doubt that it's the actual PS3's fault. The owners of the ones which broke down probably dropped them, hit them accidently or left them in condensation or something, which eventually damaged it.

The "Yellow Ring Of Death" as it is called by 360 owners so that PS3 owners, who actually argue in the "Console War" (which is a big waste of time), won't be able to bring up the words "Red Ring Of Death".

Facts are, the Red Ring is way more common at a much earlier stage than the Yellow Ring. (Apparently)

You never heard any of this Ring crap from the PS2 or XBOX in the earlier years.

BTW, I play both the PS3 and 360.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Obviously the PS3 failure rates are much lower than 360, I won't argue that, but they are MUCH higher than 1%. Also, if that's such a negligible failure rate, why won't Sony own up? 360, after experiencing the RROD problem, extended a 3 year warranty on all consoles. And the Elites now have a failure rate of less than 4%. Seems to me Microsoft can admit their mistakes and Sony can't.

1-5% failure rates are attributed to 'User induced failure' of which it is not the companies fault for the failures of electronics.

everything from improper storage, transportation, mis-use, damages, etc. things which are beyond the control of sony which occure to devices every day by individuals whom have less care or consideration for the devices they own.

why Microsoft had to own up to their mistakes is because their failure rates pushed into 10 and 11%, which is beyond 'user induced failure' and begins to enter 'Production error' in which the occurances are not the fault because of a users mis-use, but rather the fault occures because a flaw exists with in the product.

as it stands, Sony doesn't admit to a mistake because they havn't made one yet.
unless if PS3s start dying like flies and you see failure rates push into the hundreds of thousands, it isn't really their fault.

So what you're saying is, those 12,500 failures were ALL caused by user abuse or mis-use of the system? That's total BS. Especially when it comes to something like a soldering problem. No matter how small the percentage is, if a particular unit has a manufacturing defect that is found to not be the fault of the user then Sony should own up and replace it for free.

well first off, how do you know?

did they all keep their consoles on an elevated well ventalated open area in a dry atmosphere of aproximatly 67 to 72 degrees f and about 1.5 feet away from other eletronic devices or heat sources?

Hell, do YOU even do that?

even out of users hands, was it shipped properly? was it handled correctly? where they stored in the proper areas, not left in sweltering heat or freezing cold? and so on and so forth.


second off, How do you KNOW it is a solder based problem?
have you opened up a amber lite PS3, whip out your multi-meter, and tag Every single solder joint yourself? have you ran complex diognostics? system reads?

no, you probably haven't.... Nor have the people in these reports.

infact, all they are doing is applying a general solution to an unknown problem. just because the general solution ends up working does not really mean that what it was trying to solve was the problem in the first place.







lastly, all consumer goods have a margin of error which allow for 'unavoidable defects' to happen which are often beyond the capability and control to correct or simply impossible or economically unsound to to permit otherwise. For instance, Peanut butter is allowed 1 Rodent hair for every 100 Grams produced, or so says the US FDA. this is because rodents are so pervasive that it is almost physically impossible to ensure that no one rodent hair ever gets into peanut butter. if you do not believe me, look up the Food Defect Action Levels of the FDA.

this same margin of error exists for all goods, and as it stands, Sony's PS3 falls into that group.

 

[Tron900]

God, this over hyped bullshitness. When has a piece of technology not failed. ALL TECH has a chance of breaking. From Xbox to PS to PC to Ipods.

I don't think thats the point....how come things like the NES, SNES, Mega drive, Master system, all surpassed their warranties. And yet these modern consoles all die on their arses after 6 months?

Apart from the vast amount of processing power compared between the 2, whats changed. I don't see why they all needed to be in such a hurry to skip the real life testing stage of building these consoles.

If it gets too hot, add cooling.

if the solder joints bust, change solder.

if the memory keeps failing, change memory manufacturer.

if the hard drives dies, find a more reliable solution.

If the price is too high...well tough cookie, thats how much it costs, if you want cheap, you get sub standard product.

I hate to say it, we are own enemy here, if we'd just be a little bit more patient, then these things wouldn't happen.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

It seems the 360 haters can't really bash on the RROD now the ps3 has the the YLOD. I read ages ago that ps2's were designed to brake after 3 years but I don't know if it is true.

I don't think so. My family has had a ps2 for... well... When did it come out?
Still fire it up occasionally, for various reasons. (We don't have a ps3, however...)

But then again, we also have a gamecube, XBox Original, 360, and various computers, and none of them have died.
Maybe we just have good luck.

 

[TPiddy]

Obviously the PS3 failure rates are much lower than 360, I won't argue that, but they are MUCH higher than 1%. Also, if that's such a negligible failure rate, why won't Sony own up? 360, after experiencing the RROD problem, extended a 3 year warranty on all consoles. And the Elites now have a failure rate of less than 4%. Seems to me Microsoft can admit their mistakes and Sony can't.

1-5% failure rates are attributed to 'User induced failure' of which it is not the companies fault for the failures of electronics.

everything from improper storage, transportation, mis-use, damages, etc. things which are beyond the control of sony which occure to devices every day by individuals whom have less care or consideration for the devices they own.

why Microsoft had to own up to their mistakes is because their failure rates pushed into 10 and 11%, which is beyond 'user induced failure' and begins to enter 'Production error' in which the occurances are not the fault because of a users mis-use, but rather the fault occures because a flaw exists with in the product.

as it stands, Sony doesn't admit to a mistake because they havn't made one yet.
unless if PS3s start dying like flies and you see failure rates push into the hundreds of thousands, it isn't really their fault.

So what you're saying is, those 12,500 failures were ALL caused by user abuse or mis-use of the system? That's total BS. Especially when it comes to something like a soldering problem. No matter how small the percentage is, if a particular unit has a manufacturing defect that is found to not be the fault of the user then Sony should own up and replace it for free.

well first off, how do you know?

did they all keep their consoles on an elevated well ventalated open area in a dry atmosphere of aproximatly 67 to 72 degrees f and about 1.5 feet away from other eletronic devices or heat sources?

Hell, do YOU even do that?

even out of users hands, was it shipped properly? was it handled correctly? where they stored in the proper areas, not left in sweltering heat or freezing cold? and so on and so forth.


second off, How do you KNOW it is a solder based problem?
have you opened up a amber lite PS3, whip out your multi-meter, and tag Every single solder joint yourself? have you ran complex diognostics? system reads?

no, you probably haven't.... Nor have the people in these reports.

infact, all they are doing is applying a general solution to an unknown problem. just because the general solution ends up working does not really mean that what it was trying to solve was the problem in the first place.







lastly, all consumer goods have a margin of error which allow for 'unavoidable defects' to happen which are often beyond the capability and control to correct or simply impossible or economically unsound to to permit otherwise. For instance, Peanut butter is allowed 1 Rodent hair for every 100 Grams produced, or so says the US FDA. this is because rodents are so pervasive that it is almost physically impossible to ensure that no one rodent hair ever gets into peanut butter. if you do not believe me, look up the Food Defect Action Levels of the FDA.

this same margin of error exists for all goods, and as it stands, Sony's PS3 falls into that group.

So I suppose then, is that the problem is with Sony not being able to identify when it's a manufacturing flaw. At least with the 360 you know that RROD's and E74 error messages are manufacturing flaws and will be covered under warranty. With Sony's little yellow light it's a total crap shoot as to whether or not it's going to cost you to repair it. All I'm saying is that Sony is leaving a bad taste in customer's mouths with this policy. I've had 2 replacement XBoxes, neither of them cost me anything.

I just recently upgraded to an Elite so now I get another 3 year warranty which should last until about the time they start talking about new consoles. I have piece of mind knowing that unless I wilfully damage my system, Microsoft will take care of me. What comforts do Sony owners get? That their system is 'less likely' to break down? After how long? 2 years? 3?

 

[Joos]

Well, considering Sony loses a fair amount of money on every console they sell, I am pretty sure they are doing what they can to prolong the life of their console.

Also, as far as I understand, most faults are with the 1st gen console. If I recall correctly, this generation was phased out rather quickly, being replaced by the 80 and 40 gig version just previous to the slim. It is likely, Sony predicted a few design flaws in the first gen, that they fixed in second generation.

If I had a first gen console, I would be extra careful in where I put it and make sure it doesn't overheat.

 

[Joos]

All I'm saying is that Sony is leaving a bad taste in customer's mouths with this policy. I've had 2 replacement XBoxes, neither of them cost me anything.

Well, on that note, I think I rather have a solid console and average customer service rather than an explosive console and good customer service. Less chance of needing it...

 

[Uncompetative]

Well, I spent £330 on an Xbox 360 which then RROD'd got replaced under warranty, RROD'd again - got replaced again by a refurbished unit. Finally, failing out of warranty for a fault that wouldn't have been covered by Microsoft's free 3-year extended warranty. So, with a measure of trepidation I bought a new Xbox 360 Elite for £194 consoling myself (no pun intended) that I had only really spent 30 pence/day on the last one and it had actually been damn good value. I felt that even if this new Elite RROD'd I would still get replacement cover for 3-years and it would be... what? more like 20 pence/day over that period - after which there would probably be an entirely new console on the market to buy (like a 1080 or something).

Anyhow, I was thrilled to discover that I had received one of the first Elites in the UK with a cooler-running Jasper motherboard.

I had thought these were only just becoming available in the US. The clue is that the back of the machine and the power-supply are 12.1 A

With a 120 GB hard drive holding installations of the cream of my game collection the DVD drive only gets used to check that you legitimately own the game and after that goes quiet - saving mechanical wear and tear and greatly reducing noise.

The date of manufacture is.

13/5/2009

I was unable to see this or the Amp rating through the cut-out hole in the side of the box, so it is really good luck if you happen to get one.

This post isn't intended to knock the PS3 in any way, just to outline a pragmatic alternative. If you can insure your PS3 for 3-5 years I think you should...

 

[TPiddy]

All I'm saying is that Sony is leaving a bad taste in customer's mouths with this policy. I've had 2 replacement XBoxes, neither of them cost me anything.

Well, on that note, I think I rather have a solid console and average customer service rather than an explosive console and good customer service. Less chance of needing it...

My console choice had nothing to do with reliability... I'd rather have a buggy console with great customer service that I play the shit out of than a solid console I'd hardly use....

 

[Pyro Paul]

So I suppose then, is that the problem is with Sony not being able to identify when it's a manufacturing flaw. At least with the 360 you know that RROD's and E74 error messages are manufacturing flaws and will be covered under warranty. With Sony's little yellow light it's a total crap shoot as to whether or not it's going to cost you to repair it. All I'm saying is that Sony is leaving a bad taste in customer's mouths with this policy. I've had 2 replacement XBoxes, neither of them cost me anything.

I just recently upgraded to an Elite so now I get another 3 year warranty which should last until about the time they start talking about new consoles. I have piece of mind knowing that unless I wilfully damage my system, Microsoft will take care of me. What comforts do Sony owners get? That their system is 'less likely' to break down? After how long? 2 years? 3?

you're missing the Entire point.

THERE IS NO MANUFACTURING FLAW.


No one has proven that it is a manfacturing flaw at All, no one has done complex diognostics, hell no one has found the acctual problem which is causing the amber light.


you know why the RROD is covered and often replaced for free?
Some one Broke down the 360 and PROVED it was a Manufacturing Flaw. they proved beyond a doubt that the solder points which connected key components where prone to degrading and detaching.

 

[TPiddy]

So I suppose then, is that the problem is with Sony not being able to identify when it's a manufacturing flaw. At least with the 360 you know that RROD's and E74 error messages are manufacturing flaws and will be covered under warranty. With Sony's little yellow light it's a total crap shoot as to whether or not it's going to cost you to repair it. All I'm saying is that Sony is leaving a bad taste in customer's mouths with this policy. I've had 2 replacement XBoxes, neither of them cost me anything.

I just recently upgraded to an Elite so now I get another 3 year warranty which should last until about the time they start talking about new consoles. I have piece of mind knowing that unless I wilfully damage my system, Microsoft will take care of me. What comforts do Sony owners get? That their system is 'less likely' to break down? After how long? 2 years? 3?

you're missing the Entire point.

THERE IS NO MANUFACTURING FLAW.


No one has proven that it is a manfacturing flaw at All, no one has done complex diognostics, hell no one has found the acctual problem which is causing the amber light.


you know why the RROD is covered and often replaced for free?
Some one Broke down the 360 and PROVED it was a Manufacturing Flaw. they proved beyond a doubt that the solder points which connected key components where prone to degrading and detaching.

So what you're saying is that PS3 owners haven't bothered to prove that there is a manufacturing flaw in the PS3 and instead have just been shelling out for new ones?

 

[DeviousCrypto]

Hmmm... Some people have the worst of luck. I'm on my second 360, but I had my first for alittle over a year, and in that span dropped it three or four times, breaking open the case, and probably other crap. It stilled worked fine after I dropped it those few times, very strange, but then it just randomly RROD on me.

 

[Pyro Paul]

So what you're saying is that PS3 owners haven't bothered to prove that there is a manufacturing flaw in the PS3 and instead have just been shelling out for new ones?

Why are you hellbent on trying to promote a production flaw for the PS3? There is no tangable evidence, no tacit proof, nothing really that even implies a production flaw save for a ubuiquitious fix designed to solve a majority of problems with hardware electronics.


PS3 Owners of broken PS3s are unfortunate individuals whom have had their devices fail for one reason or another. because the exacts behind each are unknown it is impossible to state anything more. the fact that the presentage for these invididuals fall with in the margin of error allowed for a company, there is nothing we can say.

 

[olicon]

This is kind of unrelated, but what do you think about the Slim? It's new, it's cheaper, it's probably not as hot (temperature-wise), so it shouldn't have much problem. However, it's still new tech, and I'm afraid of becoming an "early adopter" per say. I'm thinking of getting it at the end of this year--should I wait a bit longer just to make sure it's all well and good?

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

I'm a self self confessed 360 fan. Now thats out of the way.

I'm on my third xbox. I bought an Elite because apparently they sorted out the problems the old models had... why couldn't they have released a working console in the first place? Now my Elite is starting to pack in (within warranty) & if I chose to get it repaired it'll take upto 3 weeks to get it back. THREE WEEKS.

SONY on the other hand, if your console packs in, have a courier turn up the next day with a replacement console. Thats in or out of warranty. £130 doesn't sound to bad to me considering they replace it NEXT day.

Now I'll pose a question. How comes MS, who released a console that has over 50% fail rate can't match Sony with their repair/replace policy who have about 1% fail rate? (forgive any inaccuracies with figures)

 

[Macgyvercas]

Got my PS3 last Christmas used off Ebay (60 gig) and it has yet to give me a problem. I got a cooling fan for it too, I think it helps a bit.

 

[TPiddy]

I'll be the first one to say that Sony's console is more reliable than the 360, but PS3 fanboys have been playing it up by stating that 360 failure rates are "54%" or some equally ludicrous figure, when in reality it's closer to the 20-35% range and only on 1st and 2nd generation consoles.

So, naturally, when news like this comes out, that PS3's actually do fail, (and I mean, fail, just as completely as the 360 fails, just not nearly as often) then I like to point it out to said PS3 fanboys that their system is not the gift from god they claim it to be.

Also, I will come to the defense of Microsoft since I've had 2 RROD's, have had them both replaced for free, and have never been without my system for more than a week. And, if you can't go without a system for more than a week, god help you. I recently upgraded to an Elite by my own choosing because I got a good deal and was able to sell my old one.

So long as MS keeps pumping out the games I want to play, I'll keep getting 360's, it's that simple.