Why all the hate for TOR?

[Frotality]

it so much that it looks bad more than me simply hoping its bad.

KOTOR was made, and it was great. obsidian made KOTOR2, and they fucked up what couldve been an awesome game if they just fucking finished making it before releasing it. and then....bioware decides to make an MMO in the same mythos, though 300 years later so they dont have to connect to the unresolved story of 1 and 2.

pretty much the same reason i hate the left 4 dead series. whatever the game's merits, i simply cannot get over the fact that it isnt HL2 ep3 that Valve is supposed to be making. likewise, TOR is not KOTOR3 and it never will be despite whatever ham-handed methods they use to try and tie it to the original plot to shut up fans. not to mention its taking an acclaimed series based on single player RPG-ness and making it an MMO, which for me is like making an FPS series into a racing game. i despise MMOs, and for turning a great series into one, TOR must die.

fortunately, im sure it will die. big budget MMO trying to overthrow WoW? trying to sell on the star wars license? it failed horribly with SW:Galaxies, hopefully it will with TOR so bioware will stop ruining the already dead series.

 

[Coldie]

How do you know what the story will be for the different classes? You don't have anything to support these claims except what other MMOs have done in the past but is not at all a requirement for the genre. As for "everyone playing the same story" you obviously haven't even went so far as to read the mission statement behind the development of TOR. It is being developed with that in mind and intentionally offering multiple stories. As in playing a different class isn't just a different wall of text but a different quest line.

The story for each member of a class will be the same. They will have the selection of identical companions with preset names (as opposed to randomly generated). And I'm expecting that something like 90% of the game's content will be shared by all the classes. A jedi knight and a smuggler will probably have different questgivers and could even have different objectives and rewards, while the darksiders will likely view the quest from an entirely different angle, but in the end, the location and the situation will be the same for them all. The presentation might differ, but content will not.

Some unique class-specific quests here and there, of course, but the majority of the content has to be shared. You can't make an MMO without Multiplayer and that requires sharing. You can't play with your friends if they spend all their time doing their class-specific quests and the only place you can see other players is Coruscant's Marketplace. The game already looks enough like a single-player game (with some other people getting in your way and ruining the experience/immersion/whatever) without making it 8 isolated mini-games.

And hey, making content for one class means only 12.5% of the players will see it. Making it available to everyone makes that 100% for pretty much the same cost. It's in the players' and the developers' best interest to make as fewer class-specific areas and dungeons as possible.

 

[Nimcha]

it so much that it looks bad more than me simply hoping its bad.
snip

And yet the rest of your post contradicts this statement...

 

[Bat Vader]

I am really looking forward to Star Wars: The Old Republic. I think it is going to be great. I think I might use a Sith character when I get the game.

 

[Direbetus]

It's yet another WoW clone, except one with a huge budget. For some people that's an awesome game. For others, it's boring and they would rather see something innovative in the MMO market, like The Secret World is trying to do. I'm in the latter camp.

You can't expect people to reinvent the wheel everytime. The game isn't going to be innovative on the battle part, it's going to be in the story part. You should go out and buy the latest PC Gamer where they played the first six hours of the game, y'know, instead of talking about shit you don't have a clue of. Makes things better for all of us.

 

[Direbetus]

Bioware game with beautifully scripted storyline Score 10.
Tedious leveling that comes with MMORPGs -2
The fact that every character really follows the same story, so its a bunch of clones running around with different names and stats, but really accomplishing the same goals and quests. -3
Less of a 'play like your a person in the starwars universe' more 'YOU ARE THE HERO, YOU ARE LEGENDARY, BUT OH WAIT, SO IS EVERYONE!!! Garbage they are preaching almost every dev interview. -3

Game gets a score of 2 out of 10 = FAIL

Yeah, that's good. This way I'll laugh even more at you when you notice that you're wrong in pretty much everything you said. The storyline is not scripted, you make your own decisions in many of the quests for an instance.

 

[unacomn]

I wouldn't go as far as to call it hate, but dislike, disappointment and pessimism, yes.
The main reason is because people wanted a singleplayer KoTOR to continue the story.
The other, and my personal peeve, it's being marketed for an audience that SOE tried to attract and ended up almost ruining Star Wars Galaxies.

 

[Jandau]

Hate for TOR? What hate? 90% of all hate for that game is generic MMO hate, not anything directed at TOR. Of the remaining 10%, 9% is just people who wanted KOTOR3 and think that would have happened if Bioware didn't go for TOR (it wouldn't have).

 

[Ossian]

Bioware game with beautifully scripted storyline Score 10.
Tedious leveling that comes with MMORPGs -2
The fact that every character really follows the same story, so its a bunch of clones running around with different names and stats, but really accomplishing the same goals and quests. -3
Less of a 'play like your a person in the starwars universe' more 'YOU ARE THE HERO, YOU ARE LEGENDARY, BUT OH WAIT, SO IS EVERYONE!!! Garbage they are preaching almost every dev interview. -3

Game gets a score of 2 out of 10 = FAIL

Yeah, that's good. This way I'll laugh even more at you when you notice that you're wrong in pretty much everything you said. The storyline is not scripted, you make your own decisions in many of the quests for an instance.

You can't have "non scripted" and "voice acted" in the same category, even if you have like 10 different branches for a story, its still scripted events. Only a self thinking AI can generate a non scripted event.

 

[Ridgemo]

bioware is taking a new spin on mmo's making it more single player based and continuing on the kotor backstory for a more story based approach to things, in which, this is drawing from a new market and different from wow.

Surely the whole point of an MMO is the multiplayer, otherwise they could just make a single player game and release DLC. Without a good endgame this game will not do to well because people will complete the story and be done with it. MMO's make most of their money off of long paying subscriptions.

As for TOR, i wish it all the best, i'm not fussed either which way. I don't think that because Bioware made it that means it'll be the best thing since sliced bread, but there we go.

Just have to wait and see.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I've such more positive opinions than bad.

 

[hyperdrachen]

1. It's Star wars for gods sake, we already had an MMO, it wasn't that successful, this IP needs to die with dignity already, if it has any left that is.
2. Bioware has Mass Effect as a perfect MMO setting available immediately yet they're doing Star Wars, the only reason for this is financial security, usually I wouldn't mind but this is Bioware we're talking about, probably the best developer studio at the moment, if they won't take risks, who will?

I do agree that I personally would be more excited about a mass effect mmo. Offers up a unique combat and progression system and is not a dead horse IP. I don't have any real hate for this game though, but I don't really like what MMOs generally do to my life when i start one.

 

[Savagezion]

How do you know what the story will be for the different classes? You don't have anything to support these claims except what other MMOs have done in the past but is not at all a requirement for the genre. As for "everyone playing the same story" you obviously haven't even went so far as to read the mission statement behind the development of TOR. It is being developed with that in mind and intentionally offering multiple stories. As in playing a different class isn't just a different wall of text but a different quest line.

The story for each member of a class will be the same. They will have the selection of identical companions with preset names (as opposed to randomly generated). And I'm expecting that something like 90% of the game's content will be shared by all the classes. A jedi knight and a smuggler will probably have different questgivers and could even have different objectives and rewards, while the darksiders will likely view the quest from an entirely different angle, but in the end, the location and the situation will be the same for them all. The presentation might differ, but content will not.

That makes a lot more sense than what I got from the guy I had quoted. I agree with a lot of it and can definitely see that as a possible outcome in all of this. I too have seen stuff like this toted and then something like you describe surfaces. The ONLY reason I think this may end up being different is the fact that it is BioWare who are known for allowing player choice to add weight to their character. I am not saying that MUST be a factor but it is something I am interested in seeing the actual outcome to it. It is also only speculation but I feel it holds enough validity. Bioware has stressed how much they want each character to have a unique feel to them. That is sort of a vague answer in this regard but more info will be released soon probably about it.

Some unique class-specific quests here and there, of course, but the majority of the content has to be shared. You can't make an MMO without Multiplayer and that requires sharing. You can't play with your friends if they spend all their time doing their class-specific quests and the only place you can see other players is Coruscant's Marketplace. The game already looks enough like a single-player game (with some other people getting in your way and ruining the experience/immersion/whatever) without making it 8 isolated mini-games.

And hey, making content for one class means only 12.5% of the players will see it. Making it available to everyone makes that 100% for pretty much the same cost. It's in the players' and the developers' best interest to make as fewer class-specific areas and dungeons as possible.

That is definitely a concern when making a single player game but in an MMO this doesn't keep as much weight. Most people make multiple characters to explore the classes in a game rather than just play through once. There is a lot of merit to that in designing one in my opinion and I like to think Bioware is aware of this. I am not saying this is definitely the case but based off of what has been said so far that is the impression I get personally from them. At this point though both sides are speculating based on perception. The idea I think being presented here is an MMO doesn't need to share content in the same way a multiplayer online campaign system does. MMOs actually have the room and the player incentive already there to take a game and expand it outwards rather than inwards through most of the content. It would ultimately have to come together towards the end but that is a great place to have PvP step over the priority of PvE in content. Where PvP result actually effect server status, not some ridiculous "battlegrounds" for points system but rather a "battlegrounds" for your particular side's (empire vs. republic) benefit.

 

[Woodsey]

There's only one personnal thing that bothers me: Bioware not making KOTOR 3. Not only that, but They said that TOR is KOTOR 3, 4 , 5 and 6...

I'm going to say "dick move guys".

And how does that make TOR bad? I'd say Bioware has been planning this for a while. Probably why they didn't make KOTOR2 themselves (for all that that means). I think what they are trying to say there is that this game is the size of 5 or 6 or more KOTOR games. Besides it does continue the story of KOTOR and you can play solo from what I've heard. Where's the problem?

I believe they didn't KotOR 2 because they had Mass Effect in the pipeline (and they must have been beginning to create the Dragon Age lore back then too).

OT: It's going to fix the thing I hate about MMOs, by putting a single player game into that space, and having it fully-voiced.

BioWare + Star Wars + Money = fuck yes.

So what if they haven't made an MMO before? I do believe the makers of a certain most-popular-MMO-ever hadn't made one before that.

 

[northeast rower]

Honestly, I just want KOTOR 3.

 

[Buizel91]

So what if they haven't made an MMO before? I do believe the makers of a certain most-popular-MMO-ever hadn't made one before that.

Thank thy lord in heaven i aint the only one who thought that!

OT: I have seen hate for it, but they are mostly pissed because it isn't Kotor 3 or it's just simply "another MMO"

I would love that in 3 years TOR was sitting up there with WoW...might shut a few people up.

 

[Buizel91]

Bioware game with beautifully scripted storyline Score 10.
Tedious leveling that comes with MMORPGs -2
The fact that every character really follows the same story, so its a bunch of clones running around with different names and stats, but really accomplishing the same goals and quests. -3
Less of a 'play like your a person in the starwars universe' more 'YOU ARE THE HERO, YOU ARE LEGENDARY, BUT OH WAIT, SO IS EVERYONE!!! Garbage they are preaching almost every dev interview. -3

Game gets a score of 2 out of 10 = FAIL

Yeah, that's good. This way I'll laugh even more at you when you notice that you're wrong in pretty much everything you said. The storyline is not scripted, you make your own decisions in many of the quests for an instance.

You can't have "non scripted" and "voice acted" in the same category, even if you have like 10 different branches for a story, its still scripted events. Only a self thinking AI can generate a non scripted event.

Tell Bioware that...

 

[quiet_samurai]

Bioware game with beautifully scripted storyline Score 10.
Tedious leveling that comes with MMORPGs -2
The fact that every character really follows the same story, so its a bunch of clones running around with different names and stats, but really accomplishing the same goals and quests. -3
Less of a 'play like your a person in the starwars universe' more 'YOU ARE THE HERO, YOU ARE LEGENDARY, BUT OH WAIT, SO IS EVERYONE!!! Garbage they are preaching almost every dev interview. -3

Game gets a score of 2 out of 10 = FAIL

A-fucking-men brother.

Only you forgot one thing; Not Knights of the Old Republic 3, -10

So the actual score? -8 out of 10. Not to mention that they blatantly screwed over the original storyline by just saying in the TOR website a while ago that Revan 'failed' in his quest.

...That's it? Two fucking brilliant games worth of story and THAT'S what you give us for closure? Fuck you Bioware, Fuck you.


If it weren't for Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I would absolutely dispise them at this point.

because the world revolves around our needs right I mean your engaging in self pity over a video game you win the pathedic person of the day award.

you condemn the game before it even comes otu and are not even going to give it a chance despite bio ware excellent recond because you want to have a i hate mmorpgs cring fest

Bioware's record gives it a 10, added crappy mmorpg elements diminishes that. You can't just say a dev house that has made outstanding singleplayer RPG games will make a MMORPG game that will be of the same quality.

That is like saying just because someone is good at making novels, they could automatically direct movies just as well. Sure both jobs are telling a story, but talent doesn't transfer that way.

It also doesn't mean that it's going to automatically suck either, why dont you wait until it comes out before getting all premature everywhere.

OT: I am looking forward to this game, I have my reservations, but I am most likely going to give it a try. And the hate I see is either super fan boys that hate anything SW that has come out after 1983, MMO haters, or people that can't get over the fact that there is no KOTOR 3 coming ut in the forseeable future. So.... pretty much crybabies not getting exactly what they want.