"Western games don't have good storys"

[twigg]

Half Life has a great story, reasonably original, amazing characters and real growth and depth to not only the characters, but also to the world itself. It is almost incidental that HL1 and 2 are also amazing shooters with great environmental puzzles and the beginning of real physics in games, because the story is so well told.

 

[Tomo Stryker]

Meh.

All games have bad stories. Regardless of whether they come from east or west.

Zhukov, I'm going to agree with you on this. But I would like to pause the bashing from both sides to ask, "What would be an example of a good story?". Also since were bashing bad plot, (and I totally regret doing this) does the Half Life and other Valve created games also count as part of the, "Bad Story" genre?

The first Half Life is pretty much "You're a scientist, aliens have invaded your lab, here's a gun, go get them"

It's a really fun game (in fact more fun than the second in my opinion) but the story is kinda stupid.

You sir, are correct. I really don't care for the Half Life series (except for the first), but so many people are Half Life fanboys. Just wanted to hear an example of a good story.

 

[mireko]

Resident Evil is a much more fleshed out and well written story then Mass Effect...

Oh wow, this post is a sheer derpgasm.

Mass Effect has an excellent story, and if you think it's all about the main antagonist's motivation then you need to sit down and re-evaluate your life.

And the plot of Resident Evil is "evil corporation makes zombies because science".

neither do eastern games.

No game *ever* has a good story period. PS:T was only a decent enough; the rest is mediocre or worse.
Watch a movie or read a book instead, especially if your game is linear as fuck aswell.

Going to have to disagree with this. Most movies and books are fucking terrible, and the fact that a lot of games have bad stories is just the ocean of bad writers bleeding through. Just because a medium delivers a story in a fundamentally different way from the format you prefer, doesn't mean the story itself is any weaker.

Quantifying a story's quality as a good story is kind of subjective and impossible. Torment, for instance, is very well-written, engaging and compelling. I call that a good story. Maybe you, personally need to watch it to enjoy it, I don't know, but this bias that game stories are inherently weaker just annoys me.

 

[veloper]

Resident Evil is a much more fleshed out and well written story then Mass Effect...

Oh wow, this post is a sheer derpgasm.

Mass Effect has an excellent story, and if you think it's all about the main antagonist's motivation then you need to sit down and re-evaluate your life.

And the plot of Resident Evil is "evil corporation makes zombies because science".

neither do eastern games.

No game *ever* has a good story period. PS:T was only a decent enough; the rest is mediocre or worse.
Watch a movie or read a book instead, especially if your game is linear as fuck aswell.

Going to have to disagree with this. Most movies and books are fucking terrible, and the fact that a lot of games have bad stories is just the ocean of bad writers bleeding through. Just because a medium delivers a story in a fundamentally different way from the format you prefer, doesn't mean the story itself is any weaker.

Torment has a better story than Battle: LA, so the argument that [movie/book stories] > [game stories] is completely invalid right off the bat.

Quantifying its quality as a good story is kind of subjective and impossible. It's very well-written, engaging and compelling. I call that a good story. Maybe you, personally need to watch it to enjoy it, I don't know, but this bias that game stories are inherently weaker just annoys me.

So don't read a bad book, but read a good one.
The point being good books > the best game stories.

 

[mireko]

So don't read a bad book, but read a good one.
The point being good books > the best game stories.

That's irrelevant. You were saying that all games have bad stories.

Even if there are books with better stories than the best games, that doesn't mean those games have bad stories.

If you had said that books had better stories than games on average, then sure, but there are games with good stories, so your main argument was invalid.

 

[jboking]

Bioware.

Wups there goes everything Bob claimed right out the window.

Coming up with Bioware stories is as easy as a flow chart (Yes, I know it's not a flow chart)

Western games generally have pretty 'meh' tier stories. Uncharted 2 is okay and Bioshock is equally okay. The only one that really stands out in the story department that I can remember was Deus Ex, but one game cannot justify an entire region of shit. The real issue is that the East is the same way. Most of their games stories are interesting, but told horribly.

It would be more apt to say, Video Games stories are generally crap.

 

[veloper]

So don't read a bad book, but read a good one.
The point being good books > the best game stories.

That's irrelevant. You were saying that all games have bad stories.

Even if there are books with better stories than the best games, that doesn't mean those games have bad stories.

If you had said that books had better stories than games on average, then sure, but there are games with good stories, so your main argument was invalid.

Mediocre or worse.
There are no games with good stories. There are good books and good stories.
Play games for the gameplay.

 

[CommanderKirov]

And? Most of the Eastern stories make very little sence and are often featuring preposterous characters that lack something. (For example Human emotions)

 

[mjc0961]

1. I can think of plenty of western games that have good stories.
2. I can think of plenty of eastern games that have shit stories.

What exactly is the point of saying games from one region of the world don't have good stories? If anyone did say that, they'd be wrong, and it's not like the other side of the world is doing all that better in terms of the good to crap ratio. Sure, the west might have put out crap like Command and Conquer 4 and inFamous, but the east has put out crap like Sonic Adventure 2 and Final Fantasy 13. Trying to say one side has better stories is the other is just pointless; both sides have their gems and their mountainous piles of crap by comparison.

And I don't care what bob said or didn't said. Those are my thoughts when I saw the topic title. If that has no relevance to whatever bob was saying or not saying, don't care. I'm not talking about him and his statements right now.

 

[mireko]

So don't read a bad book, but read a good one.
The point being good books > the best game stories.

That's irrelevant. You were saying that all games have bad stories.

Even if there are books with better stories than the best games, that doesn't mean those games have bad stories.

If you had said that books had better stories than games on average, then sure, but there are games with good stories, so your main argument was invalid.

Mediocre or worse.
There are no games with good stories. There are good books and good stories.
Play games for the gameplay.

In games, stories affect and are a part of the gameplay. I'm not just talking about cutscenes, you know.

Anyway, how are you defining a good story? My definition has always been one that evokes an emotion or makes me think, and there have been many great games with excellent stories that have accomplished just that. I would not call those stories mediocre or worse, because they worked, often better than many of the movies or books I've experienced.

So, no. I still disagree. You're welcome to do the same.

 

[mireko]

Bioware.

Wups there goes everything Bob claimed right out the window.

Bob even liked Avatar so it's not as if he's got much credibility anyway

If you watch the Review of it, he said the story is tired and cliche, so he didnt like it for the story. Good try though.

OT: He has a point. Western games' stories are all really bland when you look at it on paper, but the immersion into them is stunningly good it makes you look past it.

meanwhile (and contrary to what most people would say), in Eastern games, the stories can be varied and complex after working from the basic level, but the way its told and immersion into it seems bland and hard to find after its saturated in angst, pointy hair, and melodrama.

He liked Boondock Saints 2, Red Riding Hood, Repo Men, Splice, Predators and Machete too.

I kept waiting for the punchline in his BS2 review, but it never came. That's when I realized he loves shitty movies.

 

[Snake Plissken]

but what alternitive is he talking about? JRPG's? yeah because we know how highly regarded they are around thease parts....."especially" for their storys

that said how ever I dont know much about Japanese games

I'm not sure he was suggesting an alternative. Western game stories were the ones in question at the time.

I'm not trying to defend him by any means...we all know which team he's playing for in the West vs. East game. He doesn't really keep that a secret. But he'd be a fool not to admit that 99.9% of Eastern stories suck just as hard.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

Planescape: Torment.
If you didn't enjoy it, that's just like, your opinion man.
But it most definitely had a good story. One that was well told too. And was mighty enjoyable.

Also, you could summon a portal and a gigantic energy-cannon-type-thingy would shoot a massive beam of fuckall through it to annihilate anything you point it at. And this is just one of the cooler spells. After witnessing these spells in action, you just kinda realize how avarage and tame most spells are in videogames nowadays. (am looking at you, Dragon Age)
(The second part of the post is not relevant to the thread, but it's just something that occured to me and I HAD TO SHARE IT with other people who probably don't care, because I MUST get atten-shun. It is the only thing that sustains my shoddy existence.)

 

[NathLines]

I'd say that it's the settings that are wrong with western RPGs(so much generic fantasy), while their stories/narrative are good. While in a JRPG, the settings are great(IMO) but the stories/narrative doesn't hold up.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Snip

But how many of those are touted for their stories, or how many did he say had excellent stories?

Also, Splice and machete were rather good movies, and Predators was pretty oka too.

 

[JoeThree]

Finally y'all are wising up. I cannot wait for Extra Credit's fall from grace.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

The reason most games have "bad" stories is precisely because they're games. Everything I've played that is trying to tell a more complicated story, such as the Metal Gear Solid games, are abysmally dull because so much of the game is taken up with exposition and stupid cutscenes. Also, such games tend to be linear beyond belief. I don't play video games to watch movies. I watch movies to do that. I wish gamers and critics like Bob would shut up about story in games. Tetris has zero story, and is the mos successful puzzle game, and perhaps game in general, of all time. I just want to have fun.

 

[mireko]

Snip

But how many of those are touted for their stories, or how many did he say had excellent stories?

Also, Splice and machete were rather good movies, and Predators was pretty oka too.

Oh, like that. Sorry, I thought we were discussing his taste in movies.

[sub]Maybe I shouldn't lunge into conversations.[/sub]

 

[Zhukov]

The reason most games have "bad" stories is precisely because they're games. Everything I've played that is trying to tell a more complicated story, such as the Metal Gear Solid games, are abysmally dull because so much of the game is taken up with exposition and stupid cutscenes. Also, such games tend to be linear beyond belief. I don't play video games to watch movies. I watch movies to do that. I wish gamers and critics like Bob would shut up about story in games. Tetris has zero story, and is the mos successful puzzle game, and perhaps game in general, of all time. I just want to have fun.

(Emphasis added.)

I hear that a lot.

But what if I find a good story to be fun?

What if I have more fun with a combination of story and gameplay then just gameplay?

 

[Vibhor]

Finally y'all are wising up. I cannot wait for Extra Credit's fall from grace.

Extra Credit is more focused on game development instead of y'know movie and shit.
Any word about video games that comes out from moviebob is 90% of the times going to be shit.

The reason most games have "bad" stories is precisely because they're games. Everything I've played that is trying to tell a more complicated story, such as the Metal Gear Solid games, are abysmally dull because so much of the game is taken up with exposition and stupid cutscenes. Also, such games tend to be linear beyond belief. I don't play video games to watch movies. I watch movies to do that. I wish gamers and critics like Bob would shut up about story in games. Tetris has zero story, and is the mos successful puzzle game, and perhaps game in general, of all time. I just want to have fun.

To tell you the truth, the MGS story was pretty good , in a non serious way.
It was full of shit and bullshit but whenever I played that game, it was the story first and the gameplay second that kept me going on. Kojima is a brilliant guy, he made shit seem like diamond. Though I cannot comment on MGS4 as the game,in my eyes, wasn't stealth enough.
Story can improve the game considerably but that depends upon gameplay mechanics. For e.g. The story in Just Cause 2 is absurd at best but the game is so frikkin fun that you can do nothing but laugh at everything it sends at you.