"Western games don't have good storys"

[Vault101]

Didn´t he just say something along the lines that even "good" game stories are about on the same level as crap 90s action movie ?

Oh and could someone tell me what Video is specifically refered to here ?
In my experience, whenever someone says "basically thats what he said", it more often than not really wasn´t basically what he said.

no Im being serious thats all he siad, he didnt care to elaborate

anyway it was this weeks "Big picture" "Off the charts"

 

[ThreeKneeNick]

If we separated narrative from story i'd say that's about right. Games are simply great at telling stories, but the stories themselves are rarely anything to write home about. Bioware included.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I would extend it to "games in general don't have good stories".

The story is mostly there to connect and add context to a string of action sequences, which is fine...such games live-or-die by their gameplay mechanics anyway.

I've tried to think of examples of games with great stories, and I can't really find any. The closest I can think of would be Max Payne and Bioware's games. But when you think about it, they're really triumphs of character design and development, the events of the games are actually pretty bland and cliche.

Could just be me...

 

[Vault101]

Meh.

All games have bad stories. Regardless of whether they come from east or west.

Even the really good games are only on the level of a mediocre film or book. Bioshock, Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Portal, Half Life 2, Sands of Time, Assassin's Creed, The Longest Journey, whatever.

You can kid yourself all you like but the hard truth is that in terms of storytelling, every single one of them, and any other game you care to name, pales in comparison to a well-written book.

well

games......are......not......books

games.........are.......not......movies

games are interactive, games give you controll over the protagonist, games allow you to experience the action, games bring you into huge worlds to explore,games tell a story not alywas through a cutscene but through interaction, through the environment

games can have good storys, even better than a book or movie I stand by that

ohh but Im kidding myself arnt I?

 

[Triangulon]

The only argument in favour of Movie Bob here is that it is less a case of 'most western games have shit stories' and more 'most games have shit stories'.

However, even taking away the so-called cliche stories (as if that automatically makes them bad) of Mass Effect and Dragon Age, what about Portal, Half-Life 2, Baldur's Gate (2 in particular), System Shock (and 2), Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, KOTOR, Deus Ex or Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis? Hell, even TIE Fighter had an awesome story.

I won't comment too much on eastern games as I haven't played many however I would bet that just like western games there are a number of good stories amongst the generic dross.

To some up: MORE GOOD STORIES PLEASE

 

[Vault101]

I would extend it to "games in general don't have good stories".

The story is mostly there to connect and add context to a string of action sequences, which is fine...such games live-or-die by their gameplay mechanics anyway.

I've tried to think of examples of games with great stories, and I can't really find any. The closest I can think of would be Max Payne and Bioware's games. But when you think about it, they're really triumphs of character design and development, the events of the games are actually pretty bland and cliche.

Could just be me...

well I think its unfair to compare games to other media

also If a story makes me care about the charachters, if a story leaves me dying to know what happens next, if a story shocks me, makes me laugh or cry then I think its a good story

and Ive had that in more than one game

 

[Vault101]

Sturgeon's Law. That's all I have to say on this matter.

But if youb want the longer veriosn:
Both he and you are both grossly generalizing on the west and east respecitvely. If you want to make the arguement that all JRPGs have crap stories, I could just as quickly say that most FPS games have crap stories. For every Chrono Trigger and Modern Warfare, there's at least 50 FFXIIIs and Homefronts. Don't go using Bioware either, or I can use Atlus. There is no superior storyteller.

And honestly, I was disgusted that the Escapist, a community that prides itself on their intelligence in gaming discussion, took one single line from a video about movie adaptations of videogames, and took it as a chance to turn it into the age ol' flamewar of East vs West.

theres no flaming here about east vs west what are you talking about?

anyway that was NOT my intention, from what I remember it was somthing that Moviebob said without even explaining and I found it rather strange

 

[ajemas]

Bioshock and Half-Life, in my opinion, show how storytelling should be done in a game. The exposition is weaved seamlessly into the narrative, with the player controlling how much depth they go into the story. You could play through Half-Life 2 without finding out much of the story, or you can analyze the graffiti, listen to dialog, or explore old newspaper clippings to discover much more than is immediately apparent. These are just off of the top of my head, but I could list much more if I wanted to.
I'm starting to think that MovieBob is being deliberately controversial. He's stating things that are plainly wrong, but he is a very smart guy.

 

[Woodsey]

A lot of western games have shit stories.

A lot also have good and great stories, and others have great storytelling too. Take KotOR 2, the jumbled mess that it is. If you look at what the story is SUPPOSED to be, its really quite clever, but the way its put together is such an abomination that it ruins much of it.

Him saying Uncharted 2 was like a third-rate National Treasure film was just stupid though - the game is very well-written, and its story is supposed to be a classic adventure, and that's what it does wonderfully.

Honestly, Bob's gone off the deep end a bit recently. That whole PC gaming video was so retarded you'd need a *insert witty remark here* to make sense of it.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Ok Bob what the hell are you talking about?

anyway If you havnt seen MovieBobs video basically thats what he said

now dont get me wrong Im not about to go ranting about Moviebob even after all the crazy stuff he said about PC gaming dying I dont have to agree with him all the time to respect his opionion (no not in that case however, that just felt like trolling)

anyway If by that perhaps he means that when it comes Down to it most games storys are not the complex and are generally at B movie level, then yes I can sort of understand where he's coming from

however I still think plenty of games have good storys and sure I dont ask much from videogame storys other than they keep me interested at least

but what alternitive is he talking about? JRPG's? yeah because we know how highly regarded they are around thease parts....."especially" for their storys

that said how ever I dont know much about Japanese games

Umn not having much if not a lot of knowledge of Japanese gaming kinda puts your point towards a biased opinion but i understand what your going for.

I get sick a lot of the time from both japanese and western stories mainly because they have a massive broad outline of who is good and who is evil with not many characters that arn't in the good or evil standpoint.

 

[Zhukov]

Meh.

All games have bad stories. Regardless of whether they come from east or west.

Even the really good games are only on the level of a mediocre film or book. Bioshock, Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Portal, Half Life 2, Sands of Time, Assassin's Creed, The Longest Journey, whatever.

You can kid yourself all you like but the hard truth is that in terms of storytelling, every single one of them, and any other game you care to name, pales in comparison to a well-written book.

well

games......are......not......books

games.........are.......not......movies

games are interactive, games give you controll over the protagonist, games allow you to experience the action, games bring you into huge worlds to explore,games tell a story not alywas through a cutscene but through interaction, through the environment

games can have good storys, even better than a book or movie I stand by that

ohh but Im kidding myself arnt I?

Yes, that is true.

However, my point is that games are not as good at telling stories in a game-like manner as movies are at telling stories in a movie-like manner. Err... that was a really awkward sentence. But I think you see what I am trying to say.

The problem stems, ironically enough, from the nature of gameplay. All games end up having to pause the story to let the player shoot some people in the face (western games) or line up opposite some people and politely take turns smacking each other (eastern games).

Once they can make games that tell a good story, one with characters and plot twists and all that, entirely through gameplay then we will really be getting somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy game stories. All those games I listed in my first post? I loved every single one of them. But when I compare their stories to, say, the Discworld novels or Tolstoy's War and Peace... well, they come up lacking.

PS. The "kidding yourself" remark was not aimed at you specifically.

 

[Jatyu]

What is a good story?

Like... How do you define "good".

Does entertaining mean good?
Does interesting mean good?
Does original mean good?

"Good" is completely subjective.
So if someone says they think something is "good", that is automatically their opinion.

And EVERYONES OPINION IS CORRECT.

 

[carpathic]

I have yet to play an "eastern" game I like even remotely...Have to disagree with Moviebob here.

 

[Vibhor]

Was he tripping on mushrooms when GTA 4 and RDR got released.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

STORIES! STORIES! STORIES, DAMMIT!

This needs to be quoted by everyone who posts here until the OP figures out how to spell "stories".

Anyway, yeah, I disagree with 'ol Bob on this one, which is pretty rare. But whatever... he's the movie guy, and in that respect, he knows what he's talking about. I don't have to repect his opinions on video games.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

Spoiler: I disagree

I really really disagree.

And I think valve would disagree too.

 

[Gitty101]

Bioware.

Wups there goes everything Bob claimed right out the window.

This. Another case closed my dear Watson...

 

[Rayne870]

Bioware.

Wups there goes everything Bob claimed right out the window.

Bob even liked Avatar so it's not as if he's got much credibility anyway

Exactly this.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Well isn't good just a matter of perspective?

I think a lot of western games have good stories (At first I thought you mean the genre western, in which case they have great stories) and some Eastern games have crap stories, and vice versa.

But who cares if Moviebob says one thing you disagree with, maybe he's right and maybe he's wrong, that's just a matter of perspective too.

 

[Lord Deathray]

I rather like 'Bob' when he's talking about, well movies or even just cinema in general, thus the whole 'MovieBob' pseudonym. When it comes to games however... yeah, I find myself disagreeing with him as often as not. Still, isn't this nitpicking a little? I don't recall Bob every making any outright statements to this effect, though I could be mistaken.

Besides, what qualifies as Western? Anything not Japan? Because America is to the East of Japan, not West. Or are we going by ye olden Britannia empire standards where the West is America and the East Asia, with Europe being the center of it all? Because while that makes sense, whenever this whole 'jrpg wrpg' thing pops up, more often than not it's really everyone vs Japan.

And even putting all that technical crap aside, it's pure nonsense. I can think of games the world wide with amazingly good storytelling, this isn't a national trait. Certainly if you're into that anime stuff then Japan is where you're going to find your personal preference story-wise. But to just ignore everything else, well, that's just silly.

Hmm... Lets see where some of my favourite stories come from in games. Points to anyone who can guess the developers, even more if you guess the games.

Norway? Nice.
California USA? Whoa.
Alberta Canada? Groovy.
Poland? Go figure!
Massachusetts USA? nowai!
Quebec Canada? Pourquoi pas!

Etc Etc. Good times, good times indeed!

Well Norway is Dreamfall or The Longest Journey by Funcom
Poland is The Witcher by CD Projekt
Thats what I got whitout checking Wikipedia.